Wasn't miracle man an offshoot of captain marvel as well? I only mention it because probably my fav comic book villan, Johnny Bates, is in the series.
The Big Picture: Captains Courageous
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The Escapist needs to get you another show. One for comics/movies/games/whathaveyous and one for The Big Picture.
While I HIGHLY appreciate these snippets of pop culture, I'm always a little disappointed when I don't hear anything thoughtful, just amusing. The GI Joe episode did a nice thing and meshed the two together but it's still lacking
While I HIGHLY appreciate these snippets of pop culture, I'm always a little disappointed when I don't hear anything thoughtful, just amusing. The GI Joe episode did a nice thing and meshed the two together but it's still lacking
If you want important information why are you coming to a website that is pretty much all about entertainment?ReiverCorrupter said:
My first comic was a Superman comic I got when I was 6 or 7 years old, and when I got to the end and it was a typical cliff hanger, it made me so mad, I never read another one, because I then realized comics were trying to be a never ending string tied to all the money I would ever have. I still have no use for them.
Kingdom Come?MaxerJ said:
He utterly goes to town on Supes and we see that weakness against magic being exploited to the full.
Or Public Enemies... Billy fairly hands Clark his ass in that too (for a while anyway... "S! Castling!")
Captain Marvel (DC) is a great character and despite his virtue and inherant goodness is seriously dangerous.
Also Black Adam is the shiz in the Marvel "family".
Also Comics Are Weird! should get it's own series Bob... there's enough material out there for ten series.
Great episode, Bob. Love the comic-centric ones.
As far as the Marvel Universe goes now and Captain Marvel, there's actually nobody currently using the name.
The last person to use it was Noh-Varr, as you mentioned, but he's currently known as The Protector. (Honestly his new name and costume aren't nearly as interesting as when he was on the Dark Avengers.)
I believe Monica Rambeau is still active but hasn't been featured in a book in a few years, and goes by the name Photon now, anyway.
Although, it's worth noting that the original (Marvel's original, that is) Mar-Vell actually appeared recently in a Chaos War tie in called Dead Avengers, in which several Avengers that had been killed (including Deathcry, Doctor Druid, the Swordsman, and the female Yellowjacked) returned to life for a short time because of all the shenanigans occurring in the underworld.
Anyway, if you guys like these comic centric episodes, you may just enjoy my show as well. (Link in signature, excuse the shameless plug.)
Excelsior!
EDIT: Hmm, signature not attached. Here's the link, anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/MerryMarvelite
As far as the Marvel Universe goes now and Captain Marvel, there's actually nobody currently using the name.
The last person to use it was Noh-Varr, as you mentioned, but he's currently known as The Protector. (Honestly his new name and costume aren't nearly as interesting as when he was on the Dark Avengers.)
I believe Monica Rambeau is still active but hasn't been featured in a book in a few years, and goes by the name Photon now, anyway.
Although, it's worth noting that the original (Marvel's original, that is) Mar-Vell actually appeared recently in a Chaos War tie in called Dead Avengers, in which several Avengers that had been killed (including Deathcry, Doctor Druid, the Swordsman, and the female Yellowjacked) returned to life for a short time because of all the shenanigans occurring in the underworld.
Anyway, if you guys like these comic centric episodes, you may just enjoy my show as well. (Link in signature, excuse the shameless plug.)
Excelsior!
EDIT: Hmm, signature not attached. Here's the link, anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/MerryMarvelite
I totally agree on the 'perfect body' thing and I really don't think that's an issue and its just as bad as the male characters. But I can't think of any time a male character has gone through anything as bad as being brainwashed to love their son who is a reincarnation of their own interdimensional rapist, that is just wrong.Therumancer said:Ms. Marvel hasn't been through any more than most other super heroes, it's just that as some of it has involved sexuality (she was impregnated forcibly for one) and a lot of it was done in order to have a political spin, or GIVEN a political spin, which ultimatly wound up ruining the character. Ms. Marvel suffers from attempts to try and turn her into a feminist icon, instead of seeing if she wound up appealing to that audience on her own just by being a decent super hero. Good character, but ruined by Marvel's attempts to get politically profound.burymagnets said:Bob so has to give Ms. Marvel/Warbird her own episode, that girl's been through so much
If anyone's uninformed as to the comic book atrocities comitted against female characters check out Gail Simone's site 'Women in Refrigerators' in which the Green Lantern's girlfriend was.... stuffed into a refrigeratorJust to give him a reason to go after some guy called 'Major Force' (?) URL: http://www.unheardtaunts.com/wir/index.html
@DanDeFool- which just goes to show there are other military titled supercharacters who don't use 'captain'.
I would like to see the big picture creating a spin-off in 'Bob's Speech Bubble', just sticking with the comic based weirdness. Not that the other episodes aren't excillent, but these comic book background episodes are really interesting and have made comic books a reasonable talking point with my mates
She's up there with the whole "Starfox" incident I mentioned, and how they ruined what was probably over a decade of gradual building to create an awesome "gray" conflict between super heroes where there would be no actual bad guys ( a real "point of view" type conflict ), to engage in a bit of George Bush bashing... yes I am talking about "Civil War" there which pretty much epitomizes everything that is wrong with Marvel's writing staff, it's a shadow of what it could have been, and sold as well as it did I believe because a ot of people saw the potential and the moments of genius, and hoped it would get back on track... but I don't think it ever really did.
There has been plenty of discussion about "femjep" in comic books, with everything from Zatanna (especially early on) getting gagged, to the omni-present damsels in distress. While I suppose you can point a finger at the golden and silver age of comics before the civil liberties movement won most of it's major battles and actually started defining American society, to be honest the portrayal of women in comics has largely grown up as politics and perceptions have. Yes there ARE cases where you can point to some really immature and over the top things, but this isn't an entirely mature genere, and you can point to just as many ridiculous things about male characters. Women just get more press, because people remember the movement and how it gets attention and decide to harp on it.
A good example of this is how you will have people complain about the perfect bodies that female characters tend to have in comic books. The thing is that despite the presentation that isn't one sided, as the guys are typically presented as physically perfect specimins as well. A lot has been said about the portrayal of musclemen in comics, when it can be argued going after that perfect "Charles Atlas" build isn't healthy for a lot of people. Guys who have biceps that are as big around as their heads being viewed by a lot of people as just as bad as women with breasts as big as their heads. Both complaints are ridiculous, the big differance is you don't hear much about the negative influance on little boys, or comments about maturity, unless your listening to some kind of crusade against steroid abuse which some people will argue is encouraged by things like comic characters, and action heroes. Guys like Stallone and Schwartzneggar ripping off their shirts to show off their massive muscles before fighting the bad guys not having helped the matter either, especially when you consider Arnie *WAS* a steroid abuser, albiet he did it before as much as known about it while what he did is illegal now, it wasn't a big deal then.
The point is that people will complain about women in comic books getting bondaged, having perfect builds, torture, and all manner of physical and psychological torments being inflicted on them. The bottom line is that that in the end there is no differance in their treatment, since the guys go through almost all of the same stuff. They get strapped into torture machines, brain washed, put in death traps, get immobilized by their weaknesses, and everything else just as much. Even the rape thing isn't unprecedented because we've had a few cases where the origin of a villain is that it's the child a super hero never realized they had, and whom inherited all of their powers, because they fathered it under duress and were brain washed or whatever (though for both genders the ratings issues make the collection of genetic samples through hair or skin samples or whatever and cloning more common. The point is that there really isn't much actual differance in the treatment of characters. With female super heroes they rescue their boyfriends too. Felicia Hardy has rescued Flash Thompson in her Black Cat guise more than once I believe).
I'm just saying that alot of awful crimes happen to the comparitavely small number of female superheroes, and as most of these stories are written by men, the often sexual element of their hardships seems indecent, those writers can't know how their characters would feel. Also, it just seems wrong that these super-powered characters can ever be misogynistcally humiliated (poor Starfire
), they should stand up for women, and women readers.It seems like the only ones who escape are Wonder Woman, Black Cat and... Squirrel Girl
Well, the basic arguement you seem to be making is that this is worse somehow because they are women. There can be some differances between the types of jeopardy they are placed in because the genders are differant and men and women tend to be a bit more or less threatened by specific things.burymagnets said:I totally agree on the 'perfect body' thing and I really don't think that's an issue and its just as bad as the male characters. But I can't think of any time a male character has gone through anything as bad as being brainwashed to love their son who is a reincarnation of their own interdimensional rapist, that is just wrong.
I'm just saying that alot of awful crimes happen to the comparitavely small number of female superheroes, and as most of these stories are written by men, the often sexual element of their hardships seems indecent, those writers can't know how their characters would feel. Also, it just seems wrong that these super-powered characters can ever be misogynistcally humiliated (poor Starfire
It seems like the only ones who escape are Wonder Woman, Black Cat and... Squirrel Girl
Ms. Marvel's "big moment" that I think politically ruined the character is no worse than what Cyclops has gone through with Stryfe, or what Spider Man has had to deal with during things like "The Clone Saga" or what some of the symbiotes have done to him over the years. The only real issue is that somehow it's worse because Ms. Marvel is a girl, and that kind
of nukes the entire idea of any kind of equality which is what these arguements are usually presented as being about.
Even when you look at issues like rape, you can look at some of the stuff Mystique has pulled on guys over the years, not to mention that whole thing between Gambit and The Black Queen. Heck, while they glossed over it for purposes of the ratings let's not forget that the entire "Hellfire Club" is fundementally a group of BDSM sickos, and it's not difficult to read between the lines of what a lot of characters captured by them probably went through, and why exactly a lot of people aren't exactly accepting of The White Queen's reformation given that she's a sadistic, mind-raping *****, who did those things because she enjoyed them.
You might say "well, it's differant for guys and bondage, I mean most are secretly into that", whether or not that may or may not be true (I think it's greatly exagerrated) the same is true of women to the same extent, plenty of submissives there as well. Any arguement you could make about the appeal of being the love slave of "The Black Queen", can be turned right around and applied to women in a similar position especially seeing as a lot of those villain guys are just as attractive to an exagerrated degree as she is. Girls have fantasies about that kind of stuff too, and plenty of women create this stuff themselves both in writing and artwork. Heck Anne Rice wrote a number of kinko novels, "Belinda", "Exit To Eden", and the "Sleeping Beauty" trilogy are all her work. To say nothing of some of the themes that run through series like "Anita Blake". You could argue that 90% of the vampire fiction out there directed at women is mind bondage erotica even when the actual sexual content is minimal. It's all about dominance and the joy of submission to "Count Studdly".
The point here is that there is no imbalance in treatment, just in how much complaining you see about it, and how seriously it's taken. I can't think of much you can say female characters have gone through, including rape, that hasn't happened to male characters in similar or superior numbers. Actually if anything male characters probably get it worse because of things like the whole "Starfox" incident where the male god of lust, no matter
how good or well intentioned, is a bloody rapist just by existing apparently. Not to mention all the screaming about "Ms. Marvel" which has irrevocably tainted the character. The situations are equal, but the whining is what unbalances the situation. Writers are just too willing to try and stir up a contreversy for no other purpose, and in the end it's invariably the dudes who come out on the losing end, either IRL, or in the comics themselves.
This whole conversation reminds me also of when they did the movie "My Super Ex-Girlfriend" which was a mediocre movie, but one that got bashed for being misogynistic, yet in watching it I couldn't help but think that nobody complains whenever you do a movie where the antagonist is some unusually talented whack job stalker-guy. If a girl goes ridiculously off the deep end in harassing a guy for something stupid, that's misogynistic, if a guy does it I guess that's not supposed to be insulting? As far as I'm concerned the politics need to go in the trash can, and people need to focus on the stories themselves rather than trying to insert meaning, or read into some kind of horrific message.
Similarly, I knew they'd secured the trademark, but not how specifically they did it. There's also a reason they tend to run permutation comics, like Spider-Woman and the like, to prevent knockoffs.maddog015 said:I kinda dug Marvel's Captain Marvel back in the day. And knew that "Shazam" was the original Capt. Marvel, but never bothered looking up why Marvel could use the name and not DC. Thanks for the sum up.
I only read a few comics dealing with the black woman who was Captain Marvel, and I was under the impression the name was the only thing they had in common, though I could be wrong. Thought she was cool, never bothered with any titles specific to the original.
You make some good points. However, I think if we were able to survey the entire genre, abused men are much more likely to get a chance to fight back. A tortured Superman will eventually be able to fight back much more effectively than Lois Lane.Therumancer said:Well, the basic arguement you seem to be making is that this is worse somehow because they are women. There can be some differances between the types of jeopardy they are placed in because the genders are differant and men and women tend to be a bit more or less threatened by specific things.burymagnets said:I totally agree on the 'perfect body' thing and I really don't think that's an issue and its just as bad as the male characters. But I can't think of any time a male character has gone through anything as bad as being brainwashed to love their son who is a reincarnation of their own interdimensional rapist, that is just wrong.
I'm just saying that alot of awful crimes happen to the comparitavely small number of female superheroes, and as most of these stories are written by men, the often sexual element of their hardships seems indecent, those writers can't know how their characters would feel. Also, it just seems wrong that these super-powered characters can ever be misogynistcally humiliated (poor Starfire
It seems like the only ones who escape are Wonder Woman, Black Cat and... Squirrel Girl
Ms. Marvel's "big moment" that I think politically ruined the character is no worse than what Cyclops has gone through with Stryfe, or what Spider Man has had to deal with during things like "The Clone Saga" or what some of the symbiotes have done to him over the years. The only real issue is that somehow it's worse because Ms. Marvel is a girl, and that kind
of nukes the entire idea of any kind of equality which is what these arguements are usually presented as being about.
Even when you look at issues like rape, you can look at some of the stuff Mystique has pulled on guys over the years, not to mention that whole thing between Gambit and The Black Queen. Heck, while they glossed over it for purposes of the ratings let's not forget that the entire "Hellfire Club" is fundementally a group of BDSM sickos, and it's not difficult to read between the lines of what a lot of characters captured by them probably went through, and why exactly a lot of people aren't exactly accepting of The White Queen's reformation given that she's a sadistic, mind-raping *****, who did those things because she enjoyed them.
You might say "well, it's differant for guys and bondage, I mean most are secretly into that", whether or not that may or may not be true (I think it's greatly exagerrated) the same is true of women to the same extent, plenty of submissives there as well. Any arguement you could make about the appeal of being the love slave of "The Black Queen", can be turned right around and applied to women in a similar position especially seeing as a lot of those villain guys are just as attractive to an exagerrated degree as she is. Girls have fantasies about that kind of stuff too, and plenty of women create this stuff themselves both in writing and artwork. Heck Anne Rice wrote a number of kinko novels, "Belinda", "Exit To Eden", and the "Sleeping Beauty" trilogy are all her work. To say nothing of some of the themes that run through series like "Anita Blake". You could argue that 90% of the vampire fiction out there directed at women is mind bondage erotica even when the actual sexual content is minimal. It's all about dominance and the joy of submission to "Count Studdly".
The point here is that there is no imbalance in treatment, just in how much complaining you see about it, and how seriously it's taken. I can't think of much you can say female characters have gone through, including rape, that hasn't happened to male characters in similar or superior numbers. Actually if anything male characters probably get it worse because of things like the whole "Starfox" incident where the male god of lust, no matter
how good or well intentioned, is a bloody rapist just by existing apparently. Not to mention all the screaming about "Ms. Marvel" which has irrevocably tainted the character. The situations are equal, but the whining is what unbalances the situation. Writers are just too willing to try and stir up a contreversy for no other purpose, and in the end it's invariably the dudes who come out on the losing end, either IRL, or in the comics themselves.
This whole conversation reminds me also of when they did the movie "My Super Ex-Girlfriend" which was a mediocre movie, but one that got bashed for being misogynistic, yet in watching it I couldn't help but think that nobody complains whenever you do a movie where the antagonist is some unusually talented whack job stalker-guy. If a girl goes ridiculously off the deep end in harassing a guy for something stupid, that's misogynistic, if a guy does it I guess that's not supposed to be insulting? As far as I'm concerned the politics need to go in the trash can, and people need to focus on the stories themselves rather than trying to insert meaning, or read into some kind of horrific message.
Most of that could probably be chalked up to their being more male superheroes and therefor more non-powered female significant others. (And that's fine with me, I'm not saying it needs to be equal. I'm not saying there is a sinister motive). From a pure numbers perspective though, I doubt women as a group get as much revenge as men.
With all the continuity problems I cannot fathom why comics still exist. Tv shows staring comic characters unburdened by any continuity should (in any sane universe) be way more popular and accessible (if there were any children that can't stand Miley Cyrus and Justin biever (or Bieber or w/e). I as a child loved Justice League (+ Unlimited), Batman Begins and what was that future batman show called ? (not the CR*P that's now on tv, some sort of happy batman and all his buds).
I just wish I could understand why there are no superhero cartoons any more (good ones that is). I still love Justice League!
I just wish I could understand why there are no superhero cartoons any more (good ones that is). I still love Justice League!