The Big Picture: Done With Dark
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I enjoy "dark and gritty" as much as the next guy, but can we stop pretending that this is what passes for mature. If the original source material is dark or suitable for a darker re-interpretation, then that's OK. However, shoehorning it in to appeal to a more grown-up demographic is ridiculous.
I watched the first Transformers, it made no sense so I ignored the sequel. The only person I know who enjoyed Transformers is a 13-year-old boy who has the hots for Megan Fox. These properties are made dark and gritty ostensibly to appeal to adults, but it is the kids who want to watch them because they seem edgy.
Also, Care Bear with a machine-gun says it all.
I watched the first Transformers, it made no sense so I ignored the sequel. The only person I know who enjoyed Transformers is a 13-year-old boy who has the hots for Megan Fox. These properties are made dark and gritty ostensibly to appeal to adults, but it is the kids who want to watch them because they seem edgy.
Also, Care Bear with a machine-gun says it all.
i at times try to get myself in to superhero comics (mostly marval and dc)but every time i step in to the shops (store), i seem to be sarounded with grim and pritty depressingly complex stories about death and nagative chooses on depressing plots with depressing characters.
there are some that did light up or made me feel good like all star superman or the classic new justes leage. so i'm not comprable seeing well known or unknown heros being tourtherd and superheros going pycho on people and being bruded.
so bob if you could one day make the 10 ten possotive marvel, dc or other comics with superheros in them or similer.
like your thoughts bob.
there are some that did light up or made me feel good like all star superman or the classic new justes leage. so i'm not comprable seeing well known or unknown heros being tourtherd and superheros going pycho on people and being bruded.
so bob if you could one day make the 10 ten possotive marvel, dc or other comics with superheros in them or similer.
like your thoughts bob.
Thor was really good, I saw it with a friend, there was a lot of laughs in the Cinema, everyone got to hear me go postal about Source Code (NO! NOT EVEN SCIENCE!!! WOULD LET HIM ALTER TIME!)
But seriously, I actually want to point out that Thor is about Arrogance. He's a rude, spoiled asshole who only thinks of himself and glory and the entire movie is about him coming to terms with becoming humble. Throw in Loki's own crisii of where he belongs and who's side he's even really on. And you have a damn good movie.
Seriously, see Thor.
Also everyone in the Cinema found it funny that they showed trailers for Green Lantern and Captain America back to back.
I wont spoil the stinger at the end, but lets just say the tag line that 'Thor will return in The Avengers' just led everyone to going "No Shit!"
But seriously, I actually want to point out that Thor is about Arrogance. He's a rude, spoiled asshole who only thinks of himself and glory and the entire movie is about him coming to terms with becoming humble. Throw in Loki's own crisii of where he belongs and who's side he's even really on. And you have a damn good movie.
Seriously, see Thor.
Also everyone in the Cinema found it funny that they showed trailers for Green Lantern and Captain America back to back.
I wont spoil the stinger at the end, but lets just say the tag line that 'Thor will return in The Avengers' just led everyone to going "No Shit!"
Actually I'd say that LoEG is a pretty good example of a gritty reboot, even though I quite enjoyed it. Black Dosiier was pretty upbeat though.Axolotl said:
From Hell on the other hand... I don't think that it's possible to do Jack the Ripper without grimdark. It's a story about a guy killing and dismembering several prostitutes. I don't think Moore made it any more or less disturbing then it already was.
No denying that. But it is a campy batman movie, and it sucked. The other campy batman movies also happened to suck.lord.jeff said:
There's a pattern there - now it doesn't mean a good campy batman is movie is impossible to do, but it does show that 'dark and gritty' batman works. And if it works, why not do it? Why rail against it? There is room for dark and gritty in media.
Batman: The Brave and the Bold isn't a 'live action' movie.
Agreed entirely...although I think there's a more complex dynamic going on here than Bob has addressed: the power of marketing. Movies like Transformers walk a weird line, trying to appeal to three levels of audience: the kids, who like the toys; teens, who like action and sex; and the parents, who liked the toys as kids, sex and action as teens, and now want to feel vaguely entertained while they haul their kids and teens in to see the movie. Only the hardcore nerd-geek fans who don't (usually) don't have kids and are still suffering from arrested development get all worked up over whether or not the movie reaches their comfort zone of perceived "maturity."
The point I made was about life action movies I suppose. Like I said, as far Batman (live action) movie go, dark and gritty has been proved to work... campy, well, Schumacher failed miserably at it. Keep in mind I have never claimed it couldn't be made or couldn't work... I don't personally think it could to be honest, but I've certainly been wrong before.lord.jeff said:
Cartoon and comic books in general are better medium for campiness than anything live action. It's much easier to have 'campy' become cheesy or over the stuff when it's real people doing it. I'm fully aware that they are more 'four color' batman comic out there who works very well.
I saw Thor the other week; and it took me back to the first time I saw 'Superman' when I was 10. This character is larger than life, he fills any room he walks into. Although the two have a different journey to take, both movies concerned themselves with building up the hero.
As for the subject at hand; certain heroes lend themselves to the grim and gritty set, Batman is one, Spawn is another. However, such an approach is not appropriate for Superman, or Captain Marvel.
In Thor's case it also helped to make his triumphant return to his full status by movie's end far more appealing. Even the romance doesn't suck, but best of all, its not a totally happy ending. The ending is a good one, but is more bittersweet.
As for the subject at hand; certain heroes lend themselves to the grim and gritty set, Batman is one, Spawn is another. However, such an approach is not appropriate for Superman, or Captain Marvel.
Umm yes it did. Marvel filed for bankruptcy and Valiant went under. The industry hasn't made the same amount of money in years.Scrumpmonkey said:
Tv tropes has a pretty good article on it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatComicsCrashOf1996
If you want to see an example of the Avengers done well with all the siliness you mentioned above PLUS a socialite, a nuerotic but outstanding scientist, an EVIL a.i., a foreign King, a being of living energy, AND an egotist deadeye secret agent (okay a couple of those) then you should check out Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. It's a series that just debuted this year and I can't wait to get it on DVD. It NAILS what superhero stories are all about to me.Lord_Kristof said:
Just throwing that out there. (It's worth it just for the Wasp's performance actually.)
Bob, I think this ep. was your Magnum Opus. Seriously man, thank you for saying what I've been thinking and debating with my friends ever since DCs poorly chosen "let the fans decide if Robin lives or dies" campaign which heralded the end of my comic collecting days. Well done. I couldn't say it any better, so I won't say any more. Bravo Zulu m'man!
