The Big Picture: American Sniper Sucks (And It's Okay To Admit That)

jacobbanks

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RatGouf said:
jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
While I'm also annoyed that Bob decided to rant about a movie he doesn't like that he recently reviewed. Well it just seems more like a rehashed rant he could've had about The Expendables.

I find myself more annoyed with your concept of earned. Freedom Of Speech is not something you earn. But it is something you have unless its taken away from you by someone threatening you.

I imagine (jokingly) in some alternate universe Bob posted a rant on how he hated a documentary on trees. And someone told him he didn't earn the right to breathe the air that was thanks to the trees.

....

In either case there are people who would've still found the acting in those movies wooden.
Ahh, let me elaborate... Freedom to speak without fear of reprisal... That good enough? We all have free will in the sense that we can do what our bodies are capable of... doesn't mean you could do it without ramming into someone else's free will.
 

mjharper

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Apr 28, 2013
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jacobbanks said:
mjharper said:
jacobbanks said:
Izanagi009 said:
jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
done nothing to earn it huh? so by that definition, anyone who does not want to or can't fight in a war have done nothing to earn a right that was granted to us by the Bill of Rights rectified in 1791, well before you and I were born.

Also, this movie was not given a limited release to VA organizations or military camps but to the public. As such, I would think that the public, having been the people who watch it, can have an opinion on it regardless of if it's about a veteran or not?
Oh you can have an opinion... it just doesn't matter... and yes... compared to the men and women who have died protecting that piece of paper that says you can say what ever you want, Yes! you've done nothing for it.
You signed up just to spark this debate? Well done.

Also, thanks for dismissing 99.9% of the current population of the Earth as having opinions which don't matter. That's cool too.
I actually did... And oh no, you misunderstand. When it comes to things that are about the effects of coming back from war and the effects of war. Non war veterans and their opinion of said portrayals don't matter. I'm sure if we we're talking about fixing a car or preforming lab research you wouldn't care about the opinion of a non mechanic or non scientist.
Even if that is true (which I am not convinced of, since there things like logic should be universally applicable, and anyway such an argument leads to a slippery slope where only artists can have an opinion on art, and so on)... even if it is true, isn't the argument undermined in this case by the fact that Eastwood is not a veteran?

If only veterans can have an opinion on veterans, doesn't that only apply to the book, and not to the movie, which is an adaptation by a non-veteran?
 

Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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Ickabod said:
For some reason I just think it's kind of funny that this is turning into a propaganda movie, where you either love it or you're unmerican. Wasn't the propaganda movie in Inglorious Bastards about a sniper too.
There's a second layer to the irony when you also take into account that the movie has a pretty strong anti-war message, which for years has typically been something that, no matter the actual quality of the movie, typically gave it an automatic pass by the left and rejection by the right, which is the exact opposite of what happened with American Sniper.
 

Westonbirt

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Charcharo said:
mjharper said:
jacobbanks said:
Izanagi009 said:
jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
done nothing to earn it huh? so by that definition, anyone who does not want to or can't fight in a war have done nothing to earn a right that was granted to us by the Bill of Rights rectified in 1791, well before you and I were born.

Also, this movie was not given a limited release to VA organizations or military camps but to the public. As such, I would think that the public, having been the people who watch it, can have an opinion on it regardless of if it's about a veteran or not?
Oh you can have an opinion... it just doesn't matter... and yes... compared to the men and women who have died protecting that piece of paper that says you can say what ever you want, Yes! you've done nothing for it.
You signed up just to spark this debate? Well done.

Also, thanks for dismissing 99.9% of the current population of the Earth as having opinions which don't matter. That's cool too.
Actually, several hundred MILLION have seen the face of war.
Maybe even a billion.
So it is more like 6/7s of the planet. But not 99%.
Depends - what qualifies as a veteran ? The western form of it is more military members in arms way, such that logistics personnel is not counted. If you count only people who have fought in a professional capacity, shed civilians and administrative work, it's quite a small minority.

I mean, all my heart to people being shelled, but they're not really "veterans".
 

mjharper

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Apr 28, 2013
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Charcharo said:
mjharper said:
jacobbanks said:
Izanagi009 said:
jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
done nothing to earn it huh? so by that definition, anyone who does not want to or can't fight in a war have done nothing to earn a right that was granted to us by the Bill of Rights rectified in 1791, well before you and I were born.

Also, this movie was not given a limited release to VA organizations or military camps but to the public. As such, I would think that the public, having been the people who watch it, can have an opinion on it regardless of if it's about a veteran or not?
Oh you can have an opinion... it just doesn't matter... and yes... compared to the men and women who have died protecting that piece of paper that says you can say what ever you want, Yes! you've done nothing for it.
You signed up just to spark this debate? Well done.

Also, thanks for dismissing 99.9% of the current population of the Earth as having opinions which don't matter. That's cool too.
Actually, several hundred MILLION have seen the face of war.
Maybe even a billion.
So it is more like 6/7s of the planet. But not 99%.
I was referring to those who had fought to 'protect that piece of paper'. Only the US military is being referred to, not all those touched by war. You're right, that number would be much higher.
 

Westonbirt

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jacobbanks said:
Scorpid said:
jacobbanks said:
Micalas said:
Haven't seen the movie, don't care to.

jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
This is ridiclous. I'm a huge supporter of the military and even work for the DoD, but I'm tired of this line. The last vets that fought for our freedoms were from WW2. And the freedoms "protected" in that war for the US was tenuous at best. We only got involved after Pearl Harbor was bombed, which wasn't much worse than a modern terrorist attack.

You're out of your mind if you think any of the people in the middle east are threatening our freedoms. You can definitely say that troops right now are working to ensure that we don't get attacked in a large scale way again. But what you can't say that our "freedoms" are being defended.

Until we get invaded, there are very few things that will be classified as protecting our freedoms when it comes to armed response.
Enjoy your freedom of speech. Hopefully your piece of paper and its force field prevents anyone from punching you in the mouth for anything you say that may be offensive :)
Its so bizzare to me comments like this. I mean what does freedom of speech and being punched in the face have to do with one another? Or why does the poster seem to think that freedom of speech is an ineffectial passage of the bill of rights thats protects nothing? OR how does the poster believe that violence against a speaker proves that the speakers point is invalid?
You're free to do what ever you like, just not free from reprisal of your actions. The Bill of Rights is documented protection from said reprisal, but is only ensured by those willing to fight for others. And it doesn't you could speak nothing but the truth, but if someone doesn't like that true there is nothing that a piece of paper can do to protect you, its fighters who protect against those who aim to do harm to others.
As it turns out, physical violence as an answer to criticism... not legal.
 

jacobbanks

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Feb 3, 2015
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mjharper said:
jacobbanks said:
mjharper said:
jacobbanks said:
Izanagi009 said:
jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
done nothing to earn it huh? so by that definition, anyone who does not want to or can't fight in a war have done nothing to earn a right that was granted to us by the Bill of Rights rectified in 1791, well before you and I were born.

Also, this movie was not given a limited release to VA organizations or military camps but to the public. As such, I would think that the public, having been the people who watch it, can have an opinion on it regardless of if it's about a veteran or not?
Oh you can have an opinion... it just doesn't matter... and yes... compared to the men and women who have died protecting that piece of paper that says you can say what ever you want, Yes! you've done nothing for it.
You signed up just to spark this debate? Well done.

Also, thanks for dismissing 99.9% of the current population of the Earth as having opinions which don't matter. That's cool too.
I actually did... And oh no, you misunderstand. When it comes to things that are about the effects of coming back from war and the effects of war. Non war veterans and their opinion of said portrayals don't matter. I'm sure if we we're talking about fixing a car or preforming lab research you wouldn't care about the opinion of a non mechanic or non scientist.
Even if that is true (which I am not convinced of, since there things like logic should be universally applicable, and anyway such an argument leads to a slippery slope where only artists can have an opinion on art, and so on)... even if it is true, isn't the argument undermined in this case by the fact that Eastwood is not a veteran?

If only veterans can have an opinion on veterans, doesn't that only apply to the book, and not to the movie, which is an adaptation by a non-veteran?
Now that is a good question... I could find that agreeable... Clint Eastwood's interpretation of the book is lack luster... Yeah, there you go, common ground.
 

jacobbanks

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Feb 3, 2015
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Westonbirt said:
jacobbanks said:
Scorpid said:
jacobbanks said:
Micalas said:
Haven't seen the movie, don't care to.

jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
This is ridiclous. I'm a huge supporter of the military and even work for the DoD, but I'm tired of this line. The last vets that fought for our freedoms were from WW2. And the freedoms "protected" in that war for the US was tenuous at best. We only got involved after Pearl Harbor was bombed, which wasn't much worse than a modern terrorist attack.

You're out of your mind if you think any of the people in the middle east are threatening our freedoms. You can definitely say that troops right now are working to ensure that we don't get attacked in a large scale way again. But what you can't say that our "freedoms" are being defended.

Until we get invaded, there are very few things that will be classified as protecting our freedoms when it comes to armed response.
Enjoy your freedom of speech. Hopefully your piece of paper and its force field prevents anyone from punching you in the mouth for anything you say that may be offensive :)
Its so bizzare to me comments like this. I mean what does freedom of speech and being punched in the face have to do with one another? Or why does the poster seem to think that freedom of speech is an ineffectial passage of the bill of rights thats protects nothing? OR how does the poster believe that violence against a speaker proves that the speakers point is invalid?
You're free to do what ever you like, just not free from reprisal of your actions. The Bill of Rights is documented protection from said reprisal, but is only ensured by those willing to fight for others. And it doesn't you could speak nothing but the truth, but if someone doesn't like that true there is nothing that a piece of paper can do to protect you, its fighters who protect against those who aim to do harm to others.
As it turns out, physical violence as an answer to criticism... not legal.
LEGAL? WHAT IS LEGAL? Does committing an action that is illegal prevent one from preforming such action? No? Thought not...
 

Westonbirt

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Nov 7, 2013
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Mortis Nuncius said:
Tanklover said:
This is a movie I could never stomach, simply because is nothing but simple dick waving american army/patriotism bullshit, basically 'Murica Fuck Yeah: The movie. And yeah I really couldn't bother with something like this. Not that I dislike the US or its culture, but some parts of it are pretty damn stupid and or hypocritical.
I don't see how it could be turned into "Murica Fuck Yeah" sensibly considering, from what I gather, the movie is about how it changes people and often not for the better. He pushes his family away time and time again because he's become addicted to war and it tears him apart, only to end in him being killed back home in a shooting range by another man whose mind has been lost to war. That doesn't paint war in a pretty picture for me. That doesn't seem like something that people would strive to re-create for themselves, personally.
Making icons is rarely ever about what things actually are, it's more about the zeitgeist and the way people chose to remember it. If a whole wing of the American society chooses to canonize AS as a celebration of military bravery, you can't do anything to stop them. Chris Kyle is an icon, and icons are like statues, they don't say anything, they embody what people want them to.
 

daxterx2005

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Dec 19, 2009
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oh wow, that Sarah Palin clip was ridiculous. At first I thought it was a parody and someone mocking her....but it was actually her.
 

Micalas

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jacobbanks said:
Micalas said:
Haven't seen the movie, don't care to.

jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
This is ridiclous. I'm a huge supporter of the military and even work for the DoD, but I'm tired of this line. The last vets that fought for our freedoms were from WW2. And the freedoms "protected" in that war for the US was tenuous at best. We only got involved after Pearl Harbor was bombed, which wasn't much worse than a modern terrorist attack.

You're out of your mind if you think any of the people in the middle east are threatening our freedoms. You can definitely say that troops right now are working to ensure that we don't get attacked in a large scale way again. But what you can't say that our "freedoms" are being defended.

Until we get invaded, there are very few things that will be classified as protecting our freedoms when it comes to armed response.
Enjoy your freedom of speech. Hopefully your piece of paper and its force field prevents anyone from punching you in the mouth for anything you say that may be offensive :)
So you're saying that because of the US Military, I don't have to worry about people punching me in the face when I talk. Oh thank god. That's so much easier than filing a police report and having to take someone to court for battery.

So how does this protection from face punching manifest? If someone throws a punch at me, will a service member materialize in front of me to catch the punch or will they kill me would-be assailant?
 

PetiteMoogle

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jacobbanks said:
I actually did... And oh no, you misunderstand. When it comes to things that are about the effects of coming back from war and the effects of war. Non war veterans and their opinion of said portrayals don't matter. I'm sure if we we're talking about fixing a car or preforming lab research you wouldn't care about the opinion of a non mechanic or non scientist.
Fine. Then as the FOURTH in my line to have served the military, do I get a vote? This movie wasn't the greatest. I didn't think it sucked, but it could have spent more time on what it's really like there, and instead of focusing on "difficult choices made for good reasons" they drudged up a super villain. That trivializes the actual events, to me. Not liking this movie doesn't make you unpatriotic, liking the movie isn't the height of "fight the power", it just happens to entertain some people who enjoy war movies period. Or action.

Your idea that these people aren't allowed to speak their opinion because they're not vets is so dumb that it actually hurt my brain. Then why did our forefathers allow ALL to vote instead of simply military minded people? To get the full picture, to be free from exactly those who said if you're not one of these people your opinion doesn't matter. If you want to get up in someone's face about not being 'MURICAN enough to matter, then you've missed the point entirely of what it is WE fight for.
 

jacobbanks

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Feb 3, 2015
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PetiteMoogle said:
jacobbanks said:
I actually did... And oh no, you misunderstand. When it comes to things that are about the effects of coming back from war and the effects of war. Non war veterans and their opinion of said portrayals don't matter. I'm sure if we we're talking about fixing a car or preforming lab research you wouldn't care about the opinion of a non mechanic or non scientist.
Fine. Then as the FOURTH in my line to have served the military, do I get a vote? This movie wasn't the greatest. I didn't think it sucked, but it could have spent more time on what it's really like there, and instead of focusing on "difficult choices made for good reasons" they drudged up a super villain. That trivializes the actual events, to me. Not liking this movie doesn't make you unpatriotic, liking the movie isn't the height of "fight the power", it just happens to entertain some people who enjoy war movies period. Or action.

Your idea that these people aren't allowed to speak their opinion because they're not vets is so dumb that it actually hurt my brain. Then why did our forefathers allow ALL to vote instead of simply military minded people? To get the full picture, to be free from exactly those who said if you're not one of these people your opinion doesn't matter. If you want to get up in someone's face about not being 'MURICAN enough to matter, then you've missed the point entirely of what it is WE fight for.
As a veteran, your opinion on veteran related things counts :)

however, our forefathers allowed all land owning white men to vote... That said, you can have an opinion on any number of things... Just things your are not familiar with or have no knowledge are things in which your opinion hold no weight.
 

JarinArenos

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Why do people insist on feeding obvious sockpuppets? I've never understood that.

Clint Eastwood hasn't put out a good movie in 20 years, whether directing or acting. I didn't expect this to change anything. It's about as rambling as his empty chair speech was.
 

PetiteMoogle

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Dec 3, 2014
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Westonbirt said:
Making icons is rarely ever about what things actually are, it's more about the zeitgeist and the way people chose to remember it. If a whole wing of the American society chooses to canonize AS as a celebration of military bravery, you can't do anything to stop them. Chris Kyle is an icon, and icons are like statues, they don't say anything, they embody what people want them to.
Wonderfully expressed, my friend. I agree.
 

varmintx

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Oct 6, 2011
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daxterx2005 said:
oh wow, that Sarah Palin clip was ridiculous. At first I thought it was a parody and someone mocking her....but it was actually her.
Eh, for Palin, that really wasn't that bad. Try this one. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzD-zqWwWc]
 

jacobbanks

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Feb 3, 2015
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Micalas said:
jacobbanks said:
Micalas said:
Haven't seen the movie, don't care to.

jacobbanks said:
If you're not a veteran, then this movie wasn't for you and your opinion of it doesn't matter. Enjoy the freedom of speech for which you've done nothing to earn.
This is ridiclous. I'm a huge supporter of the military and even work for the DoD, but I'm tired of this line. The last vets that fought for our freedoms were from WW2. And the freedoms "protected" in that war for the US was tenuous at best. We only got involved after Pearl Harbor was bombed, which wasn't much worse than a modern terrorist attack.

You're out of your mind if you think any of the people in the middle east are threatening our freedoms. You can definitely say that troops right now are working to ensure that we don't get attacked in a large scale way again. But what you can't say that our "freedoms" are being defended.

Until we get invaded, there are very few things that will be classified as protecting our freedoms when it comes to armed response.
Enjoy your freedom of speech. Hopefully your piece of paper and its force field prevents anyone from punching you in the mouth for anything you say that may be offensive :)


So you're saying that because of the US Military, I don't have to worry about people punching me in the face when I talk. Oh thank god. That's so much easier than filing a police report and having to take someone to court for battery.

So how does this protection from face punching manifest? If someone throws a punch at me, will a service member materialize in front of me to catch the punch or will they kill me would-be assailant?
oh no, because of people willing to defend others, not exclusively the military... if you're capable of defending yourself, why worry about people who disagree with you.
 

Hebby

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Dec 8, 2013
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Christopher Scott "Chris" Kyle was a racist prick and a terrible human being. That ignorant Americans jizz in their pants over this drivel of a movie which was never in the same vicinity as the real story make the entire circus even more offensive.
 

jacobbanks

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Feb 3, 2015
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Hebby said:
Christopher Scott "Chris" Kyle was a racist prick and a terrible human being. That ignorant Americans jizz in their pants over this drivel of a move which was never in the same vicinity as the real story make the entire circus even more offensive.
It's not illegal to be racist. Good thing too, everyone is racist.