The Big Picture: Maddening

[Seamus8]

Mike Vick can do whatever he wants to dogs under his charge and care.

Now if he were to do it to dogs under someone else's charge, they would (in my eyes) be justified in killing him, his children, or other family members. After all dogs are more valuable than humans, dogs are great companions and have other more practical uses depending on breed while humans just waste oxygen for the most part.

 

[Serioli]

You say you don't agree with PETA, but you sure sound a lot like them.

I mean, I like dogs and animals in general, I would never hit an animal - unless it was going to hurt me ofc; but you compared an illegal dog-fighter to Hitler ffs. I mean, it's immoral and a very nasty thing to do to an animal, but at the end of the day - it isn't human and it's nowhere, nowhere near as bad as hurting or torturing a human.

You're blowing this way out of proportion tbh. I mean only a subset of North Americans actually buy that game because no-one else plays the sport on the same scale. I, for example, couldn't give less of a shit about American football - I've heard the matches can go on for ~3 hours! Now THAT is torture XD

I think that you just have to keep in perspective that while this is a bad thing to do to a dog - at the end of the day, it is just a dog. I mean that in the sense that if you had to choose who would die out of:

A) A human.

or

B) A dog.

Who would you choose? Every time, right? Exactly.

It's not nice or pleasant, but it's the truth - it's called reality.

Not picking on you specifically, just the closest post to illustrate the point. I agree with your post in those exact circumstances but that is not what happened. If he had killed a dog to save himself/another human there would not be the (often hypocritical) rage.

However, a more accurate question would be:

If you had to choose who would die out of:

A) A human
B) A dog
C) Neither because it is unnecessary

Which would you choose? Every time, right? Exactly.

The animal died because he likes dog fighting. That's the rage

 

[kara_bulut]

You say you don't agree with PETA, but you sure sound a lot like them.

I mean, I like dogs and animals in general, I would never hit an animal - unless it was going to hurt me ofc; but you compared an illegal dog-fighter to Hitler ffs. I mean, it's immoral and a very nasty thing to do to an animal, but at the end of the day - it isn't human and it's nowhere, nowhere near as bad as hurting or torturing a human.

You're blowing this way out of proportion tbh. I mean only a subset of North Americans actually buy that game because no-one else plays the sport on the same scale. I, for example, couldn't give less of a shit about American football - I've heard the matches can go on for ~3 hours! Now THAT is torture XD

I think that you just have to keep in perspective that while this is a bad thing to do to a dog - at the end of the day, it is just a dog. I mean that in the sense that if you had to choose who would die out of:

A) A human.

or

B) A dog.

Who would you choose? Every time, right? Exactly.

It's not nice or pleasant, but it's the truth - it's called reality.

I would choose people like you who don't give a damn about these kind of serious things.

A former friend of mine ran over a cat. I told him to stop the car so we can check on it.
He said it's just a cat get over it. I had a fight with him that day and emmidetly cut
my conenction with him.

If one does not care for animals than that person has some serious issues in his brain.
I wouldn't trust anything of mine to some sort of person.

 

[Treblaine]

OK, I looked into this Michael Vick thing and Bob seems to imply he was snatching cute little innocent puppies off the streets, tying them up and going Silence of the Lambs

It was dog-fighting.

I mean that's pretty bad but torture at a stretch. Many dog breeds are inherently violent, bred even to ENJOY fighting, it's horrible but is not the same as something like skinning them alive or something. I mean these dogs are no babies, most of them had to be removed to separate kennels because they continued to be so violent to other dogs even after being removed from any dogfighters influence.

Also surprising how outraged all the (mostly white) commentators are and the only people to defend him are black. Hmm. I'm not saying anything but this sure is cause to step back and look at this objectively.

[sarc]Then again Bob has his expensive hunting licence and registered gun to go on his acceptable blood-sport. I guess the black man is just plain wrong with his blood sport of dog-fighting. Why can't they see which blood-sports are acceptable?[/sarc]

Dog fighting may be cruel and callous but it's not torture and it's not murder.

Bob is trying to paint a pretty nasty picture of this black sportsman, especially showing a load of high domesticated pedigree puppies and implying none of them could possibly ever deserve anything but kindness and happiness.

google search: "pit bull maul"

Look at how many results are of little children with torn up faces.

These breeds of dogs are not little angles, they are killing machines.

 

[Treblaine]

If you are completely by yourself on the road, driving too fast for the road, see the dog and not even attempt to avoid the dog you clearly see, then you are a contemptible bastard with little regard for any form of life that is not you.

It's that the humans and dogs are equal in importance of their life. It's that there is NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER THAT YOU COULD NOT ATTEMPT TO NOT KILL THAT CREATURE SAVE THE FACT YOU MAY HAVE TO SLOW DOWN AND GET TO SOME PLACE, WHICH PROBABLY ISN'T ALL THAT IMPORTANT ANYWAY, SLIGHTLY LATER.

That is what people would hold you in high contempt for. A lack of respect for life. Putting your own whims over any other creature's life. Pretty much sociopathy but to a small level you can function in society fairly well.

I got a few questions for you:

What the hell were you doing letting your dog on the streets off a leash and out of your sight? That's incredibly irresponsible and careless.

How do you know this driver did "not even attempt to avoid the dog he clearly sees" when you were not in the car with him?

Why would he stay if he couldn't do anything anyway (how many know dog CPR)?

How can you expect him to loiter around considering how angry you are?
He has every reason to fear for his own safety as you may try rearranging his teeth with a tyre iron.

"NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER THAT YOU COULD NOT ATTEMPT TO NOT KILL THAT CREATURE"

Wow, a TRIPLE negative.

"Putting your own whims over any other creature's life."

Are you vegan? If now where do you think beef and pork come from.

 

[Treblaine]

Not picking on you specifically, just the closest post to illustrate the point. I agree with your post in those exact circumstances but that is not what happened. If he had killed a dog to save himself/another human there would not be the (often hypocritical) rage.

However, a more accurate question would be:

If you had to choose who would die out of:

A) A human
B) A dog
C) Neither because it is unnecessary

Which would you choose? Every time, right? Exactly.

The animal died because he likes dog fighting. That's the rage

Well you are missing the point. He clearly said dog-killing is not as bad as human-murder (though this Big Picture sure seemed to imply they were as bad)

now you are going off on a tangent saying basically:

"Both are bad, should do neither, lets ignore the distinction between the two"

Which is kind of a conceit that they are EQUALLY bad, in response to bob's video. Which is kind of trivialising of actual murder and hyperbolic of this case.

"The animal died because he likes dog fighting."

Consider this: dog-fighting is a blood sport that used to be widely popular and is now acceptable in the impoverished black communities that Vick has come from.

Why do you think 'mid-air-plane-combat' was called "dogfighting" back in the early 20th century, because back then the practice was common enough in society.

Maybe all those poor black folk should pay $10'000 per hunting licence for the "socially accepted" blood sport of deer hunt as practised predominantly by white people.

Or maybe we all need to step back and realise that it is a bunch of white people (who had very sheltered upbringing) demonizing a black man who lived a life of poverty until comparatively recent success, and the only people who are defending him are other black people.

 

[MovieBob]

OK, I looked into this Michael Vick thing and Bob seems to imply he was snatching cute little innocent puppies off the streets, tying them up and going Silence of the Lambs

That's actually an integral part of the type of dogfighting he was involved with; they're called "bait animals," and are typically abducted pets and/or strays. You can look that up, though I'm not responsible for some of the things you'll see.

The rest of your post is so full of assumptions it's actually difficult to know where to start...

 

[Samurai Goomba]

OK, I looked into this Michael Vick thing and Bob seems to imply he was snatching cute little innocent puppies off the streets, tying them up and going Silence of the Lambs

That's actually an integral part of the type of dogfighting he was involved with; they're called "bait animals," and are typically abducted pets and/or strays. You can look that up, though I'm not responsible for some of the things you'll see.

The rest of your post is so full of assumptions it's actually difficult to know where to start...

The assumption that pit bulls were bred for dog fighting (they were) and that you eat meat and support industries which cause much more suffering to animals (albeit different animals, but pigs are at least as smart as dogs, they just taste better)?

You really do seem to be playing the part of a knee-jerk PETA reactionary type, only you're something like several years too late for this issue to even be relevant. I'm very much against dog fighting (hey, I'm against dog BREEDING, because there are already so many homeless/suffering dogs out there, and it's pretty selfish to pay bunches of money for a specific breed of puppy when you could rescue a dog from the shelter system), but the guy did the time. Maybe YOU don't think that's worth enough, but when you start threatening people via the Internet, there's little to differentiate you from the average "butthurt" troll.

Dog fighting isn't even comparable to the Holocaust. Don't even go there. Go reread MAUS, Slaughterhouse Five or whatever and rethink how dumb such a comparison would be. You might as well compare the way cows wind up on your plate to the Holocaust, because that's at least as brutal.

 

[Treblaine]

OK, I looked into this Michael Vick thing and Bob seems to imply he was snatching cute little innocent puppies off the streets, tying them up and going Silence of the Lambs

That's actually an integral part of the type of dogfighting he was involved with; they're called "bait animals," and are typically abducted pets and/or strays. You can look that up, though I'm not responsible for some of the things you'll see.

The rest of your post is so full of assumptions it's actually difficult to know where to start...

Well did Michael Vick actually do that?

He was convicted of simply dog-fighting and what I know of pit-bulls is they don't need much encouragement to fight each other - they certainly don't need encouragement to attack children and even little babies. Why do they go for the face. Anyway, I'm pretty sure if Vick had abducted some family's dog then they'd charge him with that and the family in question would be all over the news.

I mean really, black sports stars going to steal your family dog and torture it to death?

Isn't this a TAD BIT alarmist?

Yeah, it's a cruel blood sport, but it's not so unprecedented, America didn't completely ban it till 1976 and haven't enforced it well as evident by how popular the pit-bull breed remains.

 

[Treblaine]

The rest of your post is so full of assumptions it's actually difficult to know where to start...

You have to realise, till recently I had ONLY heard about Michael Vick from video game commentators like yourself and Markus Beer and others. I don't think you realise what a picture you have painted, you really have made him out worse than the most prolific serial killers, I mean this is as bad as you have ever described anyone. And you've made some references to some pretty horrific characters in your time.

And I'm sorry but the race issue does have to come up, the only public figures that I can find who have stood up for him have been fellow black sportsman.

Think about this, this is more about the crime, more than the punishment, it is the person.

Racism is a subtle and powerful force, it can cloud the best judgement.

[edit: I AM NOT saying "movie bomb is a racist" no. I'm simply stating the scientific truth that everyone has an inherent racial bias at some level and the only way to truly combat this evil instinct is to admit our weaknesses. Now "racists" I'd call people who recognise this emotion but EMBRACE it. I do not think Bob has been doing that, not. at. all. Just that he's let his emotions get away with him here.]

I mean you have resorted to such hyperbole here, showing pictures of the most benign and fragile dog breeds. At no point did you mention dog-fighting. None of the white commentators did, it wasn't till I read the quote of someone who turned out to be black did I find someone to frankly say what he had done.

Surely when you say he "tortured" the animal and showed a picture of a little poodle dog you KNOW what people are going to think.

They are not going to think dog-fighting, they are going to think someone secretly doing evil things in some basement. Something out of Law & order SVU but with a puppy. Why do you keep doing this Bob?

You're a smart guy, but why do you treat us like idiots?

I do NOT like being bullshitted to. No one does. I had enough of that from Michael Moore back when I was younger and more naive, you bullshit people and you push them away.

Just be frank for goodness snake.

 

[Zeetchmen]

I love you Bob! Can't see why people still support the overpaied ball thrower myself

 

[DannibalG36]

I quote: "It's just a dog."

There are worse things you can do. Bob is overreacting like a whiny schizz.

 

[lastjustice]

With the US often promoting A holes I can't get too worked up over this. I mean look at all reality stars like Sheen who are train wrecks. We can't even hold our public servants to any real standards of being a role model in many cases why should are entertainers? Athletes aren't role models they re just people are good at sports. I guess Michael Vick is the hero we deserve, not the hero we need?

Ultimately Vick will make mountains of money and already has been on the cover of the game. What are we really denying him in all this?( I mean how much of an honor is it really be on the cover of madden..especially with the whole Curse factor?) It's not like they were going omit him from it like they used to do with old school basketball games with Shaq and MJ( since they'd be often prevented from appearing due to selling their rights out. I remember laughing at #23 with no picture, name and nearly maxed stats) because he's going not be on the cover. Michael Vick wins either way as this only draw more attention to him.

The legal system has done whatever it was going to do with him already so rest is out of my hands. What he did was wrong (I don't care for dogs for most part. Especially after one attacked my little brother when he was 11, but I'd never torture one for kicks.), but you cant take an eye for an eye attitude on it. Justice was served , and he gets his chance to go forward. May be he screws up again and winds up a broken poor old man with no marketable skills and criminal record that keeps him from ever working again. May be he geniunely redeems himself, and his actions ultimately draw more attention to dog fighting, preventing more loss of life than his crimes caused. I'm not going loose any sleep either way. Karma will dole out whatever he needs. Stopping him from being on Madden will make hardly any difference in his life.

 

[feeqmatic]

I love you Bob! Can't see why people still support the overpaied ball thrower myself

This statement is party the essence of why some "support" Vick. He is being unfairly attacked not for the crime of dogfighting, but moresoe the crime of being an overpaid young black athlete.

Even in bob's post there is more criticism of the sport and the culture that supports it (ie jock culture who had to reaaaaly hurt bob for all of the veiled and direct attacks he makes on them) than it is about dogfighting.

I dont think Bob is a racist, but most people arent OVERTLY racist. Things just come out based on cultural norms and familiarity. More than anything i think bob is biased against jock culture which deserves no bigger of a beatdown than nerd culture half the time, but Bob doesnt see it this way.

 

[Serioli]

"The animal died because he likes dog fighting."

Consider this: dog-fighting is a blood sport that used to be widely popular and is now acceptable in the impoverished black communities that Vick has come from.

Why do you think 'mid-air-plane-combat' was called "dogfighting" back in the early 20th century, because back then the practice was common enough in society.

Maybe all those poor black folk should pay $10'000 per hunting licence for the "socially accepted" blood sport of deer hunt as practised predominantly by white people.

Or maybe we all need to step back and realise that it is a bunch of white people (who had very sheltered upbringing) demonizing a black man who lived a life of poverty until comparatively recent success, and the only people who are defending him are other black people.

Or maybe we could not kill animals 'for a laugh'. To mix our examples:

Which would you choose to kill.

A) a human
b) a deer
C) Neither because it is unnecessary.

Additionally, I clearly understand and acknowledge there is a difference between human and [insert animal here] death, I made a point of bolding, that in the exact circumstances (2 choices) I would choose human survival every time.

 

[Zeetchmen]

[This statement is party the essence of why some "support" Vick. He is being unfairly attacked not for the crime of dogfighting, but moresoe the crime of being an overpaid young black athlete.

Even in bob's post there is more criticism of the sport and the culture that supports it (ie jock culture who had to reaaaaly hurt bob for all of the veiled and direct attacks he makes on them) than it is about dogfighting.

I dont think Bob is a racist, but most people arent OVERTLY racist. Things just come out based on cultural norms and familiarity. More than anything i think bob is biased against jock culture which deserves no bigger of a beatdown than nerd culture half the time, but Bob doesnt see it this way.

All althletes are highly overpaied for what they do, regardless what color they happen to be

 

[Treblaine]

Or maybe we could not kill animals 'for a laugh'. To mix our examples:

Which would you choose to kill.

A) a human
b) a deer
C) Neither because it is unnecessary.

Additionally, I clearly understand and acknowledge there is a difference between human and [insert animal here] death, I made a point of bolding, that in the exact circumstances (2 choices) I would choose human survival every time.

That is a straw-man argument again. Again you are saying both are bad and ignoring the distinction between the two bad options.

And yes, I get it that you would do neither and neither should anybody do either, but that is not what has happened here.

The issue is Vick is being vilified as committing some unprecedented evil, when the world is not so black and white (though to SOME they sure do seem to see the world in Black or White).

Just take a step back and think, if a white sportsman had been partaking in an illegal sport practised predominantly by white people, like say illegally trapping animals on his estate. Would there be the same outrage? I don't think there would.

Would all the commentators put up pictures of Bambi and label this white man with torture and murder? it's cruel and callous but not torture, not murder.

I agree with bob in-so-much as we should have a line of decency, where once you cross that there are unavoidable consequences. But it is wrong to say EVERYTHING beyond that line is as bad as each other, it trivialises the more serious crimes and ultimately deceives.

I think you might get a ban from that post (I skimmed through it though so I unno) but I agree that Bob this year and a bit of last year is kind of losing his touch and is a bit desperate to get his opinions and ideas across, I'd much prefer it if he left it up to the viewer to decide their opinions instead of just giving his opinion even if he needs to exaggerate it.

I'm still gonna watch the Big Picture though because it gives me something to think about when I'm bored lol.

I edited the post now to make a small clarification, but otherwise what is the problem.

Looking back at the video bob did mention dog fighting but the way he presented it in "allegedly" quotes it sounded like he was just covering his ass legally and putting the "this is the WORST STUFF you can do" he implied the dog-fighting was jsut a technicality they got him on.

WORST STUFF

I don't know about Bob, I've seen some pretty horrific shit in my time done to fellow human beings. Things that I wish I'd never even heard about, like endemic cases of gang child rape in southern africa. And hyping up dog fighting to be as bad as all the evils in the world... you can see how I and others would assume Vick did way more than let two violent dogs fight each other.

I don't know, maybe Bob has led a very sheltered life and is simply unaware of all the sickeningly horrible things that are done, maybe dog fighting is the worst stuff he knows of.