The Big Picture: A Disturbance In The Force

Your Gaffer

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Oct 10, 2012
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Can you keep your stupid accent consistent? If you want to keep it in your videos, keep it. If you want to downplay the accent, downplay the accent.

Just keep it friggin' consistent!

I don't mean to call it stupid, it is just grating to not be able to anticipate what I will hear. It grating on the ears for me.
 

Anchupom

In it for the Pub Club cookies
Apr 15, 2009
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There was a point raised in the recent Escapist Podcast about how these two essentially different franchises being brought together under the same artistic vision.

And although I don't mind "Jabrams" (as I've started calling him), this does scare me. They have two very contrasting aesthetics; Star Trek is clean, and Star Wars... isn't. If Jabrams decides to go the same way as he has in Star Trek, the distinction between them will be blurred to the point of extinction.

I don't want Star Wars to become Star Trek.
 

daibakuha

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Aug 27, 2012
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I'm a lot more optimistic than Bob is here. I think this will probably end up being better than a lot of people think it's going to be. There are a couple of reasons for that.

One is that 2009's Star Trek is already the perfect Star Wars movie.

Another is that Bob didn't mention the heavy involvement of the writer and executives at Disney and Pixar, who have a pretty big role in making the film.

The problem with every single one of Abrams films is script. The dude knows what he's doing, he knows how to set up great sequences and he knows how to pull off an ensemble really well.

And lastly, I really can't believe anyone would pins their hopes on some experimental director for Episode VII. Star Wars has always been safe, and I don't know why anyone would expect anything different for Episode VII.


and as an added bit: I don't think late-era George Lucas would have been a better choice. He clearly has no idea what he's even doing with this franchise anymore and any attempt to do another film would only end in frustration for both him and fans.
 

Srhodes

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May 13, 2011
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Everyone keeps talking about Star Trek and Star Wars but people are missing the part where Abrams doesn't have as much control over Star Wars. See, Abrams isn't getting his team of writers or Star Wars, for instance. Abrams didn't go, "I want this." (Actually it was the opposite, he DIDN'T want it at first) Disney simply came to a deal with him. Star Wars will still be Star Wars because Abrams isn't going to be in charge of the aesthetic design or anything like that. A group of people that Lucasfilm hires will be. The story won't be done by J.J. a group of people who Lucasfilm hires will do that. It won't be written by his pack of writers because Lucasfilm and Disney will do that part (they've hired Michael Ardnt for the screenplay and Lawrence Kasdan for the story). Lucas will still be an idea guy as well, and he will still have the power to veto things Abrams wants to do.

While I agree that Abrams doesn't have as much ambition (and is a "safe bet") I disagree that he hasn't tried to show people what he's about. Granted he doesn't focus on major themes like say... Steven Spielberg or Christopher Nolan or Stanley Kubrick or even the likes of Quentin Tarantino, but I'm not sure how much I actually care about that. Not because not everyone has to reach, but because Abrams is the typical "Super Blockbuster," guy that people expect him to be. See, I totally disagree about The Avengers. It's a great movie but it has no real ambition. It's a CGI filled fest of what you'd get if Michael Bay actually made a good movie. And while I understand that it's Joss Wheddon doing what Joss Wheddon does best (although I think when he tackles Much Ado About Nothing it'll be a better movie overall), The Avengers is one of those movies that fanboys get up in arms about any time someone criticizes it. The Dark Knight Rises may have been disappointing for some, but at least it's actually reaching for something on a Thematic and Intellectual level.

The Avengers sort of felt like J.J. Abrams Star Trek in comparison. A fairly paperthin story that relied a lot on narrative coincidences that mostly banked on you loving Iron Man... not necessarily the other three movies (because Thor, Captain America and The Hulk just aren't as fun of characters--especially Captain America who might as well have just been labeled "The First Extra"). For as much as people talk about the "risk" with The Avengers, everyone forgets that you had a marketing campaign that lasted four years. There was no way that movie wasn't going to make it's money back. The surprise was the 600+ million dollar gross. But I'm sure they were certain it would make at least 400 million at the box office and that it was going to do really well globally. The only reason I actually remember The Avengers is because it made so much money that people won't let it slip out of the pop-culture subconsciousness. Not necessarily because it was a great movie, but because it made so much money it's "noteworthy" for that achievement. And while it was funny and a joyful good time... it pretty much came across like most every other summer movie popcorn flick. If you want to talk about movies with Ambition or getting to know a director, then The Avengers isn't really it either, and yet every nerd on the planet praises the hell out of that movie despite that the last half does exactly what a Michael Bay transformers movie does... just a really long battle where tons of stuff blows up and where tons of giant robots and other things destroy and nearly level a city. The only reason that Joss Wheddon escape criticism for that seems to be "Because he's a fellow nerd," where as if it were Michael Bay (and believe me I really hate Michael Bay) he'd be ripped to shreds.

But like I said, The Avengers is a better shot and better put together film at least. The way the characters grow to like one another is pretty cool. On the other hand it doesn't save it from having plot holes big enough to fly a 747 through or that it has that huge Deus Ex Machina... or that the final battle sequence is way too damn long. Or that Captain America isn't an interesting character on any level... or that Iron Man is the only guy worth liking among the heroes... or that the story is really boring... or that the last half of the last battle is too long and you just want it to end.

Don't get me wrong, I still love The Avengers, I'm just not sure why that gets a pass when we're talking about these things while movies that are reaching for something a little greater get beaten into the ground for NOT being The Avengers. Like I said, The Avengers felt almost exactly why Moviebob is getting all over J.J. Abrams and Moviebob loved the hell out of that movie... but I guess what I'm wondering is why, exactly. I suppose Moviebob could answer but I doubt I'll get one.
 

daibakuha

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Katatori-kun said:
Rogue 09 said:
You're also looking at a series that is 30 years old and has been responsible for a fundamental shift in the stories and ways current movies are made.
What shift was that?
The Blockbuster. Star Wars is one of the reasons we have blockbuster film-making. It also popularized Science Fiction and inspired thousands of directors, writers and artists.
 

Lieju

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Bob just said what I've been saying for a while. At least the prequels failed in interesting ways.

I'd disagree with one thing, though, Amazing Spider-Man did something different from the older movies, so why is that a bad thing?
 

daibakuha

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Lieju said:
Bob just said what I've been saying for a while. At least the prequels failed in interesting ways.

I'd disagree with one thing, though, Amazing Spider-Man did something different from the older movies, so why is that a bad thing?
Because it did it terribly. The actors were mishandled, the script a mess.
 

Lieju

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daibakuha said:
Lieju said:
Bob just said what I've been saying for a while. At least the prequels failed in interesting ways.

I'd disagree with one thing, though, Amazing Spider-Man did something different from the older movies, so why is that a bad thing?
Because it did it terribly. The actors were mishandled, the script a mess.
Even if that's the case, it seems weird thing to single out to complain about not doing things differently.
 

grey_space

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Apr 16, 2012
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Smokescreen said:
Who were those writers?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers

And who were the writers on the Star Trek movie?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers
Oh.....


Now that is fucking depressing.,
As to the above post,while I generally agree with Bob, I LIKED the latest Spiderman movie.

It was way better than Raimi's third one.

Which sucked donkey balls
 

Rabidkitten

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Sep 23, 2010
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I'm not sure it matters who makes this reanimated corpse of a Star Wars movie. I mean you didn't even mention Attack of the Clones. The forgotten star wars CG adventure that was universally panned. Star Wars has been dead for a while, it was condemned to a future of Legos, and kids TV shows. Most kids liked the TV show and the legos more then the movies. So Disney paid a freaking massive crap ton of money to put a pulse back in it, and picked a safe person to direct it. So that it might keep its brand alive for a long time, and make good on its 4 billion dollar investment. Seems like sound business to me. Now I would rather the District 9 director go and make original movies instead of keep this corpse going. It seems perfect for Abrams, because lord knows we aren't losing some amazing films with his absence from his own means.

Done.
 

daibakuha

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Katatori-kun said:
daibakuha said:
Katatori-kun said:
Rogue 09 said:
You're also looking at a series that is 30 years old and has been responsible for a fundamental shift in the stories and ways current movies are made.
What shift was that?
The Blockbuster. Star Wars is one of the reasons we have blockbuster film-making. It also popularized Science Fiction and inspired thousands of directors, writers and artists.
Star Wars came out in 1977.

According to Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_(entertainment)]

Wikipedia said:
In film, a number of terms were used to describe a hit. In the 1970s these included: spectacular (The Wall Street Journal), super-grosser (New York Times), and super-blockbuster (Variety). In 1975 the usage of 'blockbuster' for films coalesced around Steven Spielberg's Jaws, and became perceived as something new: a cultural phenomenon, a fast-paced exciting entertainment, almost a genre. Audiences interacted with such films, talked about them afterwards, and went back to see them again just for the thrill.[4]
So the term pre-dates Star Wars by 2 years, the phenomenon by a good few years.

As I said before, Star Wars isn't science fiction. It's space opera. 2001: A Space Odyssey came out almost a decade earlier and was true science fiction. Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers probably had just as much influence on the Space Opera genre (in fact I recall hearing Lucas claim those as his inspiration). Hell, the original Star Trek pre-dates Star Wars as well.

I'm not saying Star Wars was bad, I just think any contributions it made to the genre were not due to some "soul" in the work, but rather to it being a fun flick that was in the right place in the culture at the right time.
From the same article

"After the success of Jaws, many Hollywood producers attempted to create similar "event films" with wide commercial appeal. Film companies began green lighting increasingly high budgeted films and relying extensively on massive advertising blitzes leading up to their theatrical release. Spielberg and his fellow filmmaker George Lucas (whose 1977 film Star Wars was the most successful film of that decade) are the film-makers most closely associated with the beginning of the blockbuster era."

I also didn't say it purely invented the Blockbuster, but is one of the reasons why it's still around today.

Star Wars IS Science Fiction. Space Opera is a sub-genre of Sci-fi. Just because the focus is on the action and plot, doesn't make it any less Sci-fi

Also, I didn't say it invented Sci-fi, I said it popularized it. Remember how Star Trek was cancelled? Or how Star Wars is one of the most successful film franchises of all time? I'm not saying those works are inferior to Star Wars, I'm saying Star Wars is more influential.

Star Wars does have soul. Say what you will about the acting or writing of any of the movies, but they are all spectacularly well directed and scored. It's a simple story told incredibly well.
 

LysanderNemoinis

Noble and oppressed Kekistani
Nov 8, 2010
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Bob fears "rote mediocrity?" This coming from the man who worships at the altar of Nintendo? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off for a few hours.
 

DalekJaas

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I have always thought all of the Star Wars movies were average at best. The new Star Trek was better than all of the Star Wars movies so it can only do better with this director.
 

daibakuha

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Katatori-kun said:
Yup. So Star Wars didn't give us the blockbuster, it's merely an early example of one.

Did you read the last bit? Where they specifically mention Star Wars and George Lucas?


Nah, I'm not buying it. Sorry. There were blockbusters before Star Wars, and I see no reason to believe that had Star Wars never existed that any other popcorn-flick wouldn't have taken its place.
You keep asking me for evidence, but this is a huge assumption. The term also existed before 1975 but Star Wars and Jaws redefined it to mean what it does now.



What thematic difference is there between Star Wars and say, Lord of the Rings? There isn't. Star Wars is fantasy with set-dressing.
What's the difference between a noir film and Blade Runner? Blade Runner is a noir film with set-dressing. You can see how this argument literally holds no weight. It makes no difference if Lord of the Rings and Star Wars hold some similarities. literally the only thing that defines sci-fi is the setting. So this debate over semantics is pointless and irritating.



I'm not sure I believe that without seeing some pretty substantial evidence that I doubt any of us have access to.
Look at the box office of Star Wars compared to Star Trek or 2001. Tell me which one more people were watching.



I know what you're saying. I'm just looking for something to back up your claim, and I'm not seeing anything.
I'm making an observation on popular culture, and from some of the more popular directors doing movies today. James Cameron, Rian Johnson, Duncan Jones, JJ Abrams, Joss Whedon, etc. All inspired by Star Wars. Go ahead and look up how many people were inspired by it.



Wait, "spectacularly well-directed"? Seriously?
What are everyone's favorite scenes from the PT? The Podrace scene, the Duel of Fates, the battle on Geonosis (as well as the scene preceding it in the arena) and the battle on Mustafar. Scenes with little dialog. Lucas is actually a pretty talented director who gets bogged down by his own terrible writing. Literally everything that's bad about the prequels can be attributed to the writing (and acting, but with such wooden dialog it's hard to put in a good performance).
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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I never really liked anything Abrams has done. He has the flashy (literally) bells and whistles but nothing that gets me hooked on what is there.