The Big Picture: On The Subject Of Violence

[General Vagueness]

Who thought having a video ad on a video feature page was a good idea? It's almost impossible to watch this without the sound stuttering or worse.

 

[theultimateend]

"You don't punish innocent people for the possible crimes of others."

>_>...Capitalism says otherwise! /ohoho.

I know...lazy jab at DRM.

Anywho, its the problem with philosophy. You "could" cease to exist tomorrow. I think saying "not likely" wasn't far enough when explaining just how unlikely it was.

1 guy in 330 million?

Holy shit, how is that just "not likely"? That's...SO SMALL!

Good heavens if I had a 1 in 330 million chance for something to go wrong I'd do that something.

 

[Jovius G.M.]

All I gotta say... is nothing else needs to be said.

Thank you, Bob.

 

[TazTheTerrible]

Ehn...

I don't quite like how far you stretch "possible" in this one. I mean sure, it is possible, but almost anything is possible if you don't have to worry about "likely".

It's just as possible that violent media have a cathartic effect and generally decrease the level of violence in a society by letting people blow of steam. Much harder to verify of course since by definition, all the people who didn't snap and do something violent because they had violent video games to vent in won't really show up in the media.

Regardless, censorship is indeed pointless. And I personally would, in fact, defend the principle of free art as valuable over some slight and completely unproven security concerns.

It's easy to say a human life is the most valuable thing and always takes primacy, but exactly how valuable would a human life be in a world that didn't allow it freedom of thought and expression?

 

[RJ 17]

A well made point, Bob, and you actually voiced what is essentially my take on the whole matter: "You cannot predict the actions of a made-man."

My view is that we shouldn't be looking for anyone/anything to blame for horrible events like what happened in Aurora. The simple fact of the matter is that there are BAD people out there that are going to do BAD things. Who's to blame for those BAD things? Well it's the BAD people that do them. It isn't the gun the bad person used. It isn't the music the bad person listened to. It isn't the movies or games the bad person watched or played. If those things were truly to blame, then we'd have events like this happening all the time.

No, it comes from a person with a twisted view on reality/the world. They can say that a certain book or game or song inspired them, but guess what: countless other people read that book, played that game, and watched that movie and they certainly didn't feel inspired to go on a murderous rampage. So what does that tell us? The person who committed the heinous act is to blame, NOT what he or she was watching/playing/listening to.

We seem to understand this when dealing with some tragedies and forget it when dealing with others. What outside influence caused 9/11? I don't recall hearing about any books or movies or such getting blamed. Why? Because we knew what 9/11 was: a terrorist attack. It was caused by terrorists with the express purpose of spreading terror. We didn't need to ask Al Qeada (spelling) what music they were listening to or what movie inspired them, we already knew what motivates them: they have a beef with western civilization.

Sooooooo why do we immediately think that something like Aurora, which equates to domestic terrorism, couldn't possibly have been committed by someone who wasn't inspired/"told" to do it by some outside source? The message being sent is that AQ is squarely to blame for a terrorist attack yet a home-grown mass murderer isn't to blame for his own attack. No, it was the movies or games that made him do it. Give me a break...

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Thank you Bob, for putting down what I have been feeling but could not find the right words to express it with.

 

[DugMachine]

Goooooood stuff Bob. I can't find that gif of the guy doing the slow clap but if I could i'd totally post it here. 10/10

 

[VonBrewskie]

I ask Bob and this thread, do you think it's time for America to introduce more strict levels of gun control? Please support your answers with debatable responses. We should get the conversation going.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Does any one know what could have prevented the Denver incident? GUN CONTROL!!


PSh, the forums suddenly look a lot more "slick". That's nice

He would have found a way to get guns anyhow. I mean he rigged his apartment to blow. He seems like he knew how to get things.

The Netherlands have some very tight gun laws as well, and they also had a home-grown mass murder shootout last year.
I'm not saying that gun control won't cut down on the total amount of violence happening - in fact I'd say it will - but it won't provide a golden bullet to prevent madmen going off on a rampage.

Exactly, in a case like this, gun control means nothing. But big picture (no pun intended) gun control would decrease the amount of gun violence. In the case of some crazy guy that is dedicated to shooting up a movie, he is going to find the guns.

Yeah, there's really no way of stopping people like this. Our society has 300 million people, it's statistically inevitable. We live in huge metropolitan cities with no sense of community. No one knows his/her neighbor. People like this easily slip through the cracks.

People seem to forget that the Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people. If you want to stop horrific things like that we should be focused on fertilizer, not guns. Bombs are a lot more deadly, much easier to make, and much harder to trace than guns.

Oh, and gun control really only helps to prevent crimes of passion through the waiting period. Other than that it just acts as an obstacle. It would only stop a crazy person if the person in question was just going to do it on a whim and couldn't be bothered with the extra hassle of getting guns illegally. Frankly, I'm pretty sure the decision to shoot up a place requires quite a bit of commitment, and I rather doubt that these people will just give up and not go on to try to get their guns illegally. Especially because it isn't terribly difficult.

Here's how you buy illegal guns:

[Note: I am merely stating this for the sake of argument. I have never solicited any illegal services from anyone, nor am I in possession of any illegal firearms. This is a crime, DO NOT DO IT!]

Step 1) talk to some people who look like they smoke weed and find a drug dealer.

Step 2) ask the drug dealer for stronger stuff, if he just sells weed then he will refer you to his supplier who sells other stuff; heroin, etc. This person is the one you want to talk to.

Step 3) create a relationship with this person, possibly by using drugs in front of them. Once you've proven that you aren't a cop you can ask them if they know anyone with some unlicensed guns. If they don't sell guns, they'll refer you to someone who does.

Yes, it takes a bit longer, but it's hardly rocket science. It shouldn't be very hard to get an AK-47 using this method, though you will probably have to buy some handguns first. The worst part about this is that these guns are untraceable.

New gun control laws just make it a hassle for ordinary citizens. If we could just enforce the laws we already have we could cut way down on gun violence. The majority of gun violence in America is gang related, and they don't use legal guns. They get their guns from the cartels just like their drugs. Stopping illegal guns would take the exact same things as stopping the flow of illegal drugs. We'd have to completely shut down the border.

But not even that would be enough, there are just too many illegal guns on the street already. The only way to fully stop gun violence would be to have a giant police crackdown where we temporarily suspend some civil liberties so that police can search and arrest people without warrants and gather up all the guns. And no, I'm not an NRA conspiracy theorist. I'm simply stating a fact. That's what you would need to do in order to get all the guns off of the street. The American people aren't willing to do that, so it isn't going to happen. Sorry gun-control advocates.

However, I'm not against common sense regulations. Clearly assault rifles and automatic weapons should require special permits and thorough background checks. What we should really have in place are monitoring systems that put up red flags that the ATF and FBI can follow up on. If this nutjob simply couldn't buy his guns legally then he would have gone off the grid and bought illegal guns. I sincerely doubt that he would have completely given up on his plan because of a little extra hassle. But if the proper monitoring systems and regulations were in place, someone could have looked into his purchases and perhaps the FBI could have stopped him in time.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

OK. First of all: Great monologue about art at the end there. Best part of the video. But I feel like a lot of you are missing a MASSIVE flaw in this video, and I really need to speak up about it:

Why the FUCK do you think it's OK to demonize the mentally unstable like that? Calling them "sub-humans"....Are you fucking kidding? They are NOT just normal people who happen to enjoy causing pain and suffering, THERE IS SOMETHING PHYSICALLY WRONG WITH THEM THAT IS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL. What the FLYING HELL is so hard for people to understand about that? You don't blame a mentally retarded person for not learning as quickly as a mentally healthy person, and you don't blame a crazy person for well...BEING CRAZY. And by the way, the demonization of the mentally unstable is a HUGE part of why it's difficult for them to seek, much less receive, any kind of assistance. Referring to them as "sub-humans" would be right at home in the 1800s, but in this day and age it's FUCKING DEPLORABLE.

Now, obviously a big part of this guy's trial will be about determining if he can still tell right from wrong. If it turns out he can and did what he did anyway, then I guess I'll shut up. But packing all mentally unstable people in with him is...well, frankly Bob, it's pretty disgusting.

 

[frizzlebyte]

Man, I wish I knew Bob in real life. That piece was epic, and I totally agree with him. In fact, this is a much more soundly-worded version of how I think about the subject of censorship.

 

[Katya Topolkaraeva]

Here's how you buy illegal guns:

[Note: I am merely stating this for the sake of argument. I have never solicited any illegal services from anyone, nor am I in possession of any illegal firearms. This is a crime, DO NOT DO IT!]

Step 1) talk to some people who look like they smoke weed and find a drug dealer.

Step 2) ask the drug dealer for stronger stuff, if he just sells weed then he will refer you to his supplier who sells other stuff; heroin, etc. This person is the one you want to talk to.

Step 3) create a relationship with this person, possibly by using drugs in front of them. Once you've proven that you aren't a cop you can ask them if they know anyone with some unlicensed guns. If they don't sell guns, they'll refer you to someone who does.

Yes, it takes a bit longer, but it's hardly rocket science. It shouldn't be very hard to get an AK-47 using this method, though you will probably have to buy some handguns first. The worst part about this is that these guns are untraceable.

Or...you know, just go to Texas or some such place and loot anyone's house who looks like they may hunt...(you'll probly get mostly shotguns though) OR go to shooting range and hang out until you come across someone with a good collection, follow them home, wait till they go to work, take their guns... exc.

 

[Ashoten]

It is important to also realize that making something illegal or "sinful/shameful" does not stop it from happening. This only results in those who want it going underground and forces them to become criminals.

Prohibition

Abortion

Teen Sex

Prostitution

Drugs

The Mexican/American border dispute

Gold Farming in MMOs

and others I can't think of right now. Maybe we will find out about the shooters background and discover he has massive issues with some sort of repressions that finally exploded into a violent crime. In which case pulling back censorship would be the logical solution. Not making media more censored.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

You can't be proactive with crazy, it makes us all criminals. Also film/games/arts can make you do it the bible and religion sure as hell can as well, so lets ban everything!

 

[Triaed]

Thank you for making this, Bob

 

[DTWolfwood]

Crazies will be crazies. If you want to be 100% insulated from them you have to live your life under a freakin' rock.

Also it isn't fair to use an exception to define the rule. Millions saw The Dark Knight, 1 person went insane and shot up a place saying he was inspired by the movie does not instantly mean The Dark Knight and by proxy violent movies are serial killer trainers.

It always irritates me that we love using the exception as the example to justify anything we want.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Here's how you buy illegal guns:

[Note: I am merely stating this for the sake of argument. I have never solicited any illegal services from anyone, nor am I in possession of any illegal firearms. This is a crime, DO NOT DO IT!]

Step 1) talk to some people who look like they smoke weed and find a drug dealer.

Step 2) ask the drug dealer for stronger stuff, if he just sells weed then he will refer you to his supplier who sells other stuff; heroin, etc. This person is the one you want to talk to.

Step 3) create a relationship with this person, possibly by using drugs in front of them. Once you've proven that you aren't a cop you can ask them if they know anyone with some unlicensed guns. If they don't sell guns, they'll refer you to someone who does.

Yes, it takes a bit longer, but it's hardly rocket science. It shouldn't be very hard to get an AK-47 using this method, though you will probably have to buy some handguns first. The worst part about this is that these guns are untraceable.

Or...you know, just go to Texas or some such place and loot anyone's house who looks like they may hunt...(you'll probly get mostly shotguns though) OR go to shooting range and hang out until you come across someone with a good collection, follow them home, wait till they go to work, take their guns... exc.

Well... the obvious downside to that method is that 1) breaking into people's houses in broad daylight is a good way to get caught, 2) if you do it at night these people are quite likely to shoot you, because, you know, they have guns.

Robbing people like that requires quite a bit of effort. You have to case their house, make sure they don't have a security system, make sure their guns aren't locked away in a strongbox (which they probably are), and make sure you don't leave any fingerprints (most of the CSI stuff is nonsense, but someone stealing guns is enough for them to dust for fingerprints). You have to repeat the entire process if they don't have the guns you want. Plus there's no telling how much ammo these people have. If you go buy the same ammo for the guns that people had stolen and you don't have any guns registered to you that require the same ammunition, the police will be on your ass like white on rice.

Not to mention the fact that they'll report the theft, and a stranger that shows up to the gun range right before someone had their house robbed of all its guns is probably going to garner attention. And those gun ranges have cameras. Once you've done it the first time people will be on their guard. Every time you repeat the process you'll have a greater chance of getting caught.

The method I prescribed above is probably a lot more efficient and a lot less likely to get you caught. Not that I'm recommending it. It's illegal and you shouldn't do it.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

As a schizophrenic, I feel I have to make this point, because the media is insistent on being fucktards about it.

The Colorado killer has not been officially diagnosed with anything. The media is already stamping labels on him like "schizoid" and "psychopath," using them as if they were catchall phrases for people who do bad things and completely ignoring not only the very specific context in which these terms are used in psychology, but how badly this misrepresents the vast majority of us who have mental disorders.
I'm Schizophrenic. Yes, I have delusions of persecution. Yes, I experience auditory and sometimes visual hallucinations. Yes, I am at times impulsive and irrationally over-emotional. But I have never in my life had any inclination to do something violent, nor do I have any desire to ever do so because I consider the use of violence to be abhorrent and would rather find any other means to resolve conflicts first.
We are not, as a rule, dangerous to society because we have identifiable symptoms of mental illness. Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - can go off the deep end if external circumstances effect them in the wrong ways and I am sick and tired of every killer being automatically labeled as "schizo" or "psychopathic" by a media which refuses to get its facts straight in favor of sensationalizing their stories.
And I'm disappointed in you, Bob, for using the term "psychopath" in the same way, no matter how much I think you have a point on every other issue you addressed in this video.
Please stop making people like me out to be naturally born bad guys.

I agree with this.

Bob also describes these people as 'subhuman' at one point and frankly that is pretty close to the very facist rethoric they themselves use.

Whatever someone might do they don't stop being human.