The Big Picture: Maddening
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Appreciate the explanation for us foreign dudes, Bob.
While i'm not quite as outraged by animal abuse as Bob, theres no question that it's wrong and immoral, i do have pets, and the thought that anyone could harm such animals is disturbing.
What i fully agree with is the leniancy concerning athletes and the law. OJ is one example, and many, if not most of the professional athletes in the US and UK notably, have convictions and have comitted crimes that have become very public.
Assault and battery, harassment, drunk driving, drug abuse, drug trafficking, unlicensed firearms, even rape is fairly common among famous sports stars.
The reason they often get away with very leniant punishments considering the crimes they commit, if they don't get let off outright, is because they are "famous".
Young boys in particular look up to these men as idols, and do their best to emulate their behaviour, what kind of message are we sending those children when these men can literally get away with murder just because of who they are?
Worse, the public FORGIVES these men, for no other reason than his fame.
While i'm not quite as outraged by animal abuse as Bob, theres no question that it's wrong and immoral, i do have pets, and the thought that anyone could harm such animals is disturbing.
What i fully agree with is the leniancy concerning athletes and the law. OJ is one example, and many, if not most of the professional athletes in the US and UK notably, have convictions and have comitted crimes that have become very public.
Assault and battery, harassment, drunk driving, drug abuse, drug trafficking, unlicensed firearms, even rape is fairly common among famous sports stars.
The reason they often get away with very leniant punishments considering the crimes they commit, if they don't get let off outright, is because they are "famous".
Young boys in particular look up to these men as idols, and do their best to emulate their behaviour, what kind of message are we sending those children when these men can literally get away with murder just because of who they are?
Worse, the public FORGIVES these men, for no other reason than his fame.
As an international cohort myself, the soccer league here in my country with massive douchebags who are also involved in scamming, dogfighting, drug dealing and corruption of the sports system.Rkiver said:
I can relate to Bob, but I'm in no hurry of defending his point of view because I'm not a sports fan myself, but I know douches when I see them and there is a massive one here.
*pets dog*
Sorry Bob, I have to disagree.
I don't like Vick, but yes. They're just dogs. Sorry.
I'm not simply the type of christian who thinks we're above animals or what have you; I simply don't think they deserve this much respect. Until they get thumbs and start building shit, I never will.
Look, I had a cat for the first 15 years of my life. He was there when I was born and he definitely possessed some intelligence and memory. I got that. But I didn't cry when both our cats had to be put down due to sickness and then depression (Yes, our cat suffered depression after the first one died). While I can understand some of the concepts that many animals are just barely a couple steps down from us... They're still just that. Below us.
Sorry.
I don't like Vick, but yes. They're just dogs. Sorry.
I'm not simply the type of christian who thinks we're above animals or what have you; I simply don't think they deserve this much respect. Until they get thumbs and start building shit, I never will.
Look, I had a cat for the first 15 years of my life. He was there when I was born and he definitely possessed some intelligence and memory. I got that. But I didn't cry when both our cats had to be put down due to sickness and then depression (Yes, our cat suffered depression after the first one died). While I can understand some of the concepts that many animals are just barely a couple steps down from us... They're still just that. Below us.
Sorry.
Are the moderators allowed to say that? Because I'm sure that if a user did, he'd get punished. Just sayin'...Susan Arendt said:
I agree that it is bad taste of EA to give him the chance appear on the cover Hell, I don't think he should be allowed to play in the NFL but people here are way to harsh, it seems like the support for Death Penelty just increased more then is healthy.
Bob, you're doing exactly what you hate. You hate it when people make blanket statements about things near and dear to you, so why are you doing it with Madden? Madden is its own subculture. You're obviously not a part of it, and that's fine. Just like it's fine that some people are not into what you are. Madden is not a "60 dollar roster update." It just isn't. And since you're not part of that scene, you also shouldn't be telling that scene what its place is. Football fan or not, you're obviously not a Madden fan. So who are you to say who they can or can't use for their cover? Football players don't get propped up for their great moral integrity. What Vick did was sick. No one will argue that point. But his punishment is over. It's of course fine for people to say "I'm no fan of that man and I won't encourage him with my money." But to make it a moral crusade, to say "this man did things that make ME sick, so he shouldn't be on the cover."..? You're not a guy just having an opinion, anymore. You're doing exactly what every anti-video game person does. If people want Vick, they should have him. It's not your fault if society swings towards celebrating him. Many of us think he's a shitheel, too. But don't do what every politician does to every other game. If he wins, it's because people chose him, and it doesn't mean that EA is advocating dog murder. And if their sales suffer because of a man on a box, they'll deal with it.
Great episode Bob, I really agree with everything you said, about people buying Madden annually and about Michael Vick
I really don't see the big deal. (About the cover, not the fighting ring.) I also don't respect the derision towards professional athletes. In the pantheon of society, they've always been held in high regard. Why? Because they're the pinnacle of athletic achievement. It takes a lot more skill play a sport at the highest level, than it does to spit paint on a canvas and call it expressionistic art.
In fact after watching this video, I went and voted for Vick (and Peyton Hillis).
In fact after watching this video, I went and voted for Vick (and Peyton Hillis).
Congrats I stopped watching your video.
I particularly stopped watching when you mentioned that what Vick did was worse than violent crimes against people.
Sorry, but to me, murdering a dog is NEVER worse than murdering a human.
Now none of this should have ANY bearing on whether or not he ends up on the cover anyway, because the cover is an honor only within the context of football. Being on the Madden cover was never in any way meant to say that "X" is a good person. Being on the Madden cover was meant to convey that "X" is REALLY GOOD AT FOOTBALL. Which Vick IS.
I particularly stopped watching when you mentioned that what Vick did was worse than violent crimes against people.
Sorry, but to me, murdering a dog is NEVER worse than murdering a human.
Now none of this should have ANY bearing on whether or not he ends up on the cover anyway, because the cover is an honor only within the context of football. Being on the Madden cover was never in any way meant to say that "X" is a good person. Being on the Madden cover was meant to convey that "X" is REALLY GOOD AT FOOTBALL. Which Vick IS.
I hope by "Go SOX!" you mean the White Sox!
But, seriously. Fuck Vick. Eating meat, wearing leather, and animal testing all serve a viable purpose in society. Nutrition, clothing, medicine.
But what Vick was doing was sick and, more importantly, served no purpose further than his own sick amusement.
But, seriously. Fuck Vick. Eating meat, wearing leather, and animal testing all serve a viable purpose in society. Nutrition, clothing, medicine.
But what Vick was doing was sick and, more importantly, served no purpose further than his own sick amusement.
Agreed, Vick should not be given any slack, but I also think that ANYONE who commits those types of crime should be seen as pontential bad news they are. I say this with the thought that if a person deems that as okay, then there's something wrong with them. I this because it isn't normal, heathy or very sane behaviour.
Also no matter how smart a person or what good they could do, if they commit a crime like this then they should not be given any slack. Sorry Moive Bob, I believe you are wrong in saying that the law should excuse someone because their smart or creative, and I say this with Roman Polanski in mind. Please note that I am note comparing the two crimes, just giving an example of how this logic fails.
Also no matter how smart a person or what good they could do, if they commit a crime like this then they should not be given any slack. Sorry Moive Bob, I believe you are wrong in saying that the law should excuse someone because their smart or creative, and I say this with Roman Polanski in mind. Please note that I am note comparing the two crimes, just giving an example of how this logic fails.
If i were you, i would think about avoiding generalisations.KorLeonis said:
Let's take the NBA, for one. It's basically filled with pro athletes, right? ok.
So many of the guys there are good-hearted, fun-loving, respectable people. Many of them actively engage in different charities as they had a hard childhood and want to keep others from suffering in the same conditions.
I'm not too familiar with athletes from other fields of sport, but you can take my word on this one: these people are anything but "useless sacks of flesh".
OT: Bob makes a good point. EA having a dog torturing maniac, who also happens to be a good football player, as their representative might not be the most sensible choice.
Also, those who compare Vick to McDonalds or even different labs for testing on animals, there's a huge difference: One is having animals kill each other for money (also count in the psychological trauma these dogs are going through as they're made that unstable), the other is either going for food or advancing science as we know it.
While I'm not saying animal fighting are a good thing,are very far from it,people's reaction here are pretty damn intense.I mean,really?"He can go die in a fire"?
Look,what he did was bad,but he got punished(although he should have gotten a few more years).No,he should not get the honor of having his picture plastered on game boxes,but wishing him more harm?Even death?
You don't wish the same fate onto robbers,who can ruin a family's life for few years,and maybe cause children to suffer,but as soon as something cute gets hurt,shit gets real it seems.
And please don't give me the "dogs are defenceless" argument,someone getting robbed is just as defenceless as a dog being forced into fighting.
In conclusion,no Vick on the cover,animal torture is very bad,but stop wishing he would suffer more you bloodthristy psychos.
Look,what he did was bad,but he got punished(although he should have gotten a few more years).No,he should not get the honor of having his picture plastered on game boxes,but wishing him more harm?Even death?
You don't wish the same fate onto robbers,who can ruin a family's life for few years,and maybe cause children to suffer,but as soon as something cute gets hurt,shit gets real it seems.
And please don't give me the "dogs are defenceless" argument,someone getting robbed is just as defenceless as a dog being forced into fighting.
In conclusion,no Vick on the cover,animal torture is very bad,but stop wishing he would suffer more you bloodthristy psychos.