The Big Picture: Maddening

[Caliostro]

But did he see it as "torture" or just "entertainment" with animals?

Doesn't matter. He can honestly see it as doing them a favor for all I care. I'd still hang him by his testicles over a pit of spikes and fire ants.

...Then use him as a piñata.

Some vegan pointed out how we are fine with keeping farm animals in terrible conditions,

"We"? I'm not. I'd research the cocksuckers in front of those companies to be beaten to death inside a boxing bag full of broken glass and gusty nails if it was up to me, so go ask someone else about it.

 

[Wrds]

You know, Bob you spend a lot of time calling yourself a jaded fool or something to that effect. But when it comes down to it a lot of your opinions really betray that, what I believe to be, a misconception. This is a prime example of such.

I don't believe Vick is irredeemable. But EA should indeed do the tactful thing and not in any way shape or form do something that could possibly be perceived as supporting or endorsing his previous conduct.

 

[ryo02]

if you committed any ANY serious crime you shouldnt be on the cover of anything period.

also I havent played a sports game since the 80's and even that was just to see if I liked them or not ... I dont.

 

[Voiles]

I applaud this.

All for it.

 

[Acenamedvlad]

As much as I respect your opinion Bob I have to strongly disagree. As you said before a lot of NFL players are, or have been criminals at some point. Half of them serve jail time and then come back into the game like nothing happened without making amends to their fans or the organization for instance (Pacman Jones). Vick did the opposite. He has done a lot more than just throw, run and, catch since he's been out. He's been a leader of his community and is serving exactly how his league wants all of their players to. The madden cover is just to show who gets all of the hype in the year and Vick still calls a lot of hype. He has become another honorable face of the league because of what he has done on and off the field even after his arrest.

And just to clarify things Vick wasn't involved in the treatment of the dogs aside from the fact that they used his home for it. He's from the dirty south where most people can turn a blind eye to even a murder. He didn't take part in it besides owning the facility where most likely his "old friends" could make money and hold a dog fighting ring. Sure Vick should have said no but all they were going to do was use his how. The fact the fact that he was a public figure as a pro athlete is what got him the major trial and jail time. Vick grew up in a ghetto of course there would be "old ghosts" of his previous life to haunt him at some point. Would it have mattered so much if they held a ton of drugs in his house, or contraband or even ran a brothel? I don't think so as long as he makes amends properly and proves he really isn't part of that crowd.

I'm a big fan of yours bob but this is the first video I disagree with.

 

[Saltyk]

Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.

Are you seriously comparing dog fighting to hunting and fishing? When you hunt or fish, you are required to prepare, and wait for extended periods of time. It takes patience, knowledge and skill. Also, both activities are heavily regulated by the government. Hunters are required to have a license and only allowed to hunt during certain times with certain weapons. And if a Game Warden discovers you hunting during the wrong season, or without a license, or any other infraction like having too many kills, be prepared to lose your license and face any number of penalties.

Oh, and hunters and fishermen are known to do more to support wildlife than any other group. They give more money, and their organizations do more to fight to protect wilderness and wildlife than pretty much any other group. Also, every hunter I've ever talked to truly respects and enjoys nature.

By the way. I don't hunt or fish. I find both to be boring and I refuse to wake up early enough to do either activity.

Are you saying that it doesn't take patience, knowledge or skill to dogfight? I imagine the husbandry and training for the dogs are quite complex and require a lot of time, money and skill. If governments regulated dog-fighting the way they do hunting or fishing, would it be seen as acceptable? Probably not. If Michael Vick gave generously to animal rescue organizations would we see what he had done as ok? I understand how the two things seem different and in many ways they are. I think dog-fighting is probably worse than hunting. But I do feel they are similar enough that when movie bob condemns Michael Vick to what it seemed to me was being permanently ostracized, he's being a little hypocritical if he owns a hunting and fishing license. That's all I'm saying.

Well, I disagree. The differences are pretty stark. Hunters have to seek out and wait for the animals they kill. In fact, most governments condone hunting as it keeps local animal populations in check. case in point, in my state it is legal to hunt deer during certain seasons. Part of the reason for this is that deer don't really have any natural predators. Hunting keeps the population from growing too wild preventing the animals from starving (too many deer not enough food). It also prevents car accidents to an extent. Ever hit a deer? Yeah, that's no bug.

Those that conduct dog fights, purchase the animals and "train" them to attack, and even kill, other dogs. Something that I already mentioned is not in their nature. And what you referred to as training is really just torture (maybe I referred to it as training in my full post, I'm not really sure). I fail to see any skill in dog fighting. Its basically organized animal abuse for entertainment. Anyone who treated their animals in such a manner, would have the police at their door asking questions and probably have Animal Welfare coming for their animals.

Bottom line is that Hunting involves seeking out an animal in the wild. A wild, sometimes dangerous animal, in their natural habitat and killing it. Most hunters eat their kills, too. Hunting serves a number of purposes. Dog fighting involves taking a innocent domestic animal and forcing it to do something that it would never do through torture and abuse. All in the name of "fun" and gambling. In my mind, there is a world of difference between the two.

And I would fight any effort to legalize dog fighting. It is sick and depraved.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinion. Didn't mean to come off confrontation, if I did. I can actually understand you not liking either. I'm just trying to point out that hunting is not anywhere near as bad as dog fighting. At least, in my book.

 

[briunj04]

The only plausible reason for why EA let Michael Vick into the running for the cover of Madden 2012 in the first place is because they wanted the publicity that critics are going to give them. But I'm not sure why any sane Madden fan would want to have Vick to be the person to represent their favorite game franchise.

I swear, people are all crazy

 

[Mxrz]

This is a bit much.

You got a huge double standard going here. What sets dogs apart from chickens, cows, birds, mice, squirrels, fish, etc. that we kill/eat every single day? They're cuddly? Pffh. I love cats, and I think people who hurt mistreat them deserve a special place in hell, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't anything other than my own bias as a chow down on a porkchop.

You also seem a bit misinformed about Vick and what went down. It's pretty easy to go "He tortured Dogs!' and fly off on some emotional reaction and leave it at that. Saying Vick "just throws and catches the ball" a lot is another uninformed bit. Might want to look into just how much community stuff this guy has done since coming back. He fucked up any way you cut it, and the guilt is something he'll be carrying from now on. But no, he isn't worse than fucking Hitler.

The other bit. . .if we're going to take a moral stand on an NFL player . . .how about the motherfucking rapists? You cool with Roethlisberger being on the cover then? I mean, he didn't kill a dog, right? Hey, he didn't even go to prison. He must be innocent.

You dismiss PETA, but then you go and act exactly how you claim they do. It rings a little hollow. Lastly, if you or people don't like Madden or the NFL all that much, then why in the hell would you even care who's on the cover? That's straight up moral fascism. "I Have no interest or knowledge in this, but MY beliefs shall dictate what is allowable!!!"

 

[Swarles]

This is why the internet is a dick. NEVER put a poll on the internet with the possibility of that monster getting a prize. The internet will vote for him like crazy to see if EA has the guts to put him on the cover. Seems like the only reasonable big name publisher these days is Zenimax.

 

[emeraldrafael]

The other bit. . .if we're going to take a moral stand on an NFL player . . .how about the motherfucking rapists? You cool with Roethlisberger being on the cover then? I mean, he didn't kill a dog, right? Hey, he didn't even go to prison. He must be innocent.

Big Ben was never convicted in either of his crimes (the Tahoe one was written off as ***** be crazy, and the second well... There's a lot of gray area in that one, but that thing had no right blaming him when she was some drunken backwoods skank who was underage, in a bar, with fake id, drinking, with DTF written on a "my name is ________" card). Also, he's never been on the cover, and (this year at least) isnt even in the voting.

Troy Polamalu was on the cover (and the only Steeler to do so so far), but he shared that with Larry Fitzgerald (which was the NFL's way of appeasing everyone cause whenever the Steelers win a Superbowl, everyone says they cheat their way through it somehow even though is all mostly unfounded).

So yeah, for all intensive purposes, Ben is innocent. Goodel just has something against him and felt the need to be a dick. If not, the Steelers could have easily been the top team in the NFL during the regular season, and Ben the number one QB, instead of Goodel's cocksucking pretty boy Brady.

 

[Swarles]

"It's not that i don't believe in forgiveness or rehabilitation, because i do."

Clearly Bob, clearly.

You aren't perfect yourself, i don't care if you haven't done anything as bad as dog torture, but you've probably done stuff wrong.

My suggestion, go see a counselor, you clearly have issues that require attention Bob.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me whatsoever. You probably done something wrong too, You should go see a counselor to get issues resolved.Just what your saying makes no sense.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.

Wow. Just a tad venomous here?

I agree that Vick should have been banned for life from the NFL for what he did. However, I'm hoping the Madden curse strikes him down, so it's kind of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other situation. Millionaires who get in trouble for breaking the law and then go right back to making millions of dollars for playing a stupid game get no sympathy from me though.

 

[elmo360]

To tell u the truth Bob does have some good points. However, these men are not there to be looked at as some kind of saint. Players of all others sports, football, basketball whatever, have beat their wives, have dui charges, are known for taking steroids i mean the list goes on and on. Dont get me wrong i like dogs, but there have been players who have done bad things to living HUMAN beings and still get all kinds of endorsements. If Mike tyson can have his own game after what he did to his wife the vick should have the possibility to be on a madden game cover. Besides its not like anyone here cares anyway its ea and its sports sooo IDGAF

 

[Takeda Shingen]

Big Ben was never convicted in either of his crimes (the Tahoe one was written off as ***** be crazy, and the second well... There's a lot of gray area in that one, but that thing had no right blaming him when she was some drunken backwoods skank who was underage, in a bar, with fake id, drinking, with DTF written on a "my name is ________" card).

...

So yeah, for all intensive purposes, Ben is innocent. Goodel just has something against him and felt the need to be a dick. If not, the Steelers could have easily been the top team in the NFL during the regular season, and Ben the number one QB, instead of Goodel's cocksucking pretty boy Brady.

Ok sir, blame the victim then. Of course, she was asking for it. *facepalm*

I find the first statement so depressing on so many levels. These kinds of statements not only fuel the enabling of abuses carried out by powerful people like Ben and Vick, but they also create ridiculous double standards. Not to mention make light of rape. And did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Ben got off easier (at least in the court of popular opinion) partially because of his skin color?

I don't question the suspension, I just wish Roger would be more consistent and fair with his penalties. The discipline measures make no sense. And while the NFL is at it, why don't they build programs to encourage responsibility and character amongst all players? Then we might not have these constant tales of active players doing wrong and of retired players slowly dying in miserable, lonely poverty.

Brady's a pretty boy. I can't like him. But I respect him more as an athlete and a man than Ben. They may both have multiple rings, but Brady's a more complete QB, he's got more records, and he's a bigger part of the Pats' success then Ben is to the Steelers. And he's not a rapist.

 

[Takeda Shingen]

It's fair to say that EA really bungled this one. I can get behind the idea that it might have been better for everyone involved if Vick had not been placed into the running for the cover.

Still, if he gets it, keep in mind that he was given the opportunity to compete for that cover because he played an amazing football season. Madden is, after all, a football game. Vick getting the cover doesn't wash away his past, doesn't mean we (or history) will forget everything about him save his game. Nor should we.

And if this many of you strongly oppose Vick getting the cover, get over to ESPN and vote for Adrian Peterson.

While you are at it, vote for Peyton Hillis. That man played a monster of a season, carried the Browns. His stats are astonishing, especially considering the Browns are trying to rebuild (who knows how well that effort is going). Watch his highlights against the Pats, it's awesome. Denver gave him up, and Hillis turned into a great success story. If anyone deserves the cover, he does.

Besides, he's young and has plenty of time to recover from the curse.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Big Ben was never convicted in either of his crimes (the Tahoe one was written off as ***** be crazy, and the second well... There's a lot of gray area in that one, but that thing had no right blaming him when she was some drunken backwoods skank who was underage, in a bar, with fake id, drinking, with DTF written on a "my name is ________" card).

...

So yeah, for all intensive purposes, Ben is innocent. Goodel just has something against him and felt the need to be a dick. If not, the Steelers could have easily been the top team in the NFL during the regular season, and Ben the number one QB, instead of Goodel's cocksucking pretty boy Brady.

Ok sir, blame the victim then. Of course, she was asking for it. *facepalm*

I find the first statement so depressing on so many levels. These kinds of statements not only fuel the enabling of abuses carried out by powerful people like Ben and Vick, but they also create ridiculous double standards. Not to mention make light of rape. And did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Ben got off easier (at least in the court of popular opinion) partially because of his skin color?

I don't question the suspension, I just wish Roger would be more consistent and fair with his penalties. The discipline measures make no sense. And while the NFL is at it, why don't they build programs to encourage responsibility and character amongst all players? Then we might not have these constant tales of active players doing wrong and of retired players slowly dying in miserable, lonely poverty.

Brady's a pretty boy. I can't like him. But I respect him more as an athlete and a man than Ben. They may both have multiple rings, but Brady's a more complete QB, he's got more records, and he's a bigger part of the Pats' success then Ben is to the Steelers. And he's not a rapist.

What? Why should Ben be punished when all the evidence was word of mouth, it was all against her, and she was breaking laws already? The girl had no business there, if you where a nametag saying DTF, and then willing accept things from the guy you're blaming raped you, there's no rape.* especially since it wasnt even a rape charge in the end, it was a sexual harrassment charge or something like that. Besides, I never blamed her, just said that that case was so mishandled and misrepresented. There's no reason why she shouldnt have been punished and in jail for what she was doing anyway. But no one goes after her.

As for the woman in Tahoe, there was absolutely no case there at all, and no evidence at all pointing to it. She was gold digging, plain and simple. YOu couldnt even ARGUE that case, thats why it was dropped. Perhaps before you go making such unfounded statements, you should look into the details of the case.

And why are you making this a race thing? There's quote a difference between ACCUSED and CONVICTED. Thats why ben shouldnt have even been suspended, cause he was never convicted. Do you know how many convicted felons play in the NFL and werent punished? Or even worse, how many are accused?

Also, no, Bill Belocheck (or however you spell it) makes the Pats who they are with his cheating ways of videotaping other team's practices. And Brady hardly makes his team. he has plenty of extra talent there. Ben makes the plays. Who do they have after ben? Dennis Dixon? he's shit. Charlie Batch? He's fucking worse. They got Leftwich, but he's not staying, and in the end, he's no Ben. Offensively, Roethlisberger makes that team. Ben runs, Ben Passes. He makes the time, runs the routes. He makes gold out of shit, while brady just has to throw. Ben Plays physical, he wont be likely to be out, and he'll keep getting up, keep coming back for more. He's a big man, and he's hard to bring down. He shrugs off tackles like its flies, while Brady crumbles.

I'd gladly and easily take Ben or even Rodgers (cause they play a similar style) then Brady anyday. Brady in the end is only as good as his team. Ben is better. He's won far more games for the Steelers then Brady has for the Pats that you could say without a doubt.

*EDIT: Yes, I understand the definition of rape. If you say no at any point and it continues, its rape. Theoretically, you could have a man/woman on the verge of releasing and say no, and if they do release, its rape. But that girl showed no signs of being raped. She showed no effort to stop it. The Main witness (the bodyguard at that) said that she didnt. She was not raped. She was gold digging.

 

[moviedork]

The guy did something stupid based on how we was raised. Do I support it? Absolutely not. Is it the worst crime a person, let alone athlete, has ever committed? Not even close. However he did serve his time, as well as lost a lot of money including all of his endorsements. We live in America where we embrace redemption stories as well as second chances. Why can't we give Vick a second chance.

 

[Takeda Shingen]

Again, vote Peyton Hillis!

 

[Takeda Shingen]

*EDIT: Yes, I understand the definition of rape. If you say no at any point and it continues, its rape. Theoretically, you could have a man/woman on the verge of releasing and say no, and if they do release, its rape. But that girl showed no signs of being raped. She showed no effort to stop it. The Main witness (the bodyguard at that) said that she didnt. She was not raped. She was gold digging.

I did not question the details of the case, the verdict, or condone her being in the bar. Rather, I find your description of the woman involved misogynistic and blatantly disrespectful (DTF...really?). As if one could almost condone they way Ben treated her. Yes, Ben wasn't convicted, and his charge was sexual harassment. Just as many people in this forum take violence against dogs seriously, I take violence against women seriously. Ben should know better. Way better. I do agree that there are people out there who do try to take advantage of wealthy celebrities, who play on society's willingness to believe a story of sexual misconduct. The bottom line is rape is a heinous crime and sexual harassment is despicable, and there are no excuses whatsoever for those kinds of actions. None.

The Steelers did just fine without Ben for the first four games of the season. The defense carries that team, and the defense thrives chiefly because of Troy. He's way more valuable than Ben. Not to mention the Steelers are one of the most run heavy teams in the league. Ben has the admirable ability to shake off much of the damage that comes his way, but I do not trust his football acumen as much as I would trust Brady (or Manning, Brees, or Rodgers for that matter...perhaps even a few other QBs).

Bill certainly made the Pats who they are today. His roster is so stacked that he can replace pretty much anyone on the field with another qualified athlete. Except Brady. He is the central cog to that team. Limiting Brady's production through the air, confusing him, and getting in his face is the first key to beating the Pats. On the other hand, if you shut down Ben, the Steelers can just move over to the run, or kill you with defense.