The Big Picture: Not Okay

[Uber Waddles]

Part of the reason things will never change is because as a community, we are fractured. We all belong to the same community, but a large portion (mostly on the younger side, but there are quite a few naive older people) don't act like they are part of the community. They don't care about the community as a whole, standards we'd like to uphold, or making the medium better. They're just there cause its the cool thing to do, explosions are cool, or for sheer, mind melting entertainment. Thats never going away either.

Why should they? If entry into the gaming community is defined as playing video games why should they care about anything except playing the games they want to play.

Well, for one, I never said they should. But if you want an honest answer, I'll give you one.

We should care because it matters. In every sense you can think of. You like playing videogames? Without a strong community, you get game developers who walk all over their client base. They can do various things, restricting DRM seems to be the top gunner right now. A more recent example is the scrutiny that BioWare is under for the "From Ashes" DLC, which was finished pre-production, and is being sold for $10 instead of included with new copies of the game (like previous DLC's). This DLC pack includes plot points, so if you didnt get the Collectors edition, and you want to get the most out of the game, you're gonna sink an extra $10.

And who do you think fights against those practices? Not all of the boycotts are successful, mostly because of the mentioned fracturing, but a lot of companies will reconsider consumer-unfriendly concepts due to massive backlash. A strong community stops ALL of us from getting trampled on with.

Also, I'm pretty sure that since you like playing Videogames, you probably don't want to see them taxed for being violent? How about censored based on content? Or making M rated videogames banned from commercial store shelves? All legislation that has fallen over the last two years because people decided to get vocal. Even if you just like playing the mindless rot that most of the collected community hates, its the community that stands up for your right to play it, the way the developer wanted you to play it, without anyone saying "thats not fit, get rid of it".

And it kinda really hurts the community that the loud minority are the people that don't really care for gaming as a whole. You won't see the Frat Bro's who play CoD get up in arms over a tax on violent videogames, or unfriendly consumer practices. The issues we face wont be solved by the 13 year olds who shout the N word at people or who threaten to kill to people because they're upset. Most of the time, its the collected community who has to backtrack and fix the issues that mainstream society sees are there because a few bad apples represent gaming as a whole.

Not all games are about binding, torturing, and killing people. A collective community tries to make sure that people actually see that games are more than just a 'branch of Hasboro gone horribly wrong', and that they have cultural and societal impacts.

 

[Punch You]

Part of the reason things will never change is because as a community, we are fractured. We all belong to the same community, but a large portion (mostly on the younger side, but there are quite a few naive older people) don't act like they are part of the community. They don't care about the community as a whole, standards we'd like to uphold, or making the medium better. They're just there cause its the cool thing to do, explosions are cool, or for sheer, mind melting entertainment. Thats never going away either.

Why should they? If entry into the gaming community is defined as playing video games why should they care about anything except playing the games they want to play.

Because that's selfish. No matter what group you're apart of, at some level, you are representative of that group. What Bob wants is for gamers to realize that most people hate gamers, and that one rotten apple is all it takes to ruin the patch, because that's all the media will focus on right now. In Bob's example, that guy made all people who play fighting games look like douches. Is that fair to the rest of the fighting game community, most of whom I hope don't feel the same way?

It isn't okay to enjoy your hobby while degrading women and making other members of your hobby look like dicks who you assume share your messed-up view of the world.

 

[hermes]

Spoiler: full interview transcript

Rea: You know what it is, to be honest with you? We?re getting older. Do you really want to keep hanging around with a bunch of [guys in their] early 20s who don?t know how to treat one another with respect? That?s what it is.

Bakhtanians: Alright, man. The thing is...if you don?t like the scene, how it is right now, it just seems like you?re trying to create...turn it into something that it?s not, and it?s never going to be. You know what I mean?

Rea: That?s really unfortunate [inaudible]...the way it is right now, they want to enjoy fighting games, but they?re so incredibly turned off by [the language].

Bakhtanians: This doesn?t involve me, Jared, I don?t know if you can hear me--this is Aris. This doesn?t really involve me, but if you don?t like onions, you get your sandwich without onions, man. I mean, this is the fighting game community.

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can?t. You can?t because they?re one and the same thing. This is a community that?s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it?s not the fighting game community--it?s StarCraft. There?s nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there?s nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There?s eSports for people who like eSports, and there?s fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There?s no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

You can?t go to the NBA and say ?hey, I like basketball, but I don?t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football.? It just doesn?t...it doesn?t make sense to have that attitude, you know? These things are established for years. That would be like someone from the fighting game community going over to StarCraft and trying to say ?hey, StarCraft, you guys are too soft, let?s start making sexual harassment jokes to each other on StarCraft.? That?s not cool, people wouldn?t like that. StarCraft isn?t like that. People would get defensive, and that?s what you?re trying to do the fighting game community, and it?s not right. It?s ethically wrong.

I know that you?re thinking ?what do you know about ethics? You say racial stuff and sexist stuff.? But those are jokes and if you were really a member of the fighting game community, you would know that. You would know that these are jokes.

Rea: So, ensuring that we alienate any and all female viewers...that?s the ethical thing to do?

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

Spoiler: his later response

I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don?t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn?t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years.

I find it funny how they used Starcraft as a bad thing. What's bad about it? From most competitions I've seen they tend to get along pretty well, even when they cheese the hell out of each other.

It's a good thing these guys put themselves out though. That way you can smack some of that BS down, which they need to do some more.

It's because the Starcraft community and FGC are diametrically opposed. When people talk about making fighting games into an esport, they always say things like "why can't you be more like those Starcraft guys" and that makes the members of the FGC feel marginalized. They fought (no pun) to get where they are with, really, little to no outside help. The FGC is really homegrown, and when you have that much devoted into something, people coming in to mess with that feels deeply wrong, and they get very territorial.

I feel the need to point to this article [http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/12/guest-editorial-momentum-matters-a-historical-perspective-on-the-fgc-and-esports-communities-2/] again to better illustrate that point, because I'm just not as well versed in the finer details as others.

Its also because there is some history there with the guy that asked him. Jared was part of the Starcraft community management team, he was one of the people that worked there to give that community mass popularity and appeal and at some point he was brought to the SF community by Capcom to do the same thing there. Of course, that was seen as a threat by those that were in the community for a long time since one of the first things to get that was to "sanitize" it...

So, Starcraft was not just used in the response as a particular example of eSport (the same way he could have said Halo or COD), but as a reference to the person that made the question in the first place, most of which is put out of context...

 

[LordLundar]

Spoiler: full interview transcript

Rea: You know what it is, to be honest with you? We?re getting older. Do you really want to keep hanging around with a bunch of [guys in their] early 20s who don?t know how to treat one another with respect? That?s what it is.

Bakhtanians: Alright, man. The thing is...if you don?t like the scene, how it is right now, it just seems like you?re trying to create...turn it into something that it?s not, and it?s never going to be. You know what I mean?

Rea: That?s really unfortunate [inaudible]...the way it is right now, they want to enjoy fighting games, but they?re so incredibly turned off by [the language].

Bakhtanians: This doesn?t involve me, Jared, I don?t know if you can hear me--this is Aris. This doesn?t really involve me, but if you don?t like onions, you get your sandwich without onions, man. I mean, this is the fighting game community.

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can?t. You can?t because they?re one and the same thing. This is a community that?s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it?s not the fighting game community--it?s StarCraft. There?s nothing wrong with StarCraft if you enjoy it, and there?s nothing wrong with anything about eSports, but why would you want just one flavor of ice cream, you know? There?s eSports for people who like eSports, and there?s fighting games for people who like spicy food and like to have fun. There?s no reason to turn them into the same thing, you know?

You can?t go to the NBA and say ?hey, I like basketball, but I don?t want them to play with a basketball, I want them to play with a football.? It just doesn?t...it doesn?t make sense to have that attitude, you know? These things are established for years. That would be like someone from the fighting game community going over to StarCraft and trying to say ?hey, StarCraft, you guys are too soft, let?s start making sexual harassment jokes to each other on StarCraft.? That?s not cool, people wouldn?t like that. StarCraft isn?t like that. People would get defensive, and that?s what you?re trying to do the fighting game community, and it?s not right. It?s ethically wrong.

I know that you?re thinking ?what do you know about ethics? You say racial stuff and sexist stuff.? But those are jokes and if you were really a member of the fighting game community, you would know that. You would know that these are jokes.

Rea: So, ensuring that we alienate any and all female viewers...that?s the ethical thing to do?

Bakhtanians: Well, you know, there are layers here, if you think about this. There are layers of ethics. There are people who are racist and commit hate crimes, right? And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends. Do you think those people are one and the same? Absolutely not.

Spoiler: his later response

I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don?t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn?t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years.

I find it funny how they used Starcraft as a bad thing. What's bad about it? From most competitions I've seen they tend to get along pretty well, even when they cheese the hell out of each other.

It's a good thing these guys put themselves out though. That way you can smack some of that BS down, which they need to do some more.

Waitaminute. Let me see if I got this right. The full transcript of the interview is there, showing him that he feels he's justified in being a misogynist asshole (ladies and gentlemen, take a good look. This is what misogyny really looks like.) then when the retaliation gets a fever pitch, he then "apologizes" saying he's sorry that EVERY ONE ELSE misunderstood the subtle nuances of his misogyny.

Have I got that right? I would say it's time that his sponsors and supporters pulled out. Make him realize that there ARE consequences for his actions.

 

[fubaring0]

I like the dig on the Starcraft community when they pride themselves being a little more mature than other esports.

 

[Thespian]

I'd like to start by saying I think this is one of your best videos, Bob. At least one of the best hosted on the Escapist (as that's all I watch). It was very good viewing too, by the way. I generally tend to prefer the videos spouting obscure facts about obscure series than ones where you argue a point (Maybe because I don't always agree...) but this episode was just very well done.

You made some excellent points, and you made them very well. It was stuff that needed to be said, and needs to be said more than once, and needs to be said very clearly and loudly. Gaming is already at a disadvantage - We can't even afford to be as lax as the more accepted forms of media - We have to strive to be the best, to be unmatched, just so we can be seen as acceptable. And though not everyone is causing the problem, many are pretending there is no problem, and many more just don't care. We all need to work at this.

Bravo.

 

[Drtimlittle]

It is these kind of videos that need to be shared and understood. This was a superb video with excellent points. We all enjoy the comic book/old weird tv shows/ hollywood history lessons, but every now and then, a bomb needs dropping. Cheers Bob. Don't go changing on us.

 

[Slycne]

I tend to avoid and criticize pro-gaming, and this is one of the major reasons for doing so. With the rare exception, the personality of most "Professional Gamers" can be summed up in the term douchebag.

You know I actually had the same opinion until I got a chance to cover an MLG event awhile back. While there is undoubtedly some (and perhaps some communities are more prone than others). I think it is more a situation of the more vocal minority drowning out the quiet majority. Everyone we talked to or interviewed was super chill and behaved sportsmanlike in their matches.

I might even go a step further to postulate that the actually professionals are ok, but it's the people riding just below that edge that are the real problem.

 

[Vortigar]

Great episode Bob.

As a semi-retired-member of the fighting game community I've always been troubled by the stuff you see in some tournament video's. The class acts like James Chen, UltrDavid, Seth Killian and the like getting wedged between groups of loudmouthed swearing types who keep claiming that 'everybody gets it' and that there's no problem.

"You don't lose when you admit that there's a problem, you lose when you fail to address it."
I can't count the number of times I've had to try to pound this into people's heads.

And its extremely sad to see this be a problem in so many places.

To admit you made a mistake during a debate doesn't make you lose the entire debate, its how you recover and pass the point back or move on to the next one. Dropping the ball and letting the opposing team score doesn't mean you should be put on the bench, its how you make sure you don't do it again the next time a similar situation comes up.

 

[Qitz]

Waitaminute. Let me see if I got this right. The full transcript of the interview is there, showing him that he feels he's justified in being a misogynist asshole (ladies and gentlemen, take a good look. This is what misogyny really looks like.) then when the retaliation gets a fever pitch, he then "apologizes" saying he's sorry that EVERY ONE ELSE misunderstood the subtle nuances of his misogyny.

Have I got that right? I would say it's time that his sponsors and supporters pulled out. Make him realize that there ARE consequences for his actions.

Yup, that's pretty much what he said both times in a nutshell. You forgot the part where he comes off as superior but yeah.

 

[RaikuFA]

I tend to avoid and criticize pro-gaming, and this is one of the major reasons for doing so. With the rare exception, the personality of most "Professional Gamers" can be summed up in the term douchebag.

You know I actually had the same opinion until I got a chance to cover an MLG event awhile back. While there is undoubtedly some (and perhaps some communities are more prone than others). I think it is more a situation of the more vocal minority drowning out the quiet majority. Everyone we talked to or interviewed was super chill and behaved sportsmanlike in their matches.

I might even go a step further to postulate that the actually professionals are ok, but it's the people riding just below that edge that are the real problem.

Heres an idea on taking care of that. Don't give those guys ANY coverage and when they *****, tell them to act better if they want better coverage.

 

[Blueruler182]

Okay, while I agree that this is a problem, I disagree that it's any more of a problem in gaming than in other places. I think sexism in general is a problem, and the reason we notice it in gaming is because we have a tendency to talk to more people while online. Think of a single night of Halo or Call of Duty and the sheer number of people you interact with. Of course a few of them are going to be douchebags.

I agree with everything you said, but I think that gaming does get a bad rap for these sorts of things when it's not solely a gaming problem. Look at the music industry, and look at the sports industry. I've seen my fair share of athletes mistreat women, and the music industry seems to want to objectify them as much as possible.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

This is proof that the gaming community as a whole needs to mature. Yeah, we get it, we like to have fun in a style and propensity that's not common in individuals who normally have a job, responsibilities, taxes, other personal burdens and what have you, but this is no excuse to behave like a caterwauling man-child.

I absolutely agree with you, Bob. We need to set an example for the rest of us to see, for the non-gamers to acknowledge as a positive display of gaming as a whole. The sooner we manage to turn the idea of a socially responsible and independent mature adult as being the *actual* stereotype all gamers should try to adhere to, the better the community's going to be as a whole.

I don't really appreciate it when a corporation tells me it needs my real name for its own purposes, but the RealID system Blizzard's set in place seems like a tiny step in the right direction. I'd even be in favor of all gamers' complete coordinates being made available if the risk of being trolled to death is what it takes for some of these douchebags to behave. We don't see this type of verbal abuse spread so outwardly outside of online communities precisely because anonymity is what fosters this kind of abuse.

To which you might retort that fighting game communities don't really deal with anonymity. They're the last great bastion for true competitive couch gameplay, right? No online hassles required, right? Well, wrong. The idiots fostering the idea that MLG players are asshats chain opponents together without getting the chance to know them, and consider verbal abuse as being part of some sort of diversionary tactic. This also needs to change.

It should be made clear that it doesn't matter if you're a pro gamer or just a casual fan; demoralizing other players makes you out to be a complete asshat.

Except as far as Zergling rushes are considered. Zergling rushes are a wonderful way to demoralize your opponent. Best of all, they don't require slurs or insults. You can demolish your adversary and still be quite civil about it.

 

[unacomn]

To be fair, the Starcraft folks can be mean as well, not that mean, but "worth avoiding" mean.

 

[vxicepickxv]

I disagree with the idea that this coach using sexual harassment as a way of "motivating" his player has to anything to do with the gaming culture. Did this happen at a gaming event? Sure, but it also happens every day in EVERY SPORT.

Back when I did waterpolo in high school I had a coach like this my freshman year whose "motivational" skills went as far as calling everyone on the team "pansy ass faggots" and throwing chairs in the pool from frustration if our team ever got scored on. I've heard similar stories from friends I've had who played other sports, and this was especially prevalent in our wrestling coach.

So yeah, this isn't a problem endemic to gaming or the "fighting game culture" as this asshole claims, it's a part of sports in general and the idea that coaches have put in their heads that they somehow own their players and can treat them like crap.

Well, I think the point Bob was going for here was that it's going to be wrong in more than one community. I'm pretty sure that was the exact point he was going for.

 

[Mythrignoc]

Couldn't have said it better myself, and could not agree more with this weeks Big Picture. I'm a transgender and I've literally been told before that the reason I sometimes suck at video games is because "I spend all my time trying to look like a woman and that's just stupid."

That is unfathomably idiotic and insulting, yet it constitutes banter in the gaming world. And that's MILD compared to some of the stuff both men and women face on even just one chatroom of a call of duty game.

 

[LordLundar]

Waitaminute. Let me see if I got this right. The full transcript of the interview is there, showing him that he feels he's justified in being a misogynist asshole (ladies and gentlemen, take a good look. This is what misogyny really looks like.) then when the retaliation gets a fever pitch, he then "apologizes" saying he's sorry that EVERY ONE ELSE misunderstood the subtle nuances of his misogyny.

Have I got that right? I would say it's time that his sponsors and supporters pulled out. Make him realize that there ARE consequences for his actions.

Yup, that's pretty much what he said both times in a nutshell. You forgot the part where he comes off as superior but yeah.

Thank you, and yeah I didn't put that in because I don't think there really is any misunderstanding on that concept.

And as for the "purify by sunlight" I prefer nuke from orbit. No not literally (maybe), I mean every time he shows his face at an event to shun and disgrace him and his ilk. Stop endorsing and supporting them. Any time he shows up to play block him out. Make it difficult for him to compete again and realize that no, he doesn't speak for the community and no, the community should not allow this bullshit to continue. Don't hide it away, shove it out in the open and say "this is garbage and we don't want it here".

 

[Sam Worms]

Fuckin' rock on Bob.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I've never understood why people think the right to free speech means they're allowed to be an arsehole to people without consequence.

It's the other way around. They want to be an arsehole first, so they then retroactively use "free speech" as a justification.

 

[Ellen of Kitten]

Finest episode of your show yet Bob. ^_^ Absolute finest.