The problem here is that the pro-censorship people have already made up their mind, so arguments like Bob's won't convince them of anything.
The Big Picture: On The Subject Of Violence
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
This was the best big picture so far why cause it was a big picture heavy handed and makes you think well done
I agree with this thesis completely. It really doesn't matter what we do because there will always be some lunatic fucking up someones day. We as people just have this need to feel like we can take control of the situation. Or somehow guarantee things like this won't happen again if we find the source of the problem. The truth is hard to accept and that truth is, life is chaos, shit happens and it can be rough so wear a helmet and adapt.
I like the thought process in this one.
We do need those darker themed games, books and movies because humans have a very dark side to us and exploring fiction is a way for us to vent or work through that side of us in a way that doesn't harm others because if you repress these things and force "happy thoughts", you're going to do more harm than good and end up a mental wreck.
Art can't make people do anything unless they're already sick in the head and I think it's more a lesson of how much harder it is to get mental healthcare than guns.
We do need those darker themed games, books and movies because humans have a very dark side to us and exploring fiction is a way for us to vent or work through that side of us in a way that doesn't harm others because if you repress these things and force "happy thoughts", you're going to do more harm than good and end up a mental wreck.
Art can't make people do anything unless they're already sick in the head and I think it's more a lesson of how much harder it is to get mental healthcare than guns.
I agreed with it, but a former ESL teacher Bob, I have a few suggestions:
1. "Folks". The "L" in this word is silent.
2. "both". There is no "L" in this word.
Sorry Bob, couldn't stop myself.
1. "Folks". The "L" in this word is silent.
2. "both". There is no "L" in this word.
Sorry Bob, couldn't stop myself.
People enjoy violence
We always have and always will
It's a part of humanity and so long as it's encoded into our very DNA it will pop up time and time again
However madmen don't act like animals
They act like madmen
Madmen may use violent video games/ movies/ books/ paintings/ tablecloths etc as a focus for their madness and go on a rampage
Madmen may go on a rampage for no conceivable reason whatsoever
Both points are equal in value, which is to say none and the only real link between madmen and rampages is still that they are crazy
Madness just being a simple all encompassing term describing all mental illness or abnormality that leaves people unable to function within societal norms
We always have and always will
It's a part of humanity and so long as it's encoded into our very DNA it will pop up time and time again
However madmen don't act like animals
They act like madmen
Madmen may use violent video games/ movies/ books/ paintings/ tablecloths etc as a focus for their madness and go on a rampage
Madmen may go on a rampage for no conceivable reason whatsoever
Both points are equal in value, which is to say none and the only real link between madmen and rampages is still that they are crazy
Madness just being a simple all encompassing term describing all mental illness or abnormality that leaves people unable to function within societal norms
You know what? Tomorrow I'll go into a bakery store shoot the owner and claim that my hate for bread forced me to do this. Just to see them talk about the evilness of bread!
(of course I wont do that - this is just sarcasm - I would never hurt anyone)
In my opinion that norwegian killer just said he used MW2 to train killing because he wanted to focus rage of stupid people against games again and get more attention. He most likely just made that up. People like that are insane and they will does this kind of stuff no matter what...
The only thing society can do to actually prevent this kind of stuff happening (or to decrease the rate this stuff is going to happen - it's impossible to prevent it alltogether) is stopping to actually create these insane minds. Todays western societies are mad. Most of it begins already at childhood with brain washing in schools, TV advertising and other stuff and it goes on in jobs. Mobbing, simple jealousy and this greedy "me first" attitude is the kind of stuff that forms these minds.
Look what's behind the mask these killers put on. Usually their lifes are completely fucked.
Society is creating these killers - not games or television alone
(of course I wont do that - this is just sarcasm - I would never hurt anyone)
In my opinion that norwegian killer just said he used MW2 to train killing because he wanted to focus rage of stupid people against games again and get more attention. He most likely just made that up. People like that are insane and they will does this kind of stuff no matter what...
The only thing society can do to actually prevent this kind of stuff happening (or to decrease the rate this stuff is going to happen - it's impossible to prevent it alltogether) is stopping to actually create these insane minds. Todays western societies are mad. Most of it begins already at childhood with brain washing in schools, TV advertising and other stuff and it goes on in jobs. Mobbing, simple jealousy and this greedy "me first" attitude is the kind of stuff that forms these minds.
Look what's behind the mask these killers put on. Usually their lifes are completely fucked.
Society is creating these killers - not games or television alone
I'm sorry, but it seems that I phrased it incorrectly.Xanthious said:
What I want to express is the following. Even in countries with strict gun control these shootings happen with legally bought weapons. So it seems that strict gun control obviously doesn't prevent killing sprees.
But you can wreak so much more havoc if you can buy firearms that are for military use only. A SMG or a MG has nothing to to with sport or self defense. They are tools to wage war and the access to those kind of weapons should be restricted to the military. They don't belong to, as you called them, law abiding citizens.
And from my understanding (I'm not from the states) you can legally buy this equipment in the US.
And I said that violent media can have an bad influence on people especially if they suffer from a kind of mental sickness. But in my opinion there are other influences that have a much greater effect that violent media has.
That does makes sense, we don't connect positive emotions to it but subconsciously a part of us does express the same feelings as if we did, it's not something we can control but pandering to those feelings (like the news media does) is exactly the problem.Katya Topolkaraeva said:
I'd just like to remind people that violence is not the leading cause of death in the United States (according to the CDC) or the world (according to WHO, and my mini web-search might be wrong). I don't mean to trivialize the victims, but I just want to keep things in perspective in the flood of people saying the world sucks.
It's just that the leading cause of death in United States media coverage is violence. True, the United States media covers other sorts of deaths, but usually moves on. When it comes to massacres? The media won't move on.
What else do I have to add? I happen to have 3 mental illnesses, but I can handle the dark material in the media and even the dark fantasies in my head. For starters, my dark fantasies last only for a few seconds. Also, I don't own any weapons or drink alcohol.
I'd like to focus on another reason why my crazy ass isn't going out and killing people. I know the difference between the mentally ill in certain media like comic books and the mentally ill in real life. The mentally ill in comic books can frequently be machines of destruction, able to slaughter people wearing uniforms and able to break out of prisons with toothpicks. Practically all the mentally ill in real life would get their asses kicked by SWAT teams and would never escape a prison.
It's just that the leading cause of death in United States media coverage is violence. True, the United States media covers other sorts of deaths, but usually moves on. When it comes to massacres? The media won't move on.
What else do I have to add? I happen to have 3 mental illnesses, but I can handle the dark material in the media and even the dark fantasies in my head. For starters, my dark fantasies last only for a few seconds. Also, I don't own any weapons or drink alcohol.
I'd like to focus on another reason why my crazy ass isn't going out and killing people. I know the difference between the mentally ill in certain media like comic books and the mentally ill in real life. The mentally ill in comic books can frequently be machines of destruction, able to slaughter people wearing uniforms and able to break out of prisons with toothpicks. Practically all the mentally ill in real life would get their asses kicked by SWAT teams and would never escape a prison.
This is really what I've been saying about violence in media this whole time, and I'll say it as many times as I have to.
Video games, movies, TV shows, music, etc... all have an effect on us whether positive or negative. It's really frustrating to see so many people here absolutely go nuts whenever some study or some scientist even thinks about linking some sort of effect that video games may have on someone. Eloquently put by our very own Critical Mis [http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/57/57427.jpg].
Also, I can't be the only one not surprised that this was easily linked to the gun control debate, though I would argue that these two subjects are fundamentally different.
Video games, movies, TV shows, music, etc... all have an effect on us whether positive or negative. It's really frustrating to see so many people here absolutely go nuts whenever some study or some scientist even thinks about linking some sort of effect that video games may have on someone. Eloquently put by our very own Critical Mis [http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/57/57427.jpg].
Also, I can't be the only one not surprised that this was easily linked to the gun control debate, though I would argue that these two subjects are fundamentally different.
It kinda reminds me what I said to defend games in front of my mother
"Give a madman spoon and he'll kill his neighbors, his family and then himself with this spoon"
Fact is that inadequate people will find "inspiration" to hurt and kill innocent people in anything
Ban everything and they will start to look at stars at night and weather changes
(I personally believe that it is how first religions started. "People, you all know that there was no rain for some time, but in stars I saw the answers to our troubles. We need to burn all of our young women and then gods will send rain to us. And I must emphasize, this NOT because they all declined my marriage proposals, and I'm NOT worthless human being, THIS IS THE WILL OF GODS and I am their voice." And so on. I dare you to prove me wrong)
"Give a madman spoon and he'll kill his neighbors, his family and then himself with this spoon"
Fact is that inadequate people will find "inspiration" to hurt and kill innocent people in anything
Ban everything and they will start to look at stars at night and weather changes
(I personally believe that it is how first religions started. "People, you all know that there was no rain for some time, but in stars I saw the answers to our troubles. We need to burn all of our young women and then gods will send rain to us. And I must emphasize, this NOT because they all declined my marriage proposals, and I'm NOT worthless human being, THIS IS THE WILL OF GODS and I am their voice." And so on. I dare you to prove me wrong)
Very nice set of arguments, Bob.
It doesn't matter what they ban, which age restrictions they place, whether or not they allow blood and gore or if they neuter some of the most celebrated if graphic literary or visual representations in the world - bitches be crazy.
Nutjobs will always and forever find something to inspire them. Pro-censorship arguments often rest on the idea that if *that one reprehensible thing* is banned, then everything's going to be sunshine and bunnies. I'm terribly sorry, conservative or easily scared parents, but that's not how the world works.
You want your kids to not turn out to be fucking psychos? Take care of them, then. Educate them yourselves. Pass on the values you'd like them to have. Don't just sit there waiting for school or high school or college to do it for you. Inform yourselves on what it is your kids find interesting. Try them out, maybe. Talk it out with your kids, too. Who knows, maybe your crotch dumpling's more mature than you think, and he's totally aware that Mortal Kombat's fantasy vivisections cannot and should not occur in real life.
Get involved. That's always been the key, and will forever keep being the key. Understand what the average kid and/or gamer likes. Do your research. Figure out why your pre-teen boy has nothing but contempt for the safe Mavis Bacon typing aid you just bought him and why he's more interested in being a fantasy Marine shooting down fantasy Afghans.
Above all, don't condemn these things for what they are. Understand what purpose they serve, who they appeal to, and which market gives rise to products like nowadays' endless deluge of gritty military shooters. Understand why Batman's so goddamn popular. Figure out on your own terms that he's one big-ass wish fulfillment fantasy about us wanting to imagine a guy who's closer to the Little People than to the Man, and who still takes control of things to keep everyone else safe.
That's what I'd tell your average passive parent if I could.
It doesn't matter what they ban, which age restrictions they place, whether or not they allow blood and gore or if they neuter some of the most celebrated if graphic literary or visual representations in the world - bitches be crazy.
Nutjobs will always and forever find something to inspire them. Pro-censorship arguments often rest on the idea that if *that one reprehensible thing* is banned, then everything's going to be sunshine and bunnies. I'm terribly sorry, conservative or easily scared parents, but that's not how the world works.
You want your kids to not turn out to be fucking psychos? Take care of them, then. Educate them yourselves. Pass on the values you'd like them to have. Don't just sit there waiting for school or high school or college to do it for you. Inform yourselves on what it is your kids find interesting. Try them out, maybe. Talk it out with your kids, too. Who knows, maybe your crotch dumpling's more mature than you think, and he's totally aware that Mortal Kombat's fantasy vivisections cannot and should not occur in real life.
Get involved. That's always been the key, and will forever keep being the key. Understand what the average kid and/or gamer likes. Do your research. Figure out why your pre-teen boy has nothing but contempt for the safe Mavis Bacon typing aid you just bought him and why he's more interested in being a fantasy Marine shooting down fantasy Afghans.
Above all, don't condemn these things for what they are. Understand what purpose they serve, who they appeal to, and which market gives rise to products like nowadays' endless deluge of gritty military shooters. Understand why Batman's so goddamn popular. Figure out on your own terms that he's one big-ass wish fulfillment fantasy about us wanting to imagine a guy who's closer to the Little People than to the Man, and who still takes control of things to keep everyone else safe.
That's what I'd tell your average passive parent if I could.
Well said Bob.
Not to mention if you some how did manage to ban everything and just lived in this ultra bland artless world, you'd have people commenting murders and blaming it on the lack of an outlet (IMO, there would be more murders because of a lack of an outlet then because of violent media.)
Not to mention if you some how did manage to ban everything and just lived in this ultra bland artless world, you'd have people commenting murders and blaming it on the lack of an outlet (IMO, there would be more murders because of a lack of an outlet then because of violent media.)