The Big Picture: A Nerd By Any Other Name
- Thread starter MovieBob
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A clever concept but the one thing your thesis fails to account is that Classic Nerd is less outgoing about their fandom in public then a sports nerd. You don't see people randomly walking around just in a 'costume' like a sports team jersey. Cosplay in general is a very elite form of fandom among the nerd world; that though I do not have hard numbers I would spitball it in the less then 15% range of total Classical Nerd Fans doing it even at the nerd Super Bowl. (Comic Con)
I also wouldn't try and chop it up to fear of public ridicule, because I would say that nearly every nerd has no problem talking about their nerdom, or even sporting a t-shirt that supports their favorite genera of nerd. Think 12 million people play wow, that is more people then there are Washington Redskins, and Detroit Lions fans put together and multiplied by a factor of 10.... okay maybe not a factor of ten but you get the point.
That's a lot of fucking nerds. Yet you don't see a more verbal usage of WOW Cannon, or for that matter any Nerd related activity.
"He through a curve ball at me." You don't have to like baseball to understand it. Or, "he hit that answer out of the park." Or, calling someone the "Babe Ruth of accounting." People will know he is one fucking bad ass accountant. If you would say, "He is Captain Kirk when it comes to the ladies." I would bet less then half would understand what your trying to say.
You can't chop this up to one being around longer then the other, for Science and Math has been around since the dawn of time, and Science fiction books were around long before Babe Ruth was an itch in his dad's crotch.
Which leads me to think it is the nature of Stardom which is associated with Sports over Nerds. Granted someone can "Cosplay" as Tom Brady, but Tom Brady is a real person, and you can imitate someone of such skill paying homage to a hero. A real person. As a Nerd, I would say 99.99% of your "Hero's" are fictional. You don't have to be a Psych Major to know that Idolizing and obsessing over something that isn't real to what is real isn't the same.
I think that is the one thing that prevents peaceful coexistence between Classical Nerd and Sports Nerd. One is 99.9% based on real events, people, and stories, the other 99.9% based on fiction, people that only live in ones mind, and a story created and destroyed by a simple thought.
Now where is my Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey.
I also wouldn't try and chop it up to fear of public ridicule, because I would say that nearly every nerd has no problem talking about their nerdom, or even sporting a t-shirt that supports their favorite genera of nerd. Think 12 million people play wow, that is more people then there are Washington Redskins, and Detroit Lions fans put together and multiplied by a factor of 10.... okay maybe not a factor of ten but you get the point.
That's a lot of fucking nerds. Yet you don't see a more verbal usage of WOW Cannon, or for that matter any Nerd related activity.
"He through a curve ball at me." You don't have to like baseball to understand it. Or, "he hit that answer out of the park." Or, calling someone the "Babe Ruth of accounting." People will know he is one fucking bad ass accountant. If you would say, "He is Captain Kirk when it comes to the ladies." I would bet less then half would understand what your trying to say.
You can't chop this up to one being around longer then the other, for Science and Math has been around since the dawn of time, and Science fiction books were around long before Babe Ruth was an itch in his dad's crotch.
Which leads me to think it is the nature of Stardom which is associated with Sports over Nerds. Granted someone can "Cosplay" as Tom Brady, but Tom Brady is a real person, and you can imitate someone of such skill paying homage to a hero. A real person. As a Nerd, I would say 99.99% of your "Hero's" are fictional. You don't have to be a Psych Major to know that Idolizing and obsessing over something that isn't real to what is real isn't the same.
I think that is the one thing that prevents peaceful coexistence between Classical Nerd and Sports Nerd. One is 99.9% based on real events, people, and stories, the other 99.9% based on fiction, people that only live in ones mind, and a story created and destroyed by a simple thought.
Now where is my Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey.
This is a brilliant point and I think I have evidence of it's validity...
Me and my housemate have an almost identical attitude to life, share a plethora of similar opinions and generally agree with each other about most things. Only difference is, he's a sports fan, I'm a nerd (although I prefer geek!) Since living with him, I know a lot more about sports and he knows a lot more about games.
Me and my housemate have an almost identical attitude to life, share a plethora of similar opinions and generally agree with each other about most things. Only difference is, he's a sports fan, I'm a nerd (although I prefer geek!) Since living with him, I know a lot more about sports and he knows a lot more about games.
Dude, I was totally going to say that. By Bob's standards back in school when I'd wear a Roddy Piper Hot-Rod shirt, I guess I was wearing a costume even though I never wore a kilt, boots and knee pads.Corey Longest said:
Still, does that mean everyone who ever wore one of my t-shirts from my wrestling days are cosplaying as me?
Very good point there. I've never thought about how close nerds' and sports fans' behaviour are so close to one another. You brought up some very good points, all of them very sound.
You also asked the question, "If we're so much alike, why aren't sports fans considered nerds?" I'll tell you why. Social domination and acceptance. As much as us geeks and nerds have "claimed" the terms not as insults but as badges of honor (I literally have a badge right now that says "Geek to the Core", look to the left), nerd and geek ares still kind of derogatory amongst mainstream culture. They see nerds/geeks as weirdos who fail at "proper" social interaction, and obsess about strange and arcane things. Doesn't help that most of the people in mainstream culture don't have enough self-awareness to notice the parallels in their own life. And since sports are so god damn popular and mainstream, there is nothing wrong with dressing up to support your local group, despite the fact you have nothing to do with it.
So in the end, the only thing that separates us nerds and geeks from the sports nuts is who is accepted. The sports nuts are accepted amongst mainstream culture as "normal", while we're considered odd and "wrong".
You also asked the question, "If we're so much alike, why aren't sports fans considered nerds?" I'll tell you why. Social domination and acceptance. As much as us geeks and nerds have "claimed" the terms not as insults but as badges of honor (I literally have a badge right now that says "Geek to the Core", look to the left), nerd and geek ares still kind of derogatory amongst mainstream culture. They see nerds/geeks as weirdos who fail at "proper" social interaction, and obsess about strange and arcane things. Doesn't help that most of the people in mainstream culture don't have enough self-awareness to notice the parallels in their own life. And since sports are so god damn popular and mainstream, there is nothing wrong with dressing up to support your local group, despite the fact you have nothing to do with it.
So in the end, the only thing that separates us nerds and geeks from the sports nuts is who is accepted. The sports nuts are accepted amongst mainstream culture as "normal", while we're considered odd and "wrong".
Funny cause I'm wearing my football shirt of my team right now.
Have to disagree with the point of sport fans not having any impact on teams and therefore it doesn't matter whether they follow the team or not. I'm not sure how it is in the US but here in the uk the football clubs or at the centre of their communities and have historically relied on the imcome generated from fans going to games in order to keep running. Not so much true now with all the tv money but still has impact on the teams, especailly in the lower leagues. Also not mentioning the moral boost fans can give their team.
Bob what do you mean sport doesn't matter in life, SPORT IS LIFE! [/joke]
Have to disagree with the point of sport fans not having any impact on teams and therefore it doesn't matter whether they follow the team or not. I'm not sure how it is in the US but here in the uk the football clubs or at the centre of their communities and have historically relied on the imcome generated from fans going to games in order to keep running. Not so much true now with all the tv money but still has impact on the teams, especailly in the lower leagues. Also not mentioning the moral boost fans can give their team.
Bob what do you mean sport doesn't matter in life, SPORT IS LIFE! [/joke]
I don't buy the whole "intellect vs physicality" argument. I've known many intelligent and eloquent sports fans that know the history of their team, the team's record against hated rivals, and several years worth of stats. I also know gamers who make rocks look bright.
Rather, I think it boils down to a couple of other areas. One is "mainstream vs niche." Sports have been around for generations. There are people out there who are fans of a given team because their fathers and grandfathers cheered for the team, and their kids most likely will too. On any given weekend in the NFL there are more than a dozen games, each attended by 50,000 or more fans. NHL hockey games draw thousands and they play several times a week. Baseball games occur daily, playing to huge stadiums, and that doesn't even touch on college and high school sporting events. In geek culture, though, there's one event in North America that draws widespread media coverage and interest, and that's San Diego ComicCon. It's easier to pigeonhole geeks and call them "weird" when there's so many fewer of them than sports fans.
The other difference is the "real vs imagined" difference. The fact of the matter is that sports are real and tangible, even though a sports fan can't hope to influence the outcome of a game whether he watches or not. There are real people on that field or rink playing the game. For us geeks, no matter how into the backstory or the character we are, most of us still recognize that it's inherently unreal. Harrison Ford is not Han Solo. Christian Bale is not Batman.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things both fandoms are closer than they would realize. But I suspect that until geek culture becomes a great deal more mainstream than it is now the great divide will remain.
Rather, I think it boils down to a couple of other areas. One is "mainstream vs niche." Sports have been around for generations. There are people out there who are fans of a given team because their fathers and grandfathers cheered for the team, and their kids most likely will too. On any given weekend in the NFL there are more than a dozen games, each attended by 50,000 or more fans. NHL hockey games draw thousands and they play several times a week. Baseball games occur daily, playing to huge stadiums, and that doesn't even touch on college and high school sporting events. In geek culture, though, there's one event in North America that draws widespread media coverage and interest, and that's San Diego ComicCon. It's easier to pigeonhole geeks and call them "weird" when there's so many fewer of them than sports fans.
The other difference is the "real vs imagined" difference. The fact of the matter is that sports are real and tangible, even though a sports fan can't hope to influence the outcome of a game whether he watches or not. There are real people on that field or rink playing the game. For us geeks, no matter how into the backstory or the character we are, most of us still recognize that it's inherently unreal. Harrison Ford is not Han Solo. Christian Bale is not Batman.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things both fandoms are closer than they would realize. But I suspect that until geek culture becomes a great deal more mainstream than it is now the great divide will remain.
The reason why sports nerds and other nerds (like, say, comic nerds and video game nerds) can't come together and make conversation is because their interests don't necessarily overlap - like how (most of) my TF2 buddies can recite how much damage a scattergun can do at point blank but can't discuss the differences between Pathfinder and 3.5 D&D.
Although supposedly there's a lot less rage out there against nerds than there was. (That is, if the whole jocks-nerds hostility thing is to be believed - although when you think about it, it's eerily similar to how fanboys overreact to rejection of their chosen obsession, except in physical space and a muscle-y advantage - but I digress.) At the risk of being redundant with the rest of the thread, nowadays common wisdom states, "Everybody's a geek about something".
Although supposedly there's a lot less rage out there against nerds than there was. (That is, if the whole jocks-nerds hostility thing is to be believed - although when you think about it, it's eerily similar to how fanboys overreact to rejection of their chosen obsession, except in physical space and a muscle-y advantage - but I digress.) At the risk of being redundant with the rest of the thread, nowadays common wisdom states, "Everybody's a geek about something".
This is indeed interesting looks like we have more in common than I thought. Is this a good thing?
skylog said:
But there's an issue of Peter Parker: Spider-Man where he goes to a Mets game and reminisces about how he and Uncle Ben used to attend games together, and says that he identifies with the Mets because they're both "lovable losers". And Spider-Man's from Queens, so that's two tallies for the Mets analogy.mykalwane said:
I'll leave the Pats love and corresponding Yankees hate alone, but...
well...
Do you really think so little of Spider Man to compare him to the Cubs? Or does he simply lose at the end of every comic?
well...
Do you really think so little of Spider Man to compare him to the Cubs? Or does he simply lose at the end of every comic?
either you're talking about the cleveland browns, or you have some pretty athletic brownies...Pariahwulfen said:
OT: I agree with you that its pretty stupid to make fun of "nerdy" stuff and hobbies, while thinking "sporty" stuff and hobbies are different and somewhat better.
however, I cant entirely agree with you for one, simple yet powerfull, reason:
you're a patriots fan.
good points. However, I can give a reason for why we don't get along.
Like Christianity and Islam (at least during the crusades), or the French and the English, etc etc, history is littered with examples of two very similar but slightly different cultures clashing against one another. What I think (and many others think too) about the reason for this, is because having someone with too similar a culture to your own, but slightly different, can make people raather uncomfortable - it hits home, so to speak.
I have a feeling that the difference between nerdism and sports fans is a rather similar one...
Like Christianity and Islam (at least during the crusades), or the French and the English, etc etc, history is littered with examples of two very similar but slightly different cultures clashing against one another. What I think (and many others think too) about the reason for this, is because having someone with too similar a culture to your own, but slightly different, can make people raather uncomfortable - it hits home, so to speak.
I have a feeling that the difference between nerdism and sports fans is a rather similar one...
So that makes you a nerd squared!Palademon said:
Really good episode, now if you'd excuse me, I'm off to wait patiently for a moment to call a bunch of guys in football jerseys cos players.
(Bob, I'm footing you my medical bills
)edit: Oh and yeah, as the above person said, plenty of examples with two similar groups not getting along. Hell, just look at the star wars, wait that won't work, the war between Star Wars and Star Trek fans. It's called two sides of the same coin