The Big Picture: Correctitude
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Bob, sir, I absolutely applaud you for this one. This was said incredibly well, and needed to be said. Thank you.
As for those bringing up RE5; here is a brief history of the Resident Evil 5 & Racism issue as it pertains to Bob. There were two separate points of contention that went around during the Resident Evil 5 trailer. One of these was the genocide charge, that it was a video of 'whitey killing black'. The other, most famously made by N'gai Croal (with his memorable phrase, "This imagery has a history") [http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/10/newsweeks-ngai-croal-on-the-resident-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/]. Bob was, in fact, critical at the time of both of these issues; he argued the criticisms should be deferred until the game was released [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw8DkSmJDOg]. (Although it's worth pointing out that he defended Croal vehemently against the torrent of criticism that got levelled at him from the gamer community.) When RE5 was released, the first criticism was still up for contention, but the second criticism gained massive corroboration with the tribal imagery that hadn't been seen in the trailer (and that Bob briefly highlighted in this video). At that point, Bob switched his position, more or less acknowledging that Croal's criticisms were valid against the finished game (with some caveats) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhopxZqQrmo].
Or, in the Teal Deer version: Yes, people criticised the African imagery rather than just the act of killing. And Bob's statements here are pretty consistent with the opinion he's expressed before.
As for those bringing up RE5; here is a brief history of the Resident Evil 5 & Racism issue as it pertains to Bob. There were two separate points of contention that went around during the Resident Evil 5 trailer. One of these was the genocide charge, that it was a video of 'whitey killing black'. The other, most famously made by N'gai Croal (with his memorable phrase, "This imagery has a history") [http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/10/newsweeks-ngai-croal-on-the-resident-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/]. Bob was, in fact, critical at the time of both of these issues; he argued the criticisms should be deferred until the game was released [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw8DkSmJDOg]. (Although it's worth pointing out that he defended Croal vehemently against the torrent of criticism that got levelled at him from the gamer community.) When RE5 was released, the first criticism was still up for contention, but the second criticism gained massive corroboration with the tribal imagery that hadn't been seen in the trailer (and that Bob briefly highlighted in this video). At that point, Bob switched his position, more or less acknowledging that Croal's criticisms were valid against the finished game (with some caveats) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhopxZqQrmo].
Or, in the Teal Deer version: Yes, people criticised the African imagery rather than just the act of killing. And Bob's statements here are pretty consistent with the opinion he's expressed before.
Uhhh....for 3/4's of the way, I was right behind you. I don't know when I stopped walking beside you, but I guess it was when we got into blame-throwing.
Gay doesn't mean homosexual. It originally meant happy. ("We'll have a gay old time"- The Flintstones)
Man doesn't refer to guys, it refers to Homo, as in Homo Sapiens. There's isn't a Hetero Sapiens or a Wohomo/Feminae Sapiens.
African people were sold as slaves, referred to by the N word, and it was often by other Africans. Not by Whitey. Which isn't racist(?). Cracker or Coon are equally racist but only in their relative countries.
Spastic is horribly offensive over here (Not so in America), while we still all use the cross-eyed "Derp" epithet to refer to someone with mental shortcomings - making fun of those that actually have them in ailments like Downes Syndrome.
See, here's the problem with the PC movement: Big White Corporate-land (Which doesn't include you or me, and never will unless we've got family in there) has decided that words like Golliwog and ****** are offensive - not because they have a deep meaning of antagonism, but that they've been used to antagonise in the past.
(OED: a soft doll with bright clothes, a black face, and fuzzy hair / a ball or roll of seasoned chopped liver, baked or fried. )
We've been utter assholes in the past, and there's some of us that are still assholes in the present; but it's hugely dangerous to start limiting speech purely from when "Haters are gonna Hate".
It's one of the main reasons I like the Escapist. I can say fuck when I need to. I can write 455 without the swear-checker jumping on it. I understand that there are people out there who just want to potty-mouth the whole day long, but like DRM, there's always a way around it. And also like DRM, innocent consumers are caught up in the fight between Corporateland and Anarchyland.
Would I ever use the N word to a black guy? No. That would be rude.
Would I describe him as an African-American? No. FOR THE SAME REASON. I don't know where his family came from.
Political Correctness is a toxic point because it subtly slips in new words into the vernacular, which just become as racist as the old ones; slips some out which are actually useful and descriptive (purely because they've been used in hate speech); and heralds in the wonders of Newspeak where reporting on sexcrime is doubleplusgood.
TL;DR: Stop the hatewords, not the hatelanguage.
(Oh, Achmed the Dead Terrorist? Lots of Arabians laugh their dishdasha's off at it)
Gay doesn't mean homosexual. It originally meant happy. ("We'll have a gay old time"- The Flintstones)
Man doesn't refer to guys, it refers to Homo, as in Homo Sapiens. There's isn't a Hetero Sapiens or a Wohomo/Feminae Sapiens.
African people were sold as slaves, referred to by the N word, and it was often by other Africans. Not by Whitey. Which isn't racist(?). Cracker or Coon are equally racist but only in their relative countries.
Spastic is horribly offensive over here (Not so in America), while we still all use the cross-eyed "Derp" epithet to refer to someone with mental shortcomings - making fun of those that actually have them in ailments like Downes Syndrome.
See, here's the problem with the PC movement: Big White Corporate-land (Which doesn't include you or me, and never will unless we've got family in there) has decided that words like Golliwog and ****** are offensive - not because they have a deep meaning of antagonism, but that they've been used to antagonise in the past.
(OED: a soft doll with bright clothes, a black face, and fuzzy hair / a ball or roll of seasoned chopped liver, baked or fried. )
We've been utter assholes in the past, and there's some of us that are still assholes in the present; but it's hugely dangerous to start limiting speech purely from when "Haters are gonna Hate".
It's one of the main reasons I like the Escapist. I can say fuck when I need to. I can write 455 without the swear-checker jumping on it. I understand that there are people out there who just want to potty-mouth the whole day long, but like DRM, there's always a way around it. And also like DRM, innocent consumers are caught up in the fight between Corporateland and Anarchyland.
Would I ever use the N word to a black guy? No. That would be rude.
Would I describe him as an African-American? No. FOR THE SAME REASON. I don't know where his family came from.
Political Correctness is a toxic point because it subtly slips in new words into the vernacular, which just become as racist as the old ones; slips some out which are actually useful and descriptive (purely because they've been used in hate speech); and heralds in the wonders of Newspeak where reporting on sexcrime is doubleplusgood.
TL;DR: Stop the hatewords, not the hatelanguage.
(Oh, Achmed the Dead Terrorist? Lots of Arabians laugh their dishdasha's off at it)
Somethings that Bob said I agree with, some I don't.
The only one that I have the really big problem with is that Bob was defending the change of the charcter in the Thor movie. I'm not a big fan of Thor and I don't know much about it, but we see this a lot in movies now where they change the character's race to be more PC and I think that is stupid and wrong. I think it's wrong because you are taking someone elses idea and creation(one you stand to make a lot of money on if you're a Hollywood producer) and shitting on it by changing their work of art. Would you paint over Da Vinci "Last Supper" portrait to make the painting more "diverse"? Would you add some black, hispanic, asain, or middle eastern people to the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel despite them not being part of Michelangelo's vision? No. So why should movies or story telling be any different? So if an author of a book has a race of pure white elves and you are black, don't complain that it is racist that you didn't get picked for that movie role or if a comic book character is white then make the actor that plays him white if for no other reason then to respect the original creator's vision. On top of all that, it's not really realistic for a Nordic diety to be black.
The only one that I have the really big problem with is that Bob was defending the change of the charcter in the Thor movie. I'm not a big fan of Thor and I don't know much about it, but we see this a lot in movies now where they change the character's race to be more PC and I think that is stupid and wrong. I think it's wrong because you are taking someone elses idea and creation(one you stand to make a lot of money on if you're a Hollywood producer) and shitting on it by changing their work of art. Would you paint over Da Vinci "Last Supper" portrait to make the painting more "diverse"? Would you add some black, hispanic, asain, or middle eastern people to the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel despite them not being part of Michelangelo's vision? No. So why should movies or story telling be any different? So if an author of a book has a race of pure white elves and you are black, don't complain that it is racist that you didn't get picked for that movie role or if a comic book character is white then make the actor that plays him white if for no other reason then to respect the original creator's vision. On top of all that, it's not really realistic for a Nordic diety to be black.
That, or he read the comments page of Extra Credits' diversity episode. I saw a bunch of comments there about them just trying to be politically correct.Random berk said:
Let me translate from the Conservispeak (I come from a household where that's the only language spoken, so I'm fluent)InterAirplay said:
"I suggest that honest, and heartfelt evaluations of people or groups is what society needs right now, in order to cut away needless "beating around the bush" (If you'll excuse a colloquialism) and focus on issues which need to be resolved (this is combined with an implication that the resolution of these issues are more important than manners). In truth, I feel that the avoidance of heartfelt evaluations of people or groups perpetuates some issues by restricting the availability of information about the problems (Which would have been pointed out by said heartfelt evaluations) of the aforementioned people or groups."
It is believable when you know he took the serum that basically makes immortal.jmarquiso said:
Isn't a pretty big part of being a dick... not thinking/realizing that you're being a dick?
It's all well and good to say "if you wanna be a jerk, then be a jerk," but part of said jerk's effectiveness is parading about like he has legitimate things to say.
Kinda like this post, for instance. O
It's all well and good to say "if you wanna be a jerk, then be a jerk," but part of said jerk's effectiveness is parading about like he has legitimate things to say.
Kinda like this post, for instance. O
The idea of appealing to everyone with fair language has only helped to open the floodgates to a world where people have delusional understandings of race. It is a subject where simply trying to discuss it lands the label of bigot and jerk upon you. If people using the shield of "political correctness" are bad, then people who use the spear of "racist" to silence someone's argument is equally reprehensible. For this bob, I have to say you missed the mark. You're really level headed normally, but I have to disagree with you here. The real political correctness you talk about has been taken to bizarre lengths, and is used to silence intellectual discussion and censor people.
The road to hell is paved by good intentions.
The road to hell is paved by good intentions.
OK here's an interesting perspective on the concept of a "racist joke" I've found.
In order for a racist joke to not be "mean" or "unfair" the joke must only be applicable to one race. So if you make a joke about the Irish being stupid, that's racist, as you can revolve the Irish with any race and have the joke work. However if you make a joke about the irish and potatoes, that is less racist as the only way the joke can work is if the irish person is involved. Ultimately, in the first scenario you have actively picked on a race and attributed them characteristics. In the second, you've had to resort to their race because otherwise the punchline doesn't work.
In order for a racist joke to not be "mean" or "unfair" the joke must only be applicable to one race. So if you make a joke about the Irish being stupid, that's racist, as you can revolve the Irish with any race and have the joke work. However if you make a joke about the irish and potatoes, that is less racist as the only way the joke can work is if the irish person is involved. Ultimately, in the first scenario you have actively picked on a race and attributed them characteristics. In the second, you've had to resort to their race because otherwise the punchline doesn't work.
THANK YOU! listen, i do agree with you to an extent, bob but i really gotta say i feel PC has just started to go too far. not to say the stuff you were talking about is okay but there are other sides.themyrmidon said:
in school we were studying a poem in english once that was, more or less, just a guy bitching that people call him half caste. we were asked our opinions on the subject and i said "well, it's a bit stupid to complain about just the words people use, they're just words. if someone says it with obvious malicious intent, that's a different story. but if you're just gonna get offended by words, you're not gonna get far without having something to ***** about." the teacher then said to the class "is anyone here actually half caste, let's see if they feel the same way." i then put my hand up.
i know black people who have close friends that use the "n word" with them. and they don't mind 'cause they're friends and they understand that. i love the idea of political correctness. but the fact is there IS a difference between PC and just politeness and i think it's a slippery slope when, for example, filmmakers change a character's race incongruously just to try and please everyone.
IF you know that. That's a big If. That was WRITTEN in so they could explain his continued existence in the 616 universe. The movies, cartoons, and the Ultimate universe were meant to be unburdened with continuity (of course creating continuity of its own) and thus in their own little worlds. This also helped with licensing issues with Fox.spectrenihlus said: