The Big Picture: Skin Deeper

[RJ Dalton]

I'm not going to watch this one, now. I'm actually going to try to see the movie (supposing it ever comes to any of the theaters here, which it might not because it looks and sounds Indi-ish and nothing that sounds Indi-ish ever comes to theaters where I live (GODSDAMMIT!)) and I'd rather go into it with something of an ability to draw my own conclusions.

Sorry, Bob.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I'm getting what you're trying to say, but one has to ask the question: why was the context ignored in the first place?

It was ignored by stupid people. There's your reason.

What they said. Some people just completely miss the point...

So Bob since the past is unchangeable and that historical stigma and blackface will always be around, isn't those double standard justifications going to be eternal?

Seriously how would we know when we can drop the double standard altogether. I really want to know.

The answer's probably going to be more non-white roles but roughly how many do we need?

Also, this.

I don't think it'll ever happen.. or maybe I'm just cynical...

 

[esperandote]

This movie looks great yet too deep for me to understand and enjoy that kind of puts me off of watching it.

I didn't know about the Washowski... siblings part.

 

[brazuca]

So to americans latinos are not white? French, italians, polish, spanish and portuguese are all not white. Kind remembers me an episode of Family guy.

 

[punipunipyo]

Educated, nice one Bob....

 

[sonofliber]

So to americans latinos are not white? French, italians, polish, spanish and portuguese are all not white. Kind remembers me an episode of Family guy.

[ youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paQnokH3Px4]

this so much, everytime they say latinos like its some sort of skin coloration, cause HOW YOU DARE TO SAY THAT WHITES ARENT ONLY AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS?

 

[daxterx2005]

cloud atlas looks awesome, I still can't wait to see it.

 

[ZephrC]

So Bob since the past is unchangeable and that historical stigma and blackface will always be around in the past, isn't those double standard justifications going to be eternal?

Seriously how would we know when we can drop the double standard altogether? I really want to know.

The answer's probably going to be more non-white roles but roughly how many do we need?

That's easy. You'll know that time has come when people stop making a big deal about this kind of thing.

It's pretty sad how quickly and easily history forgets things, really.

 

[PunkRex]

I know this is a little off topic but concidering just how badass Idris Elba was in Thor and Rock'n'Rolla im surprised he's not bigger state side... or here in the UK actually. Seriously, I thought he was gonna be the next BIG black actor.

 

[Akio91]

So.....this is the first I've heard of this. Bob, are you making up issues for views? Or is this some Hollywood insider mad that the rest of us have missed out on?

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Mandarin [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/10006-Lets-Watch-The-Iron-Man-3-Trailer.2] when you were talking about "yellowface" racial acting. Hell, just us responding to that article had an interesting conversation on how to adapt the character to the modern hair-trigger racial response...

Ben kingsly is asian BTW, just a bit further west than china is all (india)

While I was referring to the Mandarin character in general, this actually pisses me off a lot more than it should. "Asian" is a really troubling concept for me, mainly because it merges several distinct cultures that each maintain a single identity but historically exchanged key cultural elements (such a Buddhism) while maintaining their separate identities. Hell, what is commonly referred to as "the Chinese" is actually an amalgamation of several ethnic groups that were unified every few centuries under an emperor. Hell, ever noticed that the northern half of the continent is Russia?

But the thing that really infuriates me is the idea that Indian is close enough to Chinese that they can be effectively swapped. It's not. Minus a small handful of similarities (hey, there's Buddhism again), they are very, very different cultures and people. Even their traditional ideas of time itself are starkly different from each other. The traditional Chinese take was that was more objective and could be cataloged, which was the reason behind a surprisingly accurate and complex bureaucracy and historical record system, where as the traditional Hindu concept of time was more fluid and that humans had been living the same cycles of life and death meant specific moments in time were less important than the people travelling through it (truthfully, it's been a while, so some of the specifics may be inaccurate, but the macro points are there). And this is one of the elements that distinguishes the two cultures. Nor does this get into the modern history of the last 200 years and how the west had drastically different approaches to the two cultures.

Wow... that was probably more of a rage post than I anticipated. My point is not to say that Ben Kingsly is a bad actor or pick because he's of Indian heritage, as he's probably one of the best actors in the modern era, but rather the idea that "hey they're both Asian; who's going to notice?" is okay...

 

[aba1]

I don't really see how this is a issue if anything this movie proves that ethnicity really is not a thing as much anymore. Now directors can hire the best actor for the part and if need be use some makeup to change there race if it is even relevant. Now we can have actors who are just best for the part.

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

So to americans latinos are not white?

It depends. For census/demographic purposes, there are actually two separate categories for white and non-white (and sometimes you see things like "non-hispanic black" too, depending on what you're looking at). A lot of Puerto Ricans have mostly Spanish ancestry which makes them largely white/European, for example, while there are other groups in Central/South America that mixed much more extensively with the existing cultures and have much less European ancestry proportionally, in some cases relatively little. And then you have other people, like many Dominicans or some groups in Brazil, who have substantial African ancestry. Basically it varies a lot and it's too complicated to say that they, as a group, are or are not any one thing, but yes, many of them are not considered to be (and don't consider themselves to be) white.

French, italians, polish, spanish and portuguese are all not white.

My initial response to this was, "wat." I'm not even sure what it has to do with previous sentence unless wherever you're from considers "latino" to mean what we (rarely) use something like "Latin peoples" to describe, which is something very different (and also has nothing at all to do with Poland). In the western hemisphere, latino/hispanic tends to pretty much exclusively refer to people from the Spanish-/Portuguese-speaking countries of the western hemisphere. Europeans are not included in that. And Europeans are white. My parents are from two of those countries (my mom was born and grew up in one of them before coming here), and it would be hard to find someone considered whiter than I am. Heh.

 

[Hitchmeister]

I'm getting what you're trying to say, but one has to ask the question: why was the context ignored in the first place?

Mainly because the issue was primarily raised by people who had no context. They saw Jim Sturgess in Korean make-up in the trailer and reacted without knowing anything about the story. "Never let facts interfere with a good righteous indignation."

 

[Darmani]

I and MANY of the racial complainers have a much more targeted issue with the issue of racebending casting. There are STILL limited dialogue, roles, examples, and just narratives in the current culture outside of some narrow even demeaning ones.

The issue of whitewashing a cast of actual real life diversity is to remove the voice, issues, pressence and contribution that ethnic group and people have given to the culture, the stories they have had and tell, and etc. You keep bringing up Tyler Perry as sorta embarassing but at least he's not just casting the people but putting something on the issue and in a way that isn't quite about telling for the comfort of white people mainstream even if it is for cross media of religious and middle class black and white and so on people with a favoring to women (the dudes are usually handsome and the subject matter romance of drama women are not adverse to) Which is strike one on the anti-woman thing. Some women like it and some hate it. so ya know.. big thing. Just like some black people like it and some black people hate it but its still valid art and production.

I know representation can get a major eye-roll but take all the nerd insecurities and frustrations of dumbing down or cleaning up the message the feel you have to personally be responsible for all the actions within the group as culture and imagine it isn't defined by personal predilections, hobbies, or intellectual direction and affectations. But the ethnic group you are born into.

This is why people should get pissed when a story about asian american college students with math degrees is just too unmarketable lets make them white. How the overwhelmingly Hispanic filled military can get white washed (and is ALways led by an average sized dark haired everyman with his most distinguishing feature likely being southern (where did all those ne, midwestern, etc soldiers go). At the very least taking from the diversity and vigor of life and revitalize and avoid some cliches and stock things.

Now personally as this feels more stagey than most movies I'm giving the race thing a pass and EVERYONE gets to play as different roles in different times along different events I agree. The point is "same character/soul/essence different situation" and using the unique circumstances of acting to convey these things. But I would imagine a discussion is to be had because the idea they couldn't have done this with actors cast alike.. anyways.

 

[Winthrop]

I take issue with the 21 stuff. I do remember people complaining that the main character wasn't Asian in the film, but I also recall the person he was based on being a Russian. As such it wasn't a major complaint. Also, some Asian characters remained (although they were secondary characters).

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Yet again Bob applies double standards by claiming that its okay for non-whites to play white roles but that it's immoral for whites to play non-white roles. You can't have true equality while blatantly discriminating against one group of people, you have to treat them all equally.

Context is everything. Historically within the movie industry it is a bad thing due to the unsettling history of blackface. In the present it sucks because there are few enough roles for minorities already, taking away more is just silly.

Bob also shows his arrogance and close mindedness by saying that anyone who doesn't agree with him is an idiot. No Bob if people aren't convinced by your argument then it's your fault for not having a better argument, not their fault for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horse.

I don't think he did that at all here. Maybe you should learn to listen.

Finally making an exception because you liked a movie where whites played non-white roles is just hypocrisy. Either it's acceptable for whites to play non-white roles or its not; you can't introduce a cop out by saying that it's unacceptable unless you like the movie for whatever reason.

Only a Sith deals an absolute. ONLY A SITH.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So to americans latinos are not white? French, italians, polish, spanish and portuguese are all not white. Kind remembers me an episode of Family guy.

No, central and south Americans are not White, indigenous people from Europe are White.

 

[porpoise hork]

I'm getting what you're trying to say, but one has to ask the question: why was the context ignored in the first place?

It's simple the same people who ignored the context and thus are all in an uproar about the film are also the same people who think that this..

Is quality entertainment.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Funny you should choose this particular topic 'cause I was just thinking about how ridiculous all these race issues have gotten. It seems to be that creative people need to walk on eggshells and broken glass for fear of being accused of being racist, sexist, or whatever. Heaven forbid these groups have to endure the same criticism and cultural commentary that everyone else does. And by "everyone" I mean the white heterosexual anglosaxon male because it seems that anyone who doesn't fit that description is some sort of minority and therefore immune to criticism and/or cultural commentary . ¬___¬
And since I, myself, am a white heterosexual male, I'm sure someone's going to accuse me of being racist or sexist or whatever just for pointing that out.

That. THAT. THAT AGAIN. I fear saying my mind sometimes, simply because it could be considered racism (in Brazil you don't have to take a racist ACT to commit the crime, simply stating a racist comment would be enough). But it's funny how, when YOU accuse certain groups of something, or simply state a belief, no matter how stupid and unfounded, then they say it's merely their religion, and we're all human and then you get sued and maybe even arrested. But when it comes to THEIR opinion, they DO see themselves as a better RACE, and whenever some shit falls on them they attack with past traumas, past traumas that were horrible and are now the very basis of their international (shotgun)politics with the rest of the WORLD.

Yeah i'm sick of people playing race cards. It's gotten to the point where people don't even know why they have a race card to play but they play it anyways. I mean, I saw a guy in Edmonton (Canada) claiming he was being thrown out of a bar because of racism. He and the bouncer were the same race. Other people were going "dude, you can't really play that particular card in this Country..." Sigh.