The Big Picture: Skin Deeper

[Darmani]

I and MANY of the racial complainers have a much more targeted issue with the issue of racebending casting. There are STILL limited dialogue, roles, examples, and just narratives in the current culture outside of some narrow even demeaning ones.

The issue of whitewashing a cast of actual real life diversity is to remove the voice, issues, pressence and contribution that ethnic group and people have given to the culture, the stories they have had and tell, and etc. You keep bringing up Tyler Perry as sorta embarassing but at least he's not just casting the people but putting something on the issue and in a way that isn't quite about telling for the comfort of white people mainstream even if it is for cross media of religious and middle class black and white and so on people with a favoring to women (the dudes are usually handsome and the subject matter romance of drama women are not adverse to) Which is strike one on the anti-woman thing. Some women like it and some hate it. so ya know.. big thing. Just like some black people like it and some black people hate it but its still valid art and production.

I know representation can get a major eye-roll but take all the nerd insecurities and frustrations of dumbing down or cleaning up the message the feel you have to personally be responsible for all the actions within the group as culture and imagine it isn't defined by personal predilections, hobbies, or intellectual direction and affectations. But the ethnic group you are born into.

This is why people should get pissed when a story about asian american college students with math degrees is just too unmarketable lets make them white. How the overwhelmingly Hispanic filled military can get white washed (and is ALways led by an average sized dark haired everyman with his most distinguishing feature likely being southern (where did all those ne, midwestern, etc soldiers go). At the very least taking from the diversity and vigor of life and revitalize and avoid some cliches and stock things.

Now personally as this feels more stagey than most movies I'm giving the race thing a pass and EVERYONE gets to play as different roles in different times along different events I agree. The point is "same character/soul/essence different situation" and using the unique circumstances of acting to convey these things. But I would imagine a discussion is to be had because the idea they couldn't have done this with actors cast alike.. anyways.

 

[Winthrop]

I take issue with the 21 stuff. I do remember people complaining that the main character wasn't Asian in the film, but I also recall the person he was based on being a Russian. As such it wasn't a major complaint. Also, some Asian characters remained (although they were secondary characters).

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Yet again Bob applies double standards by claiming that its okay for non-whites to play white roles but that it's immoral for whites to play non-white roles. You can't have true equality while blatantly discriminating against one group of people, you have to treat them all equally.

Context is everything. Historically within the movie industry it is a bad thing due to the unsettling history of blackface. In the present it sucks because there are few enough roles for minorities already, taking away more is just silly.

Bob also shows his arrogance and close mindedness by saying that anyone who doesn't agree with him is an idiot. No Bob if people aren't convinced by your argument then it's your fault for not having a better argument, not their fault for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horse.

I don't think he did that at all here. Maybe you should learn to listen.

Finally making an exception because you liked a movie where whites played non-white roles is just hypocrisy. Either it's acceptable for whites to play non-white roles or its not; you can't introduce a cop out by saying that it's unacceptable unless you like the movie for whatever reason.

Only a Sith deals an absolute. ONLY A SITH.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So to americans latinos are not white? French, italians, polish, spanish and portuguese are all not white. Kind remembers me an episode of Family guy.

No, central and south Americans are not White, indigenous people from Europe are White.

 

[porpoise hork]

I'm getting what you're trying to say, but one has to ask the question: why was the context ignored in the first place?

It's simple the same people who ignored the context and thus are all in an uproar about the film are also the same people who think that this..

Is quality entertainment.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Funny you should choose this particular topic 'cause I was just thinking about how ridiculous all these race issues have gotten. It seems to be that creative people need to walk on eggshells and broken glass for fear of being accused of being racist, sexist, or whatever. Heaven forbid these groups have to endure the same criticism and cultural commentary that everyone else does. And by "everyone" I mean the white heterosexual anglosaxon male because it seems that anyone who doesn't fit that description is some sort of minority and therefore immune to criticism and/or cultural commentary . ¬___¬
And since I, myself, am a white heterosexual male, I'm sure someone's going to accuse me of being racist or sexist or whatever just for pointing that out.

That. THAT. THAT AGAIN. I fear saying my mind sometimes, simply because it could be considered racism (in Brazil you don't have to take a racist ACT to commit the crime, simply stating a racist comment would be enough). But it's funny how, when YOU accuse certain groups of something, or simply state a belief, no matter how stupid and unfounded, then they say it's merely their religion, and we're all human and then you get sued and maybe even arrested. But when it comes to THEIR opinion, they DO see themselves as a better RACE, and whenever some shit falls on them they attack with past traumas, past traumas that were horrible and are now the very basis of their international (shotgun)politics with the rest of the WORLD.

Yeah i'm sick of people playing race cards. It's gotten to the point where people don't even know why they have a race card to play but they play it anyways. I mean, I saw a guy in Edmonton (Canada) claiming he was being thrown out of a bar because of racism. He and the bouncer were the same race. Other people were going "dude, you can't really play that particular card in this Country..." Sigh.

 

[Ukomba]

I simply can't bring myself to care about this. There are plenty of studios around the world that use actors almost exclusively of the race of that country. If you want to see Asians in movies, there are lots of asian movies, some even getting subed or dubbed releases here. If you want Indians in movies, there's Bolly Wood. It's not the same with those of African descent considering there's no black country currently capable of supporting a large film industry in the same way.

So, cries of Race bending when it comes to Asians just comes off as whiny. There are lots of studios in Asia capable of producing their own 'Last Air Bender' or 'dragon ball' and I wish one of them would do so. For kicks, put a white face guy in there. That way people can start crying about asian films history of prejudice and we can all be united in our offence.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Context is everything. Historically within the movie industry it is a bad thing due to the unsettling history of blackface. In the present it sucks because there are few enough roles for minorities already, taking away more is just silly.

So what. Just because white and black actors blacked up their faces in the past doesn't justify racial discrimination in the present.

Note how I quoted your whole post and argued against all your points. Note how you quoted the easiest parts of my post to deal with and ignored half of my points. Go back and notice the other point I mentioned in that paragraph then get back to me.

Bob also shows his arrogance and close mindedness by saying that anyone who doesn't agree with him is an idiot. No Bob if people aren't convinced by your argument then it's your fault for not having a better argument, not their fault for not agreeing with you. Get off your high horse.

I don't think he did that at all here. Maybe you should learn to listen.

You're the one who needs to listen. Bob clearly stated that in a "perfect world" he wouldn't have to explain to people why he was right and they were wrong. This shows just how arrogant Bob is and how little he thinks of the opinions of others.

Yeah, no insults, no belittling, just noting that in a perfect we wouldn't have these issues, which could be interpreted to say that in a perfect world (one without the current inequalities) it would be the same, or that people would think contextually and already understand why it is an issue. If that is your standard for arrogance you must know some painfully humble people. In fact, I wouldn't call such people humble even. That's a bit too insulting to those who make humility a virtue rather than a character flaw. I'd say such people are spineless.

 

[hentropy]

I didn't like the cross-race makeup, not because of racial sensitivity, but simply because it didn't work and broke immersion. The "same actors in each story" worked in a few cases but when they tried to go too crazy with the cross-race and cross-sex makeup it just became woefully noticeable and didn't add anything. The only one that was believable was Halle Berry, and she's already light-skinned and bi-racial anyway. I think they sacrificed a certain amount of enjoyability and believability in the name of trying to make some kind of ham-fisted racial point. Jim Sturgess didn't look like an Asian and neither did Hugo Weaving (who just looked like Spock). It just looked like they pulled their eye skin back a bit and called it a day. And yeah, they probably could have hired actual, good Asian actors (or just play Sturgess/Weaving as white, as white people existed and were everywhere apparently in Neo Seoul) and it would have added to the story without breaking immersion.

 

[Sejborg]

I didn't even know that Cloud Atlas was being attacked for those things? Are you seeing ghosts Bob?

 

[Malisteen]

Why the hell should the fictional context of the films narrative trump the real life context of Hollywood's racist casting choices?

Simply put, it doesn't. Cloud Atlas doesn't get a pass on this just because you think it's a good movie, and it doesn't get to pull racist stunt casting just because it ostensibly delivers an anti-racism message. Context counts for a lot, but a film's context isn't just what makes it onto the screen, it includes the industry and society that produced it, and the one hand cannot wash the other.

 

[Arakasi]

If a famous actor can play a mentally handicapped person instead of a mentally handicapped person playing themselves I am perfectly fine with that.

As such, I am perfectly fine with black face, white face, whatever face a good actor puts on to play his/her role. Who cares if a minority doesn't get a role because of it? As long as they had the equally denied opportunity that your average white actor had when applying for it.

 

[Canadish]

I know this is a little off topic but concidering just how badass Idris Elba was in Thor and Rock'n'Rolla im surprised he's not bigger state side... or here in the UK actually. Seriously, I thought he was gonna be the next BIG black actor.

Considering that there are alot of rumors suggesting that they want him as the next Bond, you might well turn out to be right.

Who was complaining about Cloud Atlas? I'm struggling to think of any communities THAT desperate to be offending by something outside of Tumblr. Or maybe Fox News if you're looking at the other end of the spectrum...

Still not on board with the double standard there Bob, even if I sympathize. It's never the correct long term solution to a problem.

(Besides, I'd rather just see some NEW characters and ideas as opposed to constant rebooting and "reimaginings" of older ones.)

 

[awesomeClaw]

My response to all this is: Who the fuck gives a shit?

I mean honestly, why is this an issue? Yeah, I know historical context with black-face and yadda yadda yadda but come on, why are we arguing about this?

"They made a white person have asian/black makeup!" So what? Honestly. SO. FUCKING. WHAT?
Why is this a problem? Yeah, it takes away roles from the minorities, but if the casters want that particular person for that role, why should it matter if the role is black, asian or white? If they wanted >insert minority actor here< for the role instead of Brad Pitt or whoever, why does it matter? And in reverse, why does it matter if they want Brad Pitt? The only argument I´ve seen for why the minorities should get the role(s) is "because they´re minorities."

That shouldn´t give you a special privilege, just like being white shouldn´t give you a special privilige.

To qoute a wise man: "I think not being racist is the new racist."

 

[Don Reba]

Only a few months now until it hits the theatres.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Unfortunately, there's a lot more keeping people from liking Cloud Atlas than just the way casting is portrayed. Shame, really, because it's an amazing movie, easily one of the most ambitious I've ever seen, and it handles so much more than just the idea of race. Critical panning and audiences not paying attention are cutting the feet from beneath it, and that's really unfortunate.

 

[roelani]

If a famous actor can play a mentally handicapped person instead of a mentally handicapped person playing themselves I am perfectly fine with that.

As such, I am perfectly fine with black face, white face, whatever face a good actor puts on to play his/her role. Who cares if a minority doesn't get a role because of it? As long as they had the equally denied opportunity that your average white actor had when applying for it.

I realize there are bigger issues here, concerning changing times and trying to all at once change minds, change world viewpoints and just generally try to steer public perception towards a more 'equally-respective global community' or what have you... And I agree with the concept, because clearly we still, as a species, have a lot of freaking ground to cover before we reach some unknowable Utopia where everyone is equal, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, social status and all the rest...

...

BUT, I can't help but feel that you nailed it, right there. Because, at the end of the line, an actor is playing a role. And if an actor, whatever his/her gender/race/aforementioned status and blahblahblah is just the right person for the job and has exactly the skills that the directing team wants and his or her presence on screen is just RIGHT for the role and people watching the auditions all collectively get that little delicious frisson of 'ooooooooh, he/she's the one, Goddamn', then why on earth should anything else matter?

If it works, it works. Like you said, if nobody else was actually denied opportunity, then everything seems golden to me. And, by and large, the cast of Cloud Atlas seems pretty damned diverse.

This is a no-brainer, in my opinion. I see no problem here.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Shouldn't it just come down to the abilities of the actors themselves when playing the role? In this day and age, when most (I'd like to say all, but unfortunately that's not the case.) parts of the world are trying to move past racism and make the world a better place, why can't films just have actors in them for a role that the actor had proven to do well in.

So long as no one was denied a part due to their race, just their acting ability, then I do not see the bigotry in that. I thought equal rights is what everyone wants, you can't make some things exclusive to certain people over others, because that doesn't seem very equal at all.

If a famous actor can play a mentally handicapped person instead of a mentally handicapped person playing themselves I am perfectly fine with that.

As such, I am perfectly fine with black face, white face, whatever face a good actor puts on to play his/her role. Who cares if a minority doesn't get a role because of it? As long as they had the equally denied opportunity that your average white actor had when applying for it.

I couldn't agree more.