The Big Picture: Skin Deep

Tdc2182

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May 21, 2009
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Nerf Ninja said:
Really getting tired of your white guilt Bob.

NONE of us were around back then so quit acting like a black actor getting an "assumed" white role is somehow less to do with his ability as an actor so much as attempts at fairness towards his skin colour because of what happened back then. If that was me I'd be offended by your racism.

Oh and by the way it wasn't just "people of colour" that were being enslaved, take a look at the Irish slave trade some day.
Yet, that in no way compares to African Slavery that went on and was stifled much quicker. I'm not here to deny that the Irish didn't receive their share of "evi", for no better word. But it just was nowhere near as bad.

That, and the fact that you very much missed the point. This is nothing to do with white guilt. Denying that racism isn't very much alive in todays society is what this is about.

OT: Agreed in full, though I honestly never knew that Goku was Asian.
 

HalfTangible

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Apr 13, 2011
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Ya know, i've never actually heard the argument put that way before.

Not the 'slaves are why' thing - that's been done so often that quite frankly it doesn't hold water with me any more. What was new to me was the argument that there are extremely few black characters in literature and movies that are black that don't HAVE to be black (EX: Jim from Huckleberry Finn has to be black [unless they rewrite history for a movie, i guess]). Sorta like 'tax the rich more than the poor because they can afford it, not because they deserve it'

I still disagree vehemently, but I'm glad i heard it presented intellectually in a way that didn't sound like it was coming from a five-year-old with the ideology in question rammed down his throat.

Promoting a racial double standard is not the way to get rid of racism. What SHOULD be done is encourage more minority characters to be created, not to change the ones that already exist.
 

constantcompile

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Sep 9, 2010
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Surprisingly well-executed, much moreso than I was expecting.

I think part of MovieBob's success on The Escapist comes from having to reel in his own emotions about hot-button issues. I'm sure he feels much more strongly about this than he's portraying - he even hints at that himself - but lashing out in anger never ends well, and I think his sensible approach here is bound to be more well-received than an off-the-cuff, unrestricted rant (which I'm sure everyone on the internet has been guilty of at some point or another).

Great episode, food for thought.
 

Firehound

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Nov 22, 2010
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SO... let me get this... it's okay to use racism, as long as it is towards people previously discriminated against. You do understand that no person in AMERICA, which your video is about, is a slave. In fact bob, since I suddenly doubt you know what year it is, Our president happens to be black. Just so you know. That whole racism thing, it doesn't count anymore.

Why do I even try to watch these, I just get to see the same bad habits in the 'Jimquisition' on a much more tolerated person, who I can not figure out for the life of me why.

I personally think that it's great to see new characters. Nick fury turning into Samuel L. Fury was awesome, and that's good, Heimdal turning black is good since he was good. Dragonball Z was just a terrible movie, along with Avatar: the last Airbender. Any examples of good movies?
 

Karma168

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I think one problem with using white actors in non-white roles depends on context:

take a Japanese film/anime and rework the story so that it is set in America, the context of the story has now changed thus there is no rule that says you have to use Japanese actors.

Take a film (i.e the last airbender) where the context is predominately set in a culture that is not white (i.e the Asian aesthetics of said movie) to then have white actors in roles does not make sense.

How does this relate to Thor? Well for one the gods aren't even human so context is out.

Looking at the source material we see that the character Heimdall was introduced in 1962, now there were only 6 comic book characters who were black during the 60s (and only 1 in 62) this was due to the culture at the time; no white kid wanted to read about some ******, they wanted heroes they could look up to. (think about the episode of star trek DS9 where Sisko dreams he's a sci-fi writer writing about DS9, he gets told to change the captain of the station to a white man as nobody wants a black captain) It's part of the culture of the time from which Heimdall originated so there is no reason that we have to stick to it now.

btw love the robin hood reference, though i must say changing the race of Friar Tuck was terrible, almost as bad as a black man playing a Saracen (cookie for reference)
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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Alphakirby said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
It's official, Ponies have taken over the escapist.

And I love it :)
Damnit YOU NINJA!
Yeah,I was just about to bring up that Bob used Ponies as an example for an "ideal world".
But without the "Love" part.

Damn ponies,next thing you know,our resident tosser will like them.
And our newbie and less talented tosser would go next.
O_O

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT!?!

Thanks! We bronies will make it our life mission to make Yahtzee one of the herd! :D
 

draygoncore

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Sep 9, 2009
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I agree...to a point. Yes, the number of minority roles are extremely limited due to a ridiculous mindset that is still permeating our society, albeit less so than years passed. Yes, Hollywood needs to start giving roles to actors based exclusively on their talent and not the color of their skin, unless their skin color is a part of their character ala Green Mile (isn't Hollywood supposed to be liberal...Hrmmm).

However, this change is NOT quote unquote "Repentance" for slavery. This change is for the better of everyone, not to elevate minorities while beating down whites. Such thinking will only breeds additional hate and will only cause further swings in the balance of power between whites and minorities. The idea of this country is that we are all supposed to be equal. In my eyes, and the eyes of most free thinking white young adults, There is no difference between the different ethnic groups.

But we are still suffering from an ancient mindset that believes that skin color gives (or removes) power from an individual. Given one, maybe two more generations, this mindset will become the minority. As the youth of today matures and grow in independent young adults, they will become the artists and filmmakers of tomorrow, and this error in thought will steadily fade away. All we have to do is fortify against breeding further hate and violence in the process.
 

eels05

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Jun 11, 2009
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Yeah normally I agree with Bob but not on this one.
Double standards are pathetic.Also its kind of a sad indication of how bankrupt Hollywood is for originality when they cant invest in creating new characters but will instead take the cheaper option of reversing one race for another.
But on the other hand he did frame his response in context of a North American perspective,of which I'm not.So how you Americans work out your issues is your buisness.

Also I find it ironic when Hollywood has to remake movies like 'Let the right one in','The Grudge',The Ring' etc and recast them with American actors for American audiences.Do Americans have a problem reading subtitles in the usually far superior originals?
 

TheSchaef

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Feb 1, 2008
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gamer_parent said:
native americans are universally spiritual "living off the land" types who spout faux new age ideology
Sometimes, though, stereotypes have their origins in reality. Ever been to Sedona, AZ?

And just a reminder to Bob, DO THE PIZZA CATS SHOW!
 

Double A

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Jul 29, 2009
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I don't think we should be asking ourselves why it's ok to turn a white character to a black one, but why it's ok to turn a minority character to a white one. I think the role should go to whoever plays it best, unless there is a dire need for the character to be a certain color ("A black sheriff!?")

Also, Bob is a brony. Awesome.
 

NaramSuen

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Jun 8, 2010
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Bob, once again, we find ourselves in complete agreement. The world sucks and doing the best thing is usually what we have to settle for.

Part of becoming an adult is the sad realization that things aren't right. I have a student who often complains that life is unfair; yeah kid it is, the sooner you learn that, the sooner you can get on with it.
 

eltonborges

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Apr 25, 2008
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We reject color changes because humanity cannot see other human being as an equal. Some time ago I read that a Greek philosopher said that we "create" our gods as our images. Not entering in religion here, but this applies to our heroes too. Kirby and Lee and other comic creators did just that. And everyone who is arguing could put that in mind: why color count? Why it counts to you?
What happened in Thor was just a bit more mainstream, but I play games, and that is a nice territory too: If you are black in SF you MUST fight boxing or must be Ethiopian and fight Capoeira, and the only one who is not into this is the new Dan. And in SF there is no bad Japanese, except for Gouki that looks like it's possessed.
Metal Gear? Final Fantasy? Devil May Cry? Resident Evil(not talking only about the 5 one)?
And in USA/Canada/Europe? Call of Duty? Halo? Mortal Kombat? Witcher? Mass Effect? Well, it´s easy to keep this list growing. Just remember that normally people don't look at each other as equals, at least not now. If pointing that out may offend anyone, well, you know why.
 

Kei Kaemon

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Nov 30, 2009
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Personally for me, its the same thing as anything else... whoever is the best should get the job.

If a white guy fits the role best, go, asian, go, black, go, hispanic, go. I don't care.
Same thing for business and any other job, if a man can do it better, go for it, if a woman can, she can have it, if a white woman can, good for her, if a black woman can, good for her, so on and so forth. I don't care.

I just want the best people picked for everything, not what satisfies some racial/sex quota.
 

CarlsonAndPeeters

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Mar 18, 2009
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I agree so much. You put into words a complex issue. There really is no good or bad side to this issue; its just a shitty world and some small shed of progress.
 

Alphakirby

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Not G. Ivingname said:
Alphakirby said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
It's official, Ponies have taken over the escapist.

And I love it :)
Damnit YOU NINJA!
Yeah,I was just about to bring up that Bob used Ponies as an example for an "ideal world".
But without the "Love" part.

Damn ponies,next thing you know,our resident tosser will like them.
And our newbie and less talented tosser would go next.
O_O

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT!?!

Thanks! We bronies will make it our life mission to make Yahtzee one of the herd! :D
I'm sorry,my troll sensor is in the shop. But yeah,if you're serious,good luck with that.
 

brazuca

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Jun 11, 2008
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Shoqiyqa said:
brazuca said:
You can not name 100 white actors by color.
Er, what?

Umm ...

Eva Green
Seth Green
Robert Redford
Romola Garai (The Crimson Petal and the White)
Sean Connery and Alec Baldwin (The Hunt For Red October)
Gene Hackman (Crimson Tide)
Vincent Cassel (The Crimson Rivers)
Scarlett Johansson
Demi Moore (The Scarlet Letter and the Moors were Arabs who occupied southern Spain, so that's sort of "by colour" too)
Vivien Leigh (as Scarlet O'Hara)
Scarlet O'Hara
Ol' Blue Eyes
Ray Teal
Alexis Bledel (Violet in Violet and Daisy)
Violet Zaki
Alicia Silverstone
Sarah Silverman
Jeff Goldblum
Goldie Hawn
Ruby Jerins
Rose McGowan
Rose Byrne
Michael Rosenbaum

We can do it, I'm sure ..... or wasn't that what you meant?

What did you mean?
I meant in the sense we watch tv with, film or cartoon with a bunch of caracters (cartoons exception) who are played by white actors and its natural. On the other hand why not a asian, black, native american or whatever minority can look normal (as in well blend with the others)? I know white are the whole majority, but white is also uncannily racist. WASP is a different kind of white from jewish or italian. Yeah, I know US sometimes don't diferrenciate, but have you guys read a federal profile of anyone? It's like to sound less racist Hollywood said: "Ok let the other white spectrum of US be shown to the world." Had livin in the US and now in Brazil and goind to live in Portugal we end up seeing the other part of US culture product of export. It gets you to put more thing under perspective. To stay things on topic. I just went to see Thor and Idris Elba did not felt out of place.