The Big Picture: Skin Deep

[JoeThree]

So you're saying that you're pro-reparations, so long as the returns paid are roles in TV and media and not anything that might benefit a majority of the members if any races previously subjugated by whites? In short, racism was bad, and now only those that no longer suffer from the effects on a socioeconomic level (the poor, under-educated people in ghettos, for example) should benefit some form of Affirmative Action. Wait, right, you're pretending it's not that, it's just a reversal of privallage based solely on race, and so you're right, that's not even an instance of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, it's just racism. You can argue all day that whites have it better, and you know what, in most instances you're right, but that doesn't mean a damn thing at the end of the day in regards to what it is. So to add another question to the mix, are we now saying the ends justify the means? An end that is stupid at best, illogical in reality, and racist at worst. But shit, at least you get to rant on against whitey, and maybe appease some of your liberal guilt.

 

[Anacortian]

This double standard is still racism. Personally, I don't care which race depicts a fictional character of another race, so long as the casting was based on acting ability (and Thor's example was).

Non-fiction is a different matter, but I would hazard to guess that even a George Washington played well by a bushman would be a fine thing. The double take upon hearing it might break my neck, but the applause come from it working would break my hands.

In short, who cares. Anybody who cares for either reason is not the color-blind of which Dr. King dreamt. Damn the imperfect past and live in a better present by forgetting all that shit.

 

[Sean Deli]

Well, points to Bob for explaining his position clearly. At least he has a position to consider.

The black Heimdal character (!!!) raises over 9000 questions to the movie universe. Is he the only black guy in Asgard? Does it mean he has any special powers? Does it indicate any special origin of his character - did he (like Loki) is an orphan of some other race than Asgardians?
None of it explained. None of it even mentioned.
In 30 years someone like Nostalgia Critic would review Thor and scream "Why? Explain, movie! EXPLAIN!"

The answer is actually simple - the movie was not expected to provide immersion. The movie was not expecting the viewer to pay attention to the detail. The movie was not expected to be viewed seriously - because the movie was afraid of being serious (directors should have considered the Fifth Element - the movie is completely ridiculous, yet every detail in it is exactly where it should be).
Thor was just a bottle of maple syrup given to an ADHD child.
Ok, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

P.S. "...he rocks the role" Ok, I had enough of it.
This guys's role had no emotions, not a single facial expression or body language, no voice acting. The only hint at internal conflict (Does he accept the new king or does he resist) was completely botched in execution by movie producers. I don't think you can say ANYTHING about Elba's acting skills with such a stupid role, but then again the movie in general requested little to no actual acting from the cast.

So saying that he was awesome in playing his character is wrong.
His character was awesome, or rather his character was "awesome" - meaning that Heimdal had certain simple characteristics that immediately makes your character "good" in front of teen and tween demographic. It's the same stupid cultural phenomenon, that is responsible for "ninja, robot, zombie, pirate" or "bacon makes everything better" or multiple other example we all know and hate.

 

[minimacker]

The social difference between race seems to be pretty big in the North American continent when comparing to Europe, it seems.

None the less, I'd like to see Isaiah Mustafa as the next Superman.
"The Man of Steel has a new smell."

I do want to speak of the whole fairness between races, though. The thing is, there shouldn't be a fairness. If we keep looking back at the whole British conquering and oppression, the industry is going to favour different races from source material to "make up for history", which is a bad thing.

In an age that's trying to correct it's mistakes and be a better place for everyone, we're making progress. But then again, it's a double-edged sword. By favouring one race over the other to be more correct, we won't let it even itself out, but we're forcing the issue and only causing more misconception and, well, stereotypes.

 

[Saint of M]

The casting of the character wasn't so much a problem as the practice. In this case it makes since, as the actor's talent is well apparent. However I don't like it when there seems to be no apparent reason, or they did it for no reason at all, which is where most of the race lifting in Hollywood happens.

And going back to the slave boat thing...Africa had slaves long before pale skins came to them, and it is estimated that a good chunk of slaves were sold by other Black Africans. Should we blame Africa for that as well while we go on the White guilt thing?

Give black people decent roles, and then we'll talk.

 

[notimeforlulz]

I think the best point in this article is probably about the lack of available roles for a great number of actors. I could guess he just did an article on that, but I would like to see an article on exactly how that can be fixed... "The Brave One" even thought it stars a white chick, is probably a good example of colorblind casting, and it was a good film with performances that were much better than I expected given the source material.

 

[Gentleman_Reptile]

As intelligently worded as this video was, I got completely sidetracked when he threw up the picture of the My Little Pony gang. Whether its just pandering to the obsession or not, I'm glad you did that Bob! Ponies are awesome.

This makes two official escapist contributors who have had pony in their videos.

I also loved the throwout to Idol from Killer instinct.

Getting back on topic, I'm actually a little mad at Movie Bob now. It seems he keeps entering my brain and stealing my muddy, incoherent thoughts, only to churn them out as eloquently worded and interesting pieces about social commentary.

It's Bobception.

 

[Typecast]

PLEASE DO A SAMURAI PIZZA CATS EPISODE!!!! :3

 

[fgdfgdgd]

Nic Fury wasn't just cool for being placed by a black actor, he was nearly the best thing because he was played by Samuel L. mother-fucking Jackson.

OT: Frankly I thought he was damn near the best actor in the joint, besides of course, Anthony Hopkins, but I may be biased there, my man crush for Anthony Hopkins rivals those of most women.

 

[fgdfgdgd]

Screw those nay-sayers! Black folks need representation in the Norse pantheon too!!! However else will they get into Valhalla?

By being brave and skilled warriors! Just like anyone else, the Norse gods are very accepting that way, so long as you have the heart of a warrior, you're welcome in their heaven.

 

[Lou]

Hi Bob. I'm not here to argue, I'd like to thank you for posting some ponies.

You're awesome.

 

[knhirt]

I sort of agree with Bob, and I sort of disagree. In my mind, the world we live in might as well be ideal, in the sense that mostly, race doesn't bother me at all when it comes to casting in movies.
I just don't really think about it. If the performance is good, hell, cast a black man as Gandalf and see how much I care.

Of course, if that black man does a bad job at depicting Gandalf I'll be pretty upset about wasting my money on a ticket, but that goes for all skin-tones.

Seriously, people. It's skin.
Not a big deal unless it's made a big deal.

 

[Harlief]

Well said sir!

 

[00slash00]

i thought the reason people were upset about the dragon ball movie was because it was a train wreck, not because it had a white goku. i mean i never thought goku seemed all that asian to begin with. except for series that take place in feudal japan or clearly state it doesnt take place in the west, i can think of very few series where i instantly think, "okay, hes asian." besides, goku comes from a place where the people there think they are superior to everyone else, are overly aggressive and constantly trying to conquer other places...sounds like an american to me

as far as saying is okay to cast a white guy black but not a black guy white...i gotta say that by this point in my life, im not sure how much guilt i have left. i mean i couldnt care less if they decided to make spider man a black guy, or made him gay or whatever else they wanted to do with the character. they could make a metal gear movie and make snake a girl for all i care. its just that...i can only apologize for the fucked up shit my ancestors did so many times, before it stops being sincere. how come a comic fan can complain that a character doesnt look the way in the film, that they do in the comic, and they are seen as a hardcore fan, but if they say that about a black character who, in the comic, is white, they are seen as a racist? whether you judge someone based on their skin or give someone special treatment because of the color of their skin, either way you are being racist

 

[feeqmatic]

Yeah but modern folks aren't responsible for that slavery so to use that as an excuse for double standards is also silly.

As an African American i get real tired of the "I didnt own any slaves" argument against the effects of slavery.

True, no one alive today owned any slaves, but whether you admit it or not, you are a direct benefactor of the institution of slavery, and institutionalized racism. And conversley those elements affect me and others on a daily basis.

I don't expect people to necessarily feel bad about this, but when someone brings it up, it can get incredibly frustrating to hear that cop out stance as if it negates the feelings and struggles that me other people have faced for our entire lives. Its really just hurtful to hear that nonsense.

The first step to eliminating double standards on all levels is to admit where they exist, and the double standard for African Americans (which exists greatly due to slavery) is so completely ignored by comments like this that it only helps to maintain the issue.

That said, i do recognize that the casting would probably be better off (for the sake of realism...lol) being a white guy. I recognize that being norse mythology, that this possibly was not the scenario where such color blind casting should take place. however, it did not require the vitriol that occurred here, that i didnt see for:

dragon ball z,
Spawn,
Prince of persia,
The last Air bender,
Sinbad the sailor,
A mighty heart,
stuck,
Kung Fu,
21,
The Passion of Christ,
Cleopatra,
pretty much any movie with a main Native American Role...


Im pretty sure with more time and more google i could make a list a mile long.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Where does the need to overthink this come from?

They just chose a great actor for a role he was fit to play. Does it say anywhere the character is white/black/blue/polka dotted? No, it does not. Therefore, isn't the only worthy thought whether the guy is a good actor or not?

I really don't get why all the far-fetched theory about slavery has to come in.

Then again, I'm European, so maybe I am just too far removed from the US-debate on this.

 

[Relin]

Well, points to Bob for explaining his position clearly. At least he has a position to consider.

The black Heimdal character (!!!) raises over 9000 questions to the movie universe. Is he the only black guy in Asgard? Does it mean he has any special powers? Does it indicate any special origin of his character - did he (like Loki) is an orphan of some other race than Asgardians?
None of it explained. None of it even mentioned.
In 30 years someone like Nostalgia Critic would review Thor and scream "Why? Explain, movie! EXPLAIN!"

The answer is actually simple - the movie was not expected to provide immersion. The movie was not expecting the viewer to pay attention to the detail. The movie was not expected to be viewed seriously - because the movie was afraid of being serious (directors should have considered the Fifth Element - the movie is completely ridiculous, yet every detail in it is exactly where it should be).
Thor was just a bottle of maple syrup given to an ADHD child.
Ok, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

P.S. "...he rocks the role" Ok, I had enough of it.
This guys's role had no emotions, not a single facial expression or body language, no voice acting. The only hint at internal conflict (Does he accept the new king or does he resist) was completely botched in execution by movie producers. I don't think you can say ANYTHING about Elba's acting skills with such a stupid role, but then again the movie in general requested little to no actual acting from the cast.

So saying that he was awesome in playing his character is wrong.
His character was awesome, or rather his character was "awesome" - meaning that Heimdal had certain simple characteristics that immediately makes your character "good" in front of teen and tween demographic. It's the same stupid cultural phenomenon, that is responsible for "ninja, robot, zombie, pirate" or "bacon makes everything better" or multiple other example we all know and hate.

Nice Reply. Just wanted to acknowledge and praise your coherent post.

 

[Relin]

double post... sorry

 

[LondonBeer]

Erm ... not to derail but can we have one on Samurai Pizza Cats please

 

[Comando96]

I was born after slavery, Jim Crow, etc and I reject the idea that I owe some sort of historical debt.

If you're white and American, then you benefit from that history of slavery, Jim Crow, etc. Why shouldn't you owe a debt? You're benefiting at the expense of others.

And modern blacks haven't benefitted from that history of slavery?

By and large and as a group in the United States, no, they haven't. They've suffered and continue to suffer from those vestiges.

Apart from the fact that they're even in the United states in the first place, with a chance to make something of themselves?

You're kidding, right? I've never read the history where the West Africans lined up and fought each other for a berth on a slave ship headed to the New World. As I recall, they ended up here kicking and screaming.

Pretty sure I was talking about modern black Americans there, yep just checked, I was. I don't dispute that it was hell for those involved in the actual slavery part.

Do you understand what a "vestige" is? And why is your account of History stopping at the abolition of slavery? The unfair treatment of blacks in American wasn't legally abolished until the 1950s (see Brown v. Board of Education and related cases) and, in some cases, later than that (it was illegal for blacks to marry whites until the 1970s (see Virginia v. Loving) and the school desegregation cases, some of which festered on until the early 1980s)).

You were the one that mentioned about the slaves coming to America not me. I probably should say that I'm English so I'm not really inculcated in the history of America.

I do personally believe that racism in any form is wrong and yes I accept that it's only been recently that you could say it's even possibly on an even keel for all races (Probably not true as such) but as I said at the beginning, my statement wasn't so much that institutional racism no longer exists in America but that MODERN blacks have benefitted from slavery.

Not in any financial sense but rather in a sense that though their "people" have suffered, they themselves individually can achieve a great deal of things that would probably have been denied them had their ancestors not suffered so terribly.

I'm in danger of Godwinning myself here but do you think a German owes a Jew a debt because of the Terrible suffering of the Jewish during the war?

I think it should be acknowledged but it shouldn't be the defining character of those people.

The Germans obviously think they do.

Germany, by way of agreement with Israel, has paid $715 million in goods and services to the State of Israel as compensation for taking in survivors of the Holocaust; $110 million to the Claims Conference for programs to finance the relief, rehabilitation, and resettlement of Jewish Holocaust survivors; and direct reparations to selected individuals over a 12-year period amounting to several hundred million dollars and still counting.

Thats because those people are still alive... or were alive when compensation was paid.
With African Americans the idea was that they were all descendants of Slavery but to compensate they were given citizenship and equal rights(eventually...supposedly).

As far as I see it history cannot be undone, but what should happen now is that race should not count... but financial status, no matter your colour should. Help the poor... if the poor are black due to institutionalized reasons then so be it, still help'em.
I've gone beyond acting but in America if a black neighbourhood is destroyed in a hurricane for example I bet that years and years afterwards it would still be rubble. Contrast that to a white neighbourhood :| Yeah... a year at max if planning the building takes a while.

I think the time when positive discrimination should disappear is when racism has disappeared... or balanced out evenly on both sides >.>