The Big Picture: Maddening

Giest4life

The Saucepan Man
Feb 13, 2010
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Sorry, Bob. The "line you will not cross" is a completely arbitrary line and one I disagree with. If someone has to the power to shoot a fucking duck so that it is unable to feed her chicks has crossed that fucking line. You are no better. You are a hypocrite just like you accuse PETA of being one; if you aren't a hypocrite than you are plainly ignorant.

I'm sorry, Bob, "it is just a dog" and we do worse things to human fucking beings than we do to animals.
 

Enkidu88

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Jan 24, 2010
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Susan Arendt said:
boeingguy787 said:
Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).
He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.
I love you.

Marry me!

In other words, thank you for summing up my words exactly.
 

KorLeonis

New member
Mar 15, 2010
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I am firmly convinced that any and all professional athletes are useless sacks of flesh who are a drain on humanity and should be shot and dumped in an unmarked mass grave somewhere. Vick is despicable enough to deserve the first bullet, but I say they all get one.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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jakefongloo said:
One of the perks of believing in an afterlife is that murder is meh. Child abuse can make for some very strong people and rape.....so? As long as no STD's were spread and no pregnancy happened rape is almost harmless. Weak people crush under the psychological trauma strong move on.

As for torture, torture is possibly the worst thing you can do to anything. It changes their very core. It forces friends to betray each other, sell out family, and will break any mind. Any person capable of torturing anything can not be rehibilitated. It's a dominate high more addictive than heroin. You love the feeling of having something's life in your hand. Once you cross the line there is no way back, when you see creatures you don't see them, you see victims. Vick is going to lose it one day mark my words.
Look, its fine to believe that the strong inherit the earth, after all we are talking about animals BUT STILL TRY TO HAVE SOME HUMANITY!
 

2xDouble

New member
Mar 15, 2010
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righthanded said:
2xDouble said:
righthanded said:
2xDouble said:
righthanded said:
Eh, weak episode

factory farming is morally on the same plane as dogfighting. if you eat meat, you eat it because you like the taste. any nutrients can be had from other sources for less cost.
Are you seriously saying that killing an animal to eat it is the same as torturing it for amusement? Don't you care about animals?
if you don't enjoy eating animals, there are alternatives, and they're more cost effective too.
greed drives profits from death in any case. I don't know why there's the need to draw a distinction.
So that's a no. The only thing that matters is making money.
the only thing that matters is not drawing arbitrary distinctions.
if you care about animals, don't eat meat and don't fight dogs.
to say that michael vick is bad because he made money off animal cruelty and that purdue chicken makes money off of animal cruelty but isn't bad-- makes no sense.
Again, thinking only about money... Who cares if they make money? Farms feed hundreds of thousands of people, and other animals. It is a noble sacrifice for the animal and serves a greater purpose. Look at what that chicken went through so you have something to eat. Not eating the chicken is disrespectful to it.

What Vick did, and all dog fighters do, has no purpose. There is no nobility, no sacrifice, no respect. Only murder.

That's a pretty damn big distinction.
 

drakythe

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Feb 10, 2011
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For the record, Bob, I voted against Vick because of this video. I didn't even know he was being considered. wtf.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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THEJORRRG said:
I suggest we put bob on the cover.
Can we have our own poll and send it to EA? I think we should put forward Seijuro Shin and Charizard as well.
 

Communist partisan

New member
Jan 24, 2009
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What is wrong with dogfights?



No by seriously, why would I care about somebody profiting on the murder and pain of dogs, I personally hate dogs and I don't even care what happens in countries where the people are in constant pain and murder, why would I care or give a damn? By the way, isn't that one of the most common things in Capitalism, profiteering on other(s)?
 

snyderman8910

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Feb 3, 2011
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Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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dex-dex said:
at least our football league does not employ criminals just because they can put their butt in the air and throw a ball between their legs.
<url=http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20060612_128443_128443>Is that so? You're so funny

<quote=Article>Ricky Williams takes a hand-off, sweeps right and bursts past a couple of defenders, untouched -- his new Reebok high-tops kicking up grass at the Toronto Argonauts' training camp in Mississauga, Ont. Only then does the Argos' latest NFL rent-a-star really accelerate -- propelled by freakish calf muscles that bulge from under a pair of white knee-high socks.

Running backs in the CFL aren't normally this strong, this fast, this gifted. In fact, the former Heisman trophy winner, who has been one of the best backs in the NFL since 1999, is way too good for these parts. But here he is -- for a season, anyway -- thanks to a one-year ban from the NFL following his fourth failed drug test(the first three for marijuana; the league will say only that the most recent was for something else -- it's rumoured to be a herb).

Continued Below

Some consider Williams(from whom the NFL requires up to 10 drug tests a month)the poster boy for all that's wrong with the CFL -- a league with a long history of welcoming deadbeats. NFL hall-of-fame quarterback Joe Theismann, who played with the Argos in the early '70s, says the signing "shows classlessness in the organization," while Hamilton Tiger Cat legend Angelo Mosca says it's further proof the league is "a dumping ground for illegitimate people."

Still, that's tough to square with the five-foot-10-inch, 220-lb. goofball stretched out on the large leather couch in a team trailer after practice. Even though Williams hasn't smoked a joint in about 14 months and has chopped his trademark beard and dreads, he is no less the gentle hippie now than he was in 2004 when he literally walked away from the Dolphins -- after his third failed drug test -- and ended up in the Australian outback, living out of a tent and looking for God. It's just that now he's replaced pot with yoga.

He's soft-spoken but not nearly as shy as he's often described. In fact, he's confident. And a bit verbose -- a product of his new-wave thinking: "I don't necessarily believe in right or wrong," he says, when asked about the failed drug tests. "If I'd never smoked marijuana, chances are I would have never found yoga. So I can't say smoking marijuana, for me, was wrong."

These days, Williams wakes up around 5 a.m. to perform sun salutations, meditation, breathing exercises and yoga postures before breakfast -- which usually consists of fruit, as well as yogourt and granola(he's vegetarian). He earned his yoga teacher's certificate in India last year and plans to teach it twice a week at a Toronto studio. In his duffle bag, which he's been living out of for the last six months, he carries items for his altar("mainly pictures of uplifting people"), clothes, a Bible, the Bhagavad-Gita and a couple of astrology books -- a new passion.

Williams is simply a yoga-loving optimist -- and hardly the most objectionable one in this lot. Which is not the same as saying the CFL doesn't have a problem(remember, this is a league that gave cokehead Dexter Manley another shot in the early '90s after he was tossed from the NFL). There's nothing in the rule book, for example, that precludes guys from playing because they've had brushes with the law. Recently, the TiCats signed Anthony Davis, who pleaded guilty in 2003 to punching his girlfriend in the face(prosecutors later dropped the case after Davis took part in a first offenders program). Winnipeg added Kyries Hebert to their pre-season roster even though he pleaded guilty this off-season to two misdemeanours in connection to a domestic dispute -- he was arrested, but not charged, for allegedly holding his wife's head under water and threatening to kill her in a fight over an unpaid cellphone bill.

In another controversial case, Trevis Smith was still a Saskatchewan Roughrider when he was charged with two counts of aggravated assault for allegedly having unprotected sex with two women without telling them he was HIV positive.(He was suspended immediately; his trial begins in October.)

The league is even open to guys with criminal convictions. "We're like many other employers that do not discriminate for criminal offences," says Michael Copeland, the CFL's chief operating officer. "If you have a criminal record you're entitled to seek employment."

The CFL has no drug policy -- at all -- making it a refuge for NFL stars who are riding out suspensions. In addition to Williams, Onterrio Smith is the other big American import this spring. The Winnipeg Blue Bomber running back has already been tagged by fans as the Blue Bonger. Now clean, Smith -- who spent seven of the last 12 months in rehab -- says he was once young and careless, and had a problem with marijuana. Following four failed tests, Smith was caught in May 2005, yellow-handed, at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport with dried urine and "The Original Whizzinator"(used to beat drug tests). Bombers management are taking the one-year, $65,000 chance on the 25-year-old -- who faces a civil suit in Minneapolis later this month related to a sexual assault case.

Many with troubled pasts end up in the care of Argo head coach Mike "Pinball" Clemons. Argo offensive tackle Bernard Williams, a first-round pick in the 1994 NFL entry draft, was suspended a couple of times by the league for marijuana. Receiver R. Jay Soward became an alcoholic and was banned from the NFL indefinitely in 2002 for repeatedly breaking the league's substance abuse policy. Wideout Robert Baker is another product of the CFL redemption plan. Several years ago, he spent 10 months in a maximum security prison for trafficking cocaine. He thinks Williams should get a break. "Ricky deserves a second chance, a third chance," Baker told the New York Times. "As long as you're breathing, you deserve a chance. He ain't killed nobody yet. He hasn't taken a life, so he deserves a chance."

The pipeline may soon close partway. Last week, CFL commissioner Tom Wright announced the league is talking with the NFL about a reciprocal agreement that would see each league uphold the other's suspensions. Of course, until then, the CFL remains a rehab centre for NFL drug offenders.

Clemons is all about second(or third, or fourth . . .)chances, and has high hopes for his latest reconstruction project. "If a league is thought less of for giving people an opportunity and helping them turn their life around," he says, "that's where I want to be." It's a nice sentiment, but Williams isn't exactly a charity case. He's a game-breaker. A guy who puts fans in the seats. In fact, he's already proven to be a major box office draw(Argo ticket sales were moving 20 times faster than normal after he signed last week). Orders for his No. 27 jersey are skyrocketing.

Williams says he didn't seek out the opportunity with the Argos -- it simply presented itself to him. "When I walked away from football, I really walked away," he says. "Football didn't let me go." If so, he's lucky(or has good karma, at least), considering that he has kids to support(a seven-year-old daughter, a four-year-old son and another on the way)and owes millions to the Dolphins for breaking his contract in 2004. Williams' salary with the Argos is estimated to be worth at least $240,000. "Ring on my finger or not, it will be obvious by the end of the year why I was supposed to be here," he says. "If one person looks at their life a little differently because of me, that justifies why I'm here." Does he miss Australia? "I don't really miss anything," he says. "Missing means that you're not living in the present -- I always try to live in the present." On his right forearm, Williams has a tattoo of Bob Marley. His favourite Marley tune? Running Away. But that's an old tattoo. That's not Ricky Williams now.

We dont need to employ our criminals. YOU DO!
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Moriarty70 said:
The SOB is still winning rounds by a 30% margin. I think the reason most people have forgoten about it (I hope forgoten and not forgiven), is because of the short attention spans of today. It's along the lines of "I can't believe he did that... Tiger did what, I mean who?"
And because in American culture, Sports>Almost anything else.
 

illmuri

New member
Jan 24, 2011
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So if Vick sat down and penned a mathmatical proof of the Grand Unifying Theory and gave up his current career, it would be easier to excuse the act? It seems Bob hates the idea of a football player getting a second chance, as if that person is less human.

Im no fan of dogfighting, but Im not really a fan of throwing a guy in jail and wasting the rest of his life. I certainly dont value an animals life higher than a human being. The fact that he can comeback and start the process of atoning for things is nice to see. Rabid intolerance is best left to jihadists and Fox News.

Additionally, I pulled a 4 year old girl from a dog cage where her parents were leaving her out in their front yard in the sun. It was 120 degrees that day. I find it difficult to make the connection with dogfighting being "one of the worst things possible."
 

kickyourass

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Apr 17, 2010
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I agree Mr. Chipman, Vick's a scumbag, and it pisses me off to hear people try and defend what he did. Should he get a second chance? Yes, almost everyone should, has he already gotten a second chance? Yes, the second he was given his million doller job back, he got that second chance people seem to be talking about.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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I completely agree. I'm from Atlanta and (I'd blame blind fandom) it is sickening how many people still support him here.
 

Johkmil

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Apr 14, 2009
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I see some remarks on the lines of "dogs are just animals," "this is not so much of a deal," "dogs are 'right down there with mosquitoes and wasps'."

These kind of remarks showcase an atrocious lack of knowledge, or disregard for, the history of human relationships with animals, especially dogs.

Throughout history, humans have bred and altered specific animals in order to make them more fit for human use. Neither modern sheep or cattle as species would survive for a decade without human support. They have been bred forth for the sole purpose of providing meat and clothing.

Which leaves us with dogs. Dogs are more remarkable than anyone thinks in their day-to-day interactions with dogs. They have been bred for the specific purpose of being humanity's companion through the world. They are our last link to an ancient world where survival was a constant battle and food did not grow in supermarkets. No other animal can understand human responses in the same instinctive way as a dog; they are better at understanding us than most primates.

Before the inevitable backlash from more cat-preferring people, note this crucial difference between cats and dogs: cats are wild animals that have been utilized for usages that required a high degree of original instincts and 'wildness.' They have therefore been less distanced from their instincts, and hence are more independent and distanced from the human species. They are basically still a wild creature at heart. This is not the case with dogs.

To return to my opening principle; dogs are more human than any other (non-primate) animal. The seemingly hypocritical notion of favoring dogs over, say, sheep, is therefore both historically correct and justified.

This also leaves us with the requirement that dogs need to be raised in a correct way; their receptability to human impulses make them vulnerable as they have less original instincts to rely on. We are their guardians and masters.

Dog-fighting is therefore comparable only to gladiator fights or making chimps partake in knife-fights. Even worse is the practice of dog-fighters to kidnap ordinary household dogs for use as sparring partners. Sparring partner sounds like an innocent task, but the exact purpose is to be mauled, savaged, torn limb from limb to train the fighting dogs' blood-lust; the fighting dogs themselves being born into a world of nothing but pain, violence and slaughter.

And all this for gambling profits.