The Big Picture: Not Okay

[Bloodtrozorx]

First: Bob if you could hear this I'm doing a slow clap. Thank you for that.
Second: Aris Bakhtanians is a waste of space and deserves all of this. Its a shame that he is now a very public face of gaming and we'll all suffer for this.

 

[Unfire]

I have a serious question, because when I was growing up in the same state as Bob, "fag" was the most common non-seven-list-of-dirty-words insult there was. I've stopped using it of course, for almost 20 years, but in my cathartic moments of video game violence, I don't keep track of the swears that I say with anger (why I don't use a mic in any kind of console game, except with friends). I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but I know I myself use video games to vent my anger as a release after sitting in a cube for 8 hours. Basically I'm asking if my verbal diarrhea, none of which is nice, these "ism" words come out, does that count as these "isms"?

 

[PingoBlack]

I only find one thing today really poor ...

Big Picture gets a small banner and a mention for such a worthwhile topic, while the review of latest EA thing gets front and center.

 

[John Funk]

I agreed with Bob right up to the point of using "rape" as a descriptor.

In the standard gaming scenario, "rape" is not being used to describe what literally happened. Typically, is being used hyperbolically to describe the incident eg: in the case of a vicious, unjustifiable, penetrative assault. Criticising it on this level seems odd, since we don't complain about using "killed", "owned", "butchered" or "destroyed" in such a circumstance (and if one is interpreting it literally, murder is equally - if not more - serious than rape).

Furthermore, rape is not an intrinsically female-victim issue either. I would go as far as to suggest that one guy saying "I raped you" to another guy to be more a homosexual threat characterized by desires of non-gender-specific sexual dominance than a product of male-on-female rape being glamorised.


The point about free speech was brilliant though, most Americans (it seems) would do well to heed that. Most noticeably, the Westboro Baptist Church are allowed to say whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that they aren't responsible for it.

Doesn't matter. It should stop.

 

[Terminal Blue]

snip

Rape is not intrinsically female victim issue, but it is (quite justifiably) a far more emotive issue for women. Because, to put it bluntly, women suffer it hugely more. Couple this with the fact that men generally display significantly lower fear of violence or physical attack (despite being overwhelmingly more likely to suffer it) and you are left with a predictable outcome. Although rape happens to men, men simply do not fear it. Men have no reason to believe it will happen to them, and normally they're right.

Put yourself in the shoes of a woman for a moment, someone who genuinely does fear rape. If you walk into an environment where guys casually use the word, are you going to spend your time trying to work out what they mean by that. No, you will get the fuck out. Why would you hang around people who treat your worst fear as a trivial thing?

We all say we want more women to play games, but I don't think we really want "women" to play games, we want gamer girls who will fit inoffensively into the preexisting culture and adopt our attitudes and who will never demand that we grow up or behave differently. That probably isn't going to happen. Women won't look at guys using the word "rape" and dismiss it as harmless fun, just like many gay people can't hear the word "fag" without feeling an emotional reaction. It's not about "manning up" or "getting offended over nothing", because this stuff isn't "nothing" to those people.

It will push them away, and it will ultimately lead to the gaming community continuing to be regarded as nothing more than a dumping ground for poorly socialized manchildren. That alone, I think, is reason to stop it.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

One of the reasons I don't like online multiplayer games is the causal bigotry. It happens to often that a lot of people don't even react to it anymore.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

While it deos feel so good to here someone FINALLY call those guys out on the casual mysognoy, homphobia, racism etc., I do think he is being just a little sensitive. These things do need to be phased out, but the majority of it isnt hateful, just tastless. Im not saying no harm done because that does act as a gateway to deliberate and intentional discrimination, but if I flagged every person that used a homophobic slur, thats about a third of the worldwide gamer population.

Two example from personal experience:
Getting called a fag as a general insult by a 7-year-old: Bad but harmless
One guy calling me a muslim because I blew myself up: That deserves punishment

 

[Ashoten]

Thanks for going beyond just the sexism issue and addressing the general dushbaggery that happens in online gaming. The worst thing about any multiplayer game right now is the players. Why should I have to be subjected to angry teenagers moaning and pissing? I hope game developers take notice of this and start to crack down on abusive players. Whats that you say? Just don't play multiplayer games then noob? Well if the market wasn't saturated with a ton a multiplayer games maybe I could. Big Multiplayer games are the way of the future as long as the internet is here. So guess I gotta hope for more Skyrims and Final Fantasy games that don't suck.

But you know I have as much right as the next person to jump into a big multiplayer match with my friends without being screamed at to uninstall my game(In a match of W.O.T. where I tracked and wrecked the other team with every artillery shot, but I didn't get any kills).

Yes using rape as a simile for beating another player is vulgar and only feeds the stereotype that all gamers are insecure jerks trying to draw attention away from the size of their own "Member".

Yeah I do get angry over stuff like this.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

Why is hatespeach an important part of the fighting game culture?

Because they they don't like PC Games!

 

[BrownGaijin]

So does this mean I can't laugh at <a href=http://www.hulu.com/watch/2306/saturday-night-live-point-counterpoint-lee-marvin-and-michelle-triola>this anymore? Or does it pass under the "Politically incorrect but not being mean" clause?

 

[yunabomb]

It isn't okay to enjoy your hobby while degrading women and making other members of your hobby look like dicks who you assume share your messed-up view of the world.

Why should people have to censor themselves when their playing things like Xbox live? Last I checked, you can mute people

The burden to change behavior should not fall on the innocents.

Plus, this isn't specific to online play. In tournaments and other gaming events people experience racism, sexism and harassment.

 

[Realitycrash]

Very well, Bob. Let's talk about it. So, what exactly are we to talk about except "Sexism is bad, and the fact that some gamers feel entitled to being sexist as 'part of their identity' is ludicrous"? Seriously, what do you purpose we DO other than all nod and say "Yes, yes this is bad".
For if it is so, then I will reply "Why are we even talking about this?".

 

[Satosuke]

Yes, apologies and social ostracism were in order here, but it seems Bob is suggesting there should be legal ramifications for what he said. I'm not saying Bob openly said Bakhtanians should face government penalization for what he said, but suggesting it goes into dicey legal territory. I honestly don't want to see something like the UK's libel laws come here to the USA, where you can face fines and punishment from the state for what you say, because yeah, THAT'S CENSORSHIP.

He should be shunned by his peers and kicked off the show, but he shouldn't be fined or jailed. I know that's not what was said, but I find it important to make that distinction. But yeah, I agree with the fact that the gaming community's doing a shitty job of separating itself from idiots like this.

 

[ED-Tw0 ZeRo N9nE]

Sigh, Bob trumpeting the Political Correctness horn AGAIN, how predictable.

By this point we should all pretty much already know what he's going to say before he even says it. It would appear that he really does like to imagine himself as the Champion of Equality, no matter how hollow it truely is.

 

[Alphamarigi]

The only sentence I didn't respond "DUH" to is the rape as synonym for defeat thing I don't use it but I had no problem with it until this wake up call, thank you. Also the nerd who gets bullied thing is old hat Bob seriously it is the only people who bullied me were obnoxious thirteen year old, obnoxious kids at my afterschool care who also played videogames and other nerds. Seriously that's it. In high school I had a lot of jock friends including chicks and they weren't bad to look at either. Maybe it's cause I live in SF but I don't these stereotypes about the midwest are true RIGHT? I never heard anything about nerds getting bullied besides the media, my dad who is over fifty, memesites and you. So it gets tiresome hearing you talk about it.

 

[Realitycrash]

Main thing I disagree with is the implication that racial slurs and bigoted speech necessarily cause harm and thus should be immune to 1st amendment protections (if that's not what you were getting at, I apologize).

Nothing (and I repeat; NOTHING) cause harm "by necessity", even a gunshot-wound to the head can miraculously do more good than harm (in some convoluted way), but it is, as it is with everything else, the likelihood of something causing harm that we debate. And since racial slurs and bigoted speech are more likely than not in most occasions to cause harm, it is to be frowned (i.e faced with legal action) upon.