The Big Picture: Maddening
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
pretty much this.millertime059 said:
I know alot of people who have... bad life choices. Did there time and have been released. They have become better people and gotten on with there lives. We can't deny people that option of just moving on.
Tell us Bob, why doesn't 'he has served his time' count?
I hope he loses tbh, he is clearly no role model, but he has done his time and as far as we know is rehibilated.
Bob I'm sorry but I highly disagree with your opinion on vick. For one thing yes there animals and call me a heartless waste of life but as far as I'm concerned they don't compare to human lives. And yes I have a dog, a puppy to be more specific and if I had to leave him behind because he got trapped in a fire or buried in a cave. That sucks but guess what there is such a thing as moving on.
2) Your taking his offense way too harsh, I mean you and many others act like he raped and tortured little kids. I think 2 years in jail for some illegal dog fights is punishment enough. And remember japan, folks.... yeah there still in deep shit, and I think that should be more high up on the priority list of concerns then some nfl player.
Everyone needs to settle down, he served his ridiculously long term and regardless of his stupid decisions. At this point I could care less. (didn't really care much then either) I bet if he wasn't a black or an NFL player he probably would have gotten off easy. But whatever the reason justice was served, just let the man play, and let him advertise himself.
At least the Mike Vick haters can spit on the cover.
2) Your taking his offense way too harsh, I mean you and many others act like he raped and tortured little kids. I think 2 years in jail for some illegal dog fights is punishment enough. And remember japan, folks.... yeah there still in deep shit, and I think that should be more high up on the priority list of concerns then some nfl player.
Everyone needs to settle down, he served his ridiculously long term and regardless of his stupid decisions. At this point I could care less. (didn't really care much then either) I bet if he wasn't a black or an NFL player he probably would have gotten off easy. But whatever the reason justice was served, just let the man play, and let him advertise himself.
At least the Mike Vick haters can spit on the cover.
This is hysterical nonsense
Acording to many major religions dogs and other animals dont have souls...
And the religions that do treat dogs and animals as important spiritual elements dont believe in hell.
A lot of you high and mighty folks need to get over yourselves and take a look in a mirror or at least a look around you and see if you are living a pious enough lifestyle to wish ill will upon someone.
im not going to rehash the same argument ive had 100 times ill just make it quick
Killing animals for fun whether dogfighting or hunting is a what and a what, i dont care what you say to rationalize it about being legal im sure if the dog and the moose could speak the would say the same thing.
Dogs are not humans, the only reason why they are "loyal" is because they have pack mentalities and have been bred to be domesticated would be loyal to anyone who took care of them. They dont cure diseases, they dont build houses, they dont pay taxes and they DONT HAVE SOULS!
You may not live in America, but this is the land of second chances, especially if you are economically bankable. And as backwards as it may be (I know this well because i am a Teacher who hasnt had a raise in 4 years) economics not altruism guides the amount you get paid.
So yes Vick, Charlie Sheen, Hugh Grant, Dany Heatly, Mel Gibson, R. Kelly, Micheal Jackson, Woody Allen, Robert Downy Jr, Barrack Obama, George Bush- and his wife who killed a guy! ALL GET SECOND CHANCES! Much like most Americans, its just that some second chances involve millions of dollars and some dont[/quote]
Finally somebody with some sense.
Acording to many major religions dogs and other animals dont have souls...
And the religions that do treat dogs and animals as important spiritual elements dont believe in hell.
A lot of you high and mighty folks need to get over yourselves and take a look in a mirror or at least a look around you and see if you are living a pious enough lifestyle to wish ill will upon someone.
im not going to rehash the same argument ive had 100 times ill just make it quick
Killing animals for fun whether dogfighting or hunting is a what and a what, i dont care what you say to rationalize it about being legal im sure if the dog and the moose could speak the would say the same thing.
Dogs are not humans, the only reason why they are "loyal" is because they have pack mentalities and have been bred to be domesticated would be loyal to anyone who took care of them. They dont cure diseases, they dont build houses, they dont pay taxes and they DONT HAVE SOULS!
You may not live in America, but this is the land of second chances, especially if you are economically bankable. And as backwards as it may be (I know this well because i am a Teacher who hasnt had a raise in 4 years) economics not altruism guides the amount you get paid.
So yes Vick, Charlie Sheen, Hugh Grant, Dany Heatly, Mel Gibson, R. Kelly, Micheal Jackson, Woody Allen, Robert Downy Jr, Barrack Obama, George Bush- and his wife who killed a guy! ALL GET SECOND CHANCES! Much like most Americans, its just that some second chances involve millions of dollars and some dont[/quote]
Finally somebody with some sense.
Yeah this isn't my post i messed up trying to quote someone else.AvauntVanguard said:
I'm a christian, I do think dogs have souls but dogs will never be of higher importance compared to humans.
Don't care what anyone says, I'll say it loud and proud even in the face of animal activist.
I totally agree with what was said here (from the EA soaking people every year to Mike Vick not deserving the cover of Madden 12 ). Although I highly doubt he got his hands dirty with the dog fighting ring (as far as killing and so forth) but i could be wrong, he most likely organized and had the money to back this depraved pass time. I also wont over look grilling a star athlete brings A LOT more gravity and press to something that goes on in just about every major metropolitan area as well as most small towns. He was made to be an example, and rightly so. The comparison of farmers raising cows for slaughter to feed society as well as afford to take care of their families is a weak argument, and if that is how you rationalize your dog fighting past time...well...DIAF. Personally Him and Ray Lewis (he actually killed someone!!!) should be rotting in a cell, not getting the opportunity to make millions and have influence on the youth of the world, let alone make it to the Hall of Fame... it only takes away from all the players that came before them. Oh and being from Pittsburgh i wont weigh in on any of the Steelers (Big Ben) talk, what he did is no different then a lot of men do, the only difference hes a 2 time Super Bowl champion millionaire, and the rest of us are not. Oh and PATS are a bunch of cheats who's rings are a lie, and even though I'm not a Giants fan way to go ruining the perfect season and bringing another championship to New York. Before its brought up loosing to Green Bay in the Superbowl was not as bitter as finding out you where cheated in 2 AFC championships, and Green Bay was the better team that day plain and simple.
Finally somebody with some sense.[/quote]II2none said:
Really... As much as what you say is wrapped in the guise of a truth, you take all the religion out of it your comparison of hunting and dog fighting being in the same ball park shows you obviously have no idea about either. We don't torture the moose during it upbringing to fight another moose only to kill the looser. True hunters make clean kills in a single shot and show humanity by not letting them suffer, all dog fighting is from the moment the puppy is born is suffering. And as far as people killing people goes religion has had a pretty dark past in that respect.
Really... As much as what you say is wrapped in the guise of a truth, you take all the religion out of it your comparison of hunting and dog fighting being in the same ball park shows you obviously have no idea about either. We don't torture the moose during it upbringing to fight another moose only to kill the looser. True hunters make clean kills in a single shot and show humanity by not letting them suffer, all dog fighting is from the moment the puppy is born is suffering. And as far as people killing people goes religion has had a pretty dark past in that respect.[/quote]Groundchuck said:
take it up with feeqmatic, I didn't quote correctly.
My opinion in short is : He paid for his crimes, let him be.
Finally somebody with some sense.[/quote]II2none said:
what does religion have to do with any of this? first off even if that was a valid arguement most people on this site are athiests (smartly) so your not even going to pull any heartstrings with that eiter so really, what was the point of even bringing religion into this?
and if you do want to start bringing the value of life arguements into this and i can do that: so if life has different assigned values then who decides these values? a god? well if your going to say a god then i dont know how you could know that, a god could easily value an animal that doesnt fuck eachother for fun, pick on eachother to make the other animals feel bad, destroy the earth because the animals need new apartment complexes, kill for fun, or engage in wars because they dont like what the other animals are saying, hell if i was a god humanity would be one of the things that i would immediately destroy, and if their isnt a god and these values are just magically assigned then what about humans? its mark zuckerbergs life worth more than that girl who works at the diner uptown? while yes she is a nice person an all and mark zuckerberg has doen some dickish things he did move us forward technology and start connecting people across the globe with facebook, what about your life and an peace corp worker? yes you may be a teacher but this guy is devoting his life to making the world a better place
you cant just decide what life is valued more than other life(espcially without a ruling figure either a king or god and we have no global king and as stated earlier god is nonexistent in my mind and most other peoples mind on this site
Not my post I quoted wrong im the one that said :finally someone with some sense.
But Dude seriously its called common sense, who's more important someone you care for a some cat.
So your pretty much telling me that the people who raised and care for you are of equal importance as livestock? your telling me your friends are the equivalent of a rhino or a lion or even a fly?
I'll never understand this mentality.
But Dude seriously its called common sense, who's more important someone you care for a some cat.
So your pretty much telling me that the people who raised and care for you are of equal importance as livestock? your telling me your friends are the equivalent of a rhino or a lion or even a fly?
I'll never understand this mentality.
I dont disagree with the fact, not all life is equal, in fact I am under the belief that humans are number one and that animals are just part of the food chain we comfortably sit atop of. That said, its not the act of the dogs dying that really gets me, its the mentality of a person who trains and fights the dogs themselves. These are very disturbed people that obviously struggle with some sort of mental issue (wether learned or inherited). Just as children torturing a household pet is a early sign that your kid maybe a serial killer, some way this has to fit in their somewhere. For me its not the end result that bugs me its the utter disregard for life in general, be it a human or animal regardless of there position in the world as we see it. He did serve time and for that i agree with you, but my problem is that he will never live this down in a lot of peoples eyes and it will always come up in conversations about him, so for the youth it sets a president that if your good at a sport and moderately successful (not like he has any superbowl rings) you can be held to a different standard regardless of what you may do in your private life, just like you said about this being the land of second chances, all of your examples are of celebs and politicians, so for everyone of those examples theirs a hundred John and Jane Smiths rotting in jail for the same offenses that did have the social or economical means to get their way out of it. But that is life and to me you seem like the kind of guy i could sit an have a beer with so i kindly respect your opinion although i don't fully agree.
Cheers
And sorry about the quote thing my bad...
Cheers
And sorry about the quote thing my bad...
I learned in Sociology 101 that one of the ways to guage the quality of a country's people and government is how it treats it's most vulnerable; Among these are the young, the old, the infirm, and animals. In other words animal cruelty doesn't just reflect poorly upon the character of the purpotrator, but poorly on the character of his or her society and culture as a whole.
This, above any sentiment of forgiveness towards the guilty party or indefference twoards the victim is why crimes against animals should be punitive, and deserve harsh sancions. To compare, consider when suicide was a crime; it was anit-capitolistic; the person who just attempted to kill him or herself would have intentionally squandered the investment of time, money, and effort that had society invested into that person up until that point.
In short, just as suicide was once a crime becuase it was considered extremely deviant economically, so too is animal cruelty currently a crime because it is extremely deviant socially.
This, above any sentiment of forgiveness towards the guilty party or indefference twoards the victim is why crimes against animals should be punitive, and deserve harsh sancions. To compare, consider when suicide was a crime; it was anit-capitolistic; the person who just attempted to kill him or herself would have intentionally squandered the investment of time, money, and effort that had society invested into that person up until that point.
In short, just as suicide was once a crime becuase it was considered extremely deviant economically, so too is animal cruelty currently a crime because it is extremely deviant socially.
lizards said:
Im the orriginal poster who brought up religion.
My point for bringing up religion was that an earlier poster brought up something about spirituality or souls or something, and even compared a small dog to a small child. Im not a zealot but i was just pointing out general religious doctrine that says taht an animals life does not equate to a mans.
To clarify my point-
1- People>dogs+any other animal. This is not to say that nature is not important or anything of the like, but im not going to equate the life of a dog to the life a man.
2- Vick did a horrible thing, served his time, paid a huuuuuge debt, turned his life around, etc. You dont have to forgive or forget what he did, but to wish for his downfall and deny him the essentially human right to redemption is stupid and wrong and probably has little to do with his crime and more to do with who he is and what he represents.
3- Anyone who spouts on the evils of Vick and compares what he did to hitler while holding a hunting liscence, wearing leather, and supporting the meat packing industry is a hypocrite. Yes there are some humane elements to hunting, and surely there more merrits in hunting and eating meat than in dog fighting, but the gap isnt nearly wide enough for someone to shout from the top of their ivory tower about how horrible Mike Vick is. If you are a person who is a vegan or only eats humane/organic meat, doesnt wear leather, etc. Then at least i can respect that you have a different life perspective and we can agree to disagree. if you are not then you are full of shit.