The Big Picture: Junk Drawer: Reloaded

[Ramzal]

-snip-

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Dude, you punched a hobo lady? That's harsh.

Yes. Yes it is. However, I don't like being attacked. Namely by people throwing an object at me. One that could have seriously injured me. And honestly, that was me -not- being sexist or looking down on women. If you are a woman and you a brave enough to attack someone with a weapon, you a brave enough to receive retaliation. I take no glee in the fact that I had to hit someone in a situation like that.

However, I have a right to defend myself against anyone, age, sex, and race disregarded.

Anyway, your examples are terrible, exception made of getting paid less based on prejudice, which is pretty lame. I don't really think there's sexism involved in people assuming the big guy is posing the physical threat to the two women (one of which had been punched in the gut by the guy, mind you)

How is that not sexist? They assumed I was in the wrong because I was a man. And yes, I did hit her. It was a quick and easy way to end a conflict without stretching it out and risking anyone being seriously hurt. What if she had a knife and I were going to try and restrain her? I could have been maimed or killed for the sake of stupid Draconian honor system that never really existed.

Again, if I did anything else, I could have been hurt/killed and she could have gotten a worse punishment than being put in jail for a time. Like her going to prison. If anything, the opposite decision is underestimating the opposite sex just because---*GASP*---It's a woman! That would have been sexist. A punch to the stomach only bugs you for about an hour. A stab to the chest is either months of pain or seconds of it depending on the outcome.

and your video store example is actually pretty sexist... towards women. The fact that you just happened to not be hired for the job doesn't make the reasoning behind it less demeaning to the girls being hired to show some cleavage. I'd say that last one is just screwed up... but it's a pretty darn huge stretch to extrapolate some form of discrimination against men out of it.

Yeah, it was sexist towards women. And men too. If a woman came to a job and asked to be hired and she was basically told "No, because you're not a man" it'd be sexist. But because I'm a man, it's not sexist. Wow. Nice double standard you got there. That's one point for equality there.

For the record, you're also amazingly unlucky, apparently. Let me scour my own memories to find similar examples.

Let's see... never punched hobo ladies, so no luck there... There's that one time the scared conservative dad wouldn't let me share a flat with his daughter lest I impregnate her by sharing a kitchen... aaaaand... coming up empty here...

...

Nope, nothing.

Not even in friends of mine. Or friends of friends. I think one of them once got turned down for a lingerie store job he had applied to half jokingly. But no, nothing else.

Different experiences for people who live in different areas, cultures, and lives. I've never went out on a date with a fashion model, but I wouldn't try to discredit someone because I never have. That was pretty rude of you.

If that doesn't come through, what I'm saying here is "don't extrapolate anecdotal experience". And also "you're reading your own opinions on the subject in unrelated situations". Which, to be fair, might be how you get cops and security so keen on arresting you every now and then.

Now it's my turn to be rude back. Those were two situations, jerk. You make it sound as if it's common and turn the experience back at me as a weapon in an attempt to discredit. Which is a tactic worthy of a politician. It's clear your goal is not to listen or educate. Or even bring a different opinion or point of view but rather to shut down any opinion that is not lined with yours. That's regrettably narrow minded. :/

In both my examples, I was not aggressive.

Also, come to think of it, genuine question, how the hell did you attract security by "asking her to stay out of it without scowling or yelling"? Bad vibes?

Mainly because she was yelling at me. After I asked her to calm down several times. I don't mean to sound like "That guy" but I'll risk it anyways. I've heard tones like yours before. If you are female (Strong probability here) you lean more towards the opinion that women are inherently weaker than men in every way possible and need to either be defended at all times by other women or a knight in shining armor.

An outlook like that has got to be the most discrediting of all -to- women. You're making a mistake that Movie Bob is constantly making without meaning to. Coming to the defense of something that point frankly doesn't even need defending. Or asked for it for that matter. I've heard of no major african american movements against Deus Ex's character. You know why?

Because there are african americans who talk that way. So, how can something be racist when the race itself projects it self in a similar way. Furthermore, how can something be sexist when it shows no actual insult towards women in general? Seriously, how is this a sexist portrayal of how women are nothing more than sex objects.

When there's this:

And how can people say that this character is an inaccurate portrayal of how some african american's speak or carry themselves:

When you've got this?

I swear, it's like screaming "FIRE!" when there isn't one.

I'd really -really- love Movie Bob to respond to anything that I've put down in this thread.

 

[Jachwe]

[...]

Honestly you are wrong. You have had some good points over the course of the argument but all of a sudden your sexist view cracks through. You are the kind of person who only thinks women can be disciminated against. Yes you mention you just generalized it but acknowledge the opposit to be true. As in "I know there are men that are discriminated against but they are not important in the whole equality movement. They can unlike women watch after themselves" Once there is a sexist opinion about men and women involved it is only the women that are discriminated against. This attitude itself is sexist in the believe women are the ones that need the extra protection in (I assume american) society. That itsels is sexist. You ahve to admit it to get past your childish viewpoint of a pink colored world of discrimination against, and only against, women. You try to convince yourself to be better than you opponent by pointing out he punched a woman and you never retorting to such means. Because violence is bad or because it is a woman? Following your argument I am not sure. You have a too sexist view on things for me to deny the very real possiblility that you might realy just follow suit with hundred years old picture of society. Men are strong and women need to be protected.
You have not only to point out that there is hard evidence in statistics that women are more often victimized by men than the other way around but you also have to deliver said proclaimed evidence. Given the evidence that is a fair argument when talking about police arriving at a scene and following a procedure that states the men being the first to be beware of. But it does not explain your warped view about men not getting a job because there is sexism at the workplace against women. Sexism is a from of discrimination based on gender. Now you have to explain how women are discriminated against for getting work. Then the same goes for heavy industry work. Men are getting discriminated against for getting work and not the women getting said work. Oh unlucky discriminated people we are. No we're not. You are just a hypocrite.

 

[bluepilot]

yay, Rainbow Brite re-release.

One can only hope. I used to love that show...It had a Rainbow Horse.

I agree with Bob on the whole feminism issue though. It seems there is a trend these days to demonize feminists based on the opinions and actions of a few hardcore individuals. This is rather the equivalent of declaring all males to be rapists (rather ironically so).

There are a lot of women out there who use the laws they have to their own benefit. They use the childcare laws to punish the fathers of their children, use the benefit laws to raise their multiple offspring whilst not working and basically screw themselves, their children, society and their whole family over. But on the other hand their are plenty of deadbeat fathers out there too.

Both sexes are as equally bad as each other and until we stop blaming each other and tackling the real problems society has then this will continue. Alcoholic parents, drug taking parents, fetal alcohol syndrome, prostitution, child abuse are not the cause of a sick society, they are the symptoms.

In the meantime, women still get paid less then men, men do not get the same paternity rights of of women, women are more likely to suffer from domestic abuse, men feel too embarrassed to report domestic abuse, women are more likely to be raped, men are more likely to get accused of rape guilty or not, more male soldiers die in war, more female citizens get raped in war.

We all suffer together, and anyone who uses feminism as a superficial platform to condemn women who campaign for equal wages, justice in long-term domestic abuse cases, changes in the way a rape-trial is performed, rights for single mothers, and justice for women abroad who are raped in war are fully within their rights to do so. If certain individuals think is is unfair, then they are also perfectly within their rights to play for the other team.

The condemnation of feminists among the gaming community should stop. Many feminists fight for the issues I have mentioned above, and the tiny minority who declare "men are inferior" and such-like, are not the mark by which feminists should be defined and judged.

 

[Ursinedriver]

I know I'm about five days late for this, and the topic seems to have moved onto feminism and its definition, but I just want to put my two cents out there on racism in games or anything for that matter. The most annoying thing for me is when people try to make a big deal out of what is perceived as racist, when people of that race by and large don't give a fuck. My main example is not a game, but the movie the princess and the frog, where they had to change the name from the frog princess, because apparently somewhere someone once called a black person a frog in a disrespectful way. Maybe I'm way off on this, and maybe it's just the demographic of black people I talked to (mostly friends and family, so people I live around) But we weren't offended by the title (a few people were offended that the first black princess spent most of the movie as a frog, but eh...) I guess my point is you can't realy discount the argument nobody in the offended demographic actually gives a fuck, when it is a legitamate fact.

 

[RTR]

Am I the only one who thinks it would be hilarious for Bob to talk for five minutes about Friendship is Magic? Just me?
Speaking of which, what Bob meant was that given how FiM is such a big meme right now, Hollywood's gonna pick up on it and make new shows based on old girl targeted franchises but cover them in web humor, right?

 

[Mr. Death]

Now, although I stand for equality between genders, and agree with the twilight thing mentioned in the video, we must at least agree that feminists are just the female equivalent of male chauvinism. Again, although I stand firm on equality, and am completely against discrimination, I unfortunately have come to the conclusion that as long as there are feminists, there can be male chauvinists. In the west at least there is equality, and I shall listen to no argument on the contrary. In quite a few cases actually, women have the upper hand. Same way as is mentioned in the video: as long as there are people against female videogame characters, so can there be people opposed to the twilight characters. Similarly as long as there are feminists b!tching about equality, where women have the upper hand, I refuse to stand up against chauvinists (except in the most extreme of cases, obviously). Because truly, there is a degree of truth in feminism, although it is vastly outweighed by the hyper-feministic cr@p, and female supremasism, and try all you want, but I very much doubt you can disagree with what is say with some proof to uphold your opinions.

 

[XelaisPWN]

If I remember correctly, Hasbro is already working on improving Pound Puppies given the popularity of FiM.

That said, if anyone thinks they can reboot an old 80's cartoon and throw in a lolcat and instantly get a big fanbase, they're totally missing what made FiM so popular.

 

[Skaven252]

I don't get it... why should one party be allowed to continue complaining, while another party is told to "shut the f*** up"? Isn't that kind of, how should I put it, double standard? Why can't both parties just have their girls in skimpy outfits and their Twilight and what not, and either both stop complaining, or both are allowed to complain? Wouldn't that be more fair?

About the male image in games (for males), here is an interesting Humon illustration on the subject:
The male body, as it is drawn by different groups [http://humon.deviantart.com/art/The-Male-Body-157899525]
(click the "download" button to get the image bigger so it's easier to read the text)

As in, the male characters in these games, while impossibly muscled, are that way not for attractiveness for girls, but for power. They are power fantasies. If they were meant to be attractive to women, they would look quite different.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Thank You! It always pisses me off when people don't understand the meaning of feminism and seem to swap it in and out when what they really meant was 'crazy *****.'

A feminist =/= a crazy *****.

While it isn't always the case, you are wrong to say that there aren't any people who fit the description [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dworkin]