Look, I realize there is no chance in Hell anyone is actually going to do this. But I want it on record that talking about the anti-semitist and blatantly misogynistic morons crapping all over her Kickstarter is not actually productive at all, except in that she could've deleted their comments but didn't because pretending to be a helpless victim has proven exceptionally profitable, and we should all stop pretending that the opinions of the anti-semitist pricks is actually relevant to anything at all. Those people are idiot trolls, and nobody thinks otherwise except their own number, who are idiot trolls whose minds cannot be changed anyway.
The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Agreed, especially in the last three movies. However, what made Die Hard 1 appealing was John McClane walking on barefoot over broken glass. His only superhuman quality is determination - which is what made a hero. In the same world of idealized masculine heroes - see Rambo and Arnold - Bruce Willis was the closest thing to a regular joe. He fits the trope of "Badass Normal," btw. As for the injuries - none of that was abnormal for an action movie in the 80's. However, it was also shown that he had to suffer rather than as an immortal being.WitherVoice said:
Now, Die Hard 2-4 he was turned to as an extraordinary man. In the first one he was ordinary caught in an extraordinary situation.
You kinda missed the whole, criticisms versus 4chan'ers. Moviebob is paying attention to the Reddit and /b/chan bombs on her video instead of the actual problems with her methods, her attitude, and why/how she's doing this entire series. That's my problem with him right now. He's too focused on the people that Orbital Ion Cannon random websites for fun. They're the morons. Instead of ignoring them, we got a 6 minute video whining about how trolls are trolls.
You are a minority in dating. I could date non-superficial women, if they existed. That's not fair, they do exist, they're in their 40's and 50's. I want to date someone that isn't on the far end of menopause. Women that can breed care about looks. But hey, if you want to continue this, take it to the off topic channel and join the many many threads about fat unemployed gamers that can't get laid. I was referring to his comments about fat ugly gamers and how just because there's Mario that we should be happy that there is ONE not buff male in AAA video games.
You are a minority in dating. I could date non-superficial women, if they existed. That's not fair, they do exist, they're in their 40's and 50's. I want to date someone that isn't on the far end of menopause. Women that can breed care about looks. But hey, if you want to continue this, take it to the off topic channel and join the many many threads about fat unemployed gamers that can't get laid. I was referring to his comments about fat ugly gamers and how just because there's Mario that we should be happy that there is ONE not buff male in AAA video games.
Sounds good to me. If there's one developer that's doing sexes right, it's Bioware. FemShep is unique but not inferior to ManShep, and vice versa, and neither one is cut out for appearance.
It's the kind of approach most videogame dev's should take now and I do think us gamers need to stop expecting 10/10 bodies on female characters portrayed in a sexual way. It doesn't have to go away (see: Lollipop Chainsaw) because sometimes they're the centre-piece to the game, the whole point of it, but it doesn't ahve to be in 95% of all games ever made.
- 550+ comments in 17 hours? Holy crap, it's the fastest growing thread I've ever seen. Not only that but it's now one of the biggest... It seems that every single person on this entire site (and more) have come by to drop a comment or thought on the situation.
It's the kind of approach most videogame dev's should take now and I do think us gamers need to stop expecting 10/10 bodies on female characters portrayed in a sexual way. It doesn't have to go away (see: Lollipop Chainsaw) because sometimes they're the centre-piece to the game, the whole point of it, but it doesn't ahve to be in 95% of all games ever made.
- 550+ comments in 17 hours? Holy crap, it's the fastest growing thread I've ever seen. Not only that but it's now one of the biggest... It seems that every single person on this entire site (and more) have come by to drop a comment or thought on the situation.
No, as mentioned, "normal" would be dead. If determination is his only "special" trait then it is ABSOLUTELY MAGICAL. Also: "Badass Normal" is "normal" in name only, the "badass" portion overrules, cancels and shoots the "normal" into space.jmarquiso said:
Parody is the only worthwhile to do with your opinions mate. Your type is not worth arguing with.PercyBoleyn said:
I'd vaguely like to know how you see any difference between a podcast kickstarter and Sarkeesian's kickstarter
What I can see your only salient point is that you disagree with her opinion. Plenty of people obviously disagree with you or are otherwise disgusted with the trolls that do and do this:
http://feministfrequency.com/archive/wikipedia_harassment1.png
People money is to do with as they wish and If you think that Sarkeesian's kickstarter is a scam then 90% of other kickstarters are also scams. You are merely manufacturing outrage because you disagree with her.
NOT VALID. Sorry.
The fact is that gender stereotypes cut both ways, saying it does, but then saying it doesn't negatively affect men because society doesn't actively use how men look against them(still laughing at that one), so we are just gonna concentrate on women's pain and completely ignore the other side is not only sexist in its self but also completely ignorant.MovieBob said:
I Have no problems with her video series, I actually support the discussion. I do have a problem with the elated support she is getting just because she trolled for hateful YouTube comments to try and drum up publicity for her kickstarter and people like MovieBob bought it hook,line and sinker.
So why don't you get onto 4chan and drum up an internet lynch mob for these guys?Maldeus said:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/988149443/the-comedy-button-podcast-from-the-makers-of-the-d
You better be quick they're already 32 episodes in those fucking scammers. How dare they rip people off like that? Oh what's that? You don't care because they don't disagree with your opinions?
Fair enough then.
You're a strawmanning idiot. Yes, that Kickstarter absolutely looks like a scam. I grant you, I can't be bothered to do a whole lot of research into that one specifically because no amount of screaming on the internet will change it. I can't see anything about their stated goals that would cost any actual money to produce (with possibly the exception of, like, $400 for some really nice mics and a max of about $1000 more for some editing software, all of which they should already have if they already made this in the past). They are asking for donations just to put money in their pocket, and that is explicitly not what Kickstarter is for.
EDIT: Although they do say they need props and costumes, which, over the course of 48 episodes, could actually amount to something. I seriously doubt they couldn't get the budget under $2000, but sketch comedy does actually have costs that sitting in front of a camera and talking about an opinion no one sane disagrees with does not.
EDIT: Although they do say they need props and costumes, which, over the course of 48 episodes, could actually amount to something. I seriously doubt they couldn't get the budget under $2000, but sketch comedy does actually have costs that sitting in front of a camera and talking about an opinion no one sane disagrees with does not.
Even after seeing the Video, I only see one true Problem: Trolls beeing immature Trolls on YouTube channels.
Honestly? The Sexism Works both ways. If a male sees a curvy women he thinks: Yeah! I'd hit that!
When a women sees the standart Muscle, sixpack and whatnot guy she doesn't think: That guy Probably is a very skilled and trustfull handycraftsman. >;P
Seriously? I know for hard fact that it works both ways Equally.
If the dumb boobie blond chick gets Promoted before the glassed suit wearing archiever type of lady, then it is prolly because that particular Boss needs a new matress, or it was a model job.
The true Problem is still the Internet trolls, blasting with full voloume on that Paar ladys channel.
And for sure Bob picking very one sidet for a change, wich kinda puts me off from this Episode.
Honestly? The Sexism Works both ways. If a male sees a curvy women he thinks: Yeah! I'd hit that!
When a women sees the standart Muscle, sixpack and whatnot guy she doesn't think: That guy Probably is a very skilled and trustfull handycraftsman. >;P
Seriously? I know for hard fact that it works both ways Equally.
If the dumb boobie blond chick gets Promoted before the glassed suit wearing archiever type of lady, then it is prolly because that particular Boss needs a new matress, or it was a model job.
The true Problem is still the Internet trolls, blasting with full voloume on that Paar ladys channel.
And for sure Bob picking very one sidet for a change, wich kinda puts me off from this Episode.
Sure, I could have chosen a better example. I agree with you on that point.WitherVoice said:
And right, "True Normal" is boring, if we reduce normal to someone with no identifying flaws, quirks, positive or negative traits. Because that's not normal.
The hero of a story in general must overcome great odds, otherwise it isn't a story, it's a statistic.
Let's look at "Nick of Time". A movie sold specifically on the idea that Johnny Depp is a normal guy trying to save his daughter. It's just less well known.
I was trying to say that narrative has moved on from myths about pseudo gods that we seem to have in Video Games (Kratos being a literal example) to stories about vulnerable people. John McClane is far more vulnerable than John Rambo, and Die Hard became the more praised film. (First Blood made 47m, Die Hard made 87m and was a surprise hit - John Rambo's advertising showed him as a roided up determined marine, McClane showed fear). I was trying to demonstrate an evolution here.
If the best you could say about a character is that they're a roided up space marine or a princess needing rescuing, they're not compelling, and their immature narratively. Narrative heros and heroins tend to evolve into more everyday people. They still need to have some quirk or some flaw that makes them watchable and interesting, sure. They no longer have to be "the most beautiful" or "the strongest" as is the case of early mythology and narrative - and was the case with silent film.
*sigh* I checked out Tropes vs Women and some more of Sarkeesian's videos... what to say?
Her making videos? I have no problem with this. She sees something that needs comment, she comments. Good thing.
Her asking/getting money to do it more? Well, a man, or woman, has got to eat, right? Stuff costs money, time is money. If she wants money to do something, and people are willing to pay, capitalism is served and we should all be celebrating... I think.
I'll not be giving her money. I don't have too much money kicking around, and I'd prefer to spend it on entertainment. Sarkeesian does not entertain me.
Here's what I'll do about her: I suggest everyone vote with their wallet. You feel that what she brings to the table is worth five bucks to you, give her five bucks. Those who think she's some kind of scary/annoying/whatever horrible horribadness... don't give her any money.
As for her: vote with your wallet. Don't give money to people who make stuff that's male chauvinistic and misogynistic, shower money on that which you find "good". Make it successful. I've never before heard anyone lamenting that they have become powerless, now that they are a demographic worth marketing to... that's the greatest power most people HAVE in a society, seriously.
Her making videos? I have no problem with this. She sees something that needs comment, she comments. Good thing.
Her asking/getting money to do it more? Well, a man, or woman, has got to eat, right? Stuff costs money, time is money. If she wants money to do something, and people are willing to pay, capitalism is served and we should all be celebrating... I think.
I'll not be giving her money. I don't have too much money kicking around, and I'd prefer to spend it on entertainment. Sarkeesian does not entertain me.
Here's what I'll do about her: I suggest everyone vote with their wallet. You feel that what she brings to the table is worth five bucks to you, give her five bucks. Those who think she's some kind of scary/annoying/whatever horrible horribadness... don't give her any money.
As for her: vote with your wallet. Don't give money to people who make stuff that's male chauvinistic and misogynistic, shower money on that which you find "good". Make it successful. I've never before heard anyone lamenting that they have become powerless, now that they are a demographic worth marketing to... that's the greatest power most people HAVE in a society, seriously.
I'd like to stress a point about Anita that was made in a Bill The Man From Kentucky video: She didn't tell the whole truth about that PowerPuff Girls episode with Femme Fatale. Anita failed to mention that the issues brought up by Femme Fatale were dealt with. Granted, there may need to be more stronger solutions than just putting Susan B. Anthony on the Dollar Coin, but the issue was addressed by the show creators.
Another thing is that she accused Mattie Ross from True Grit of not being a feminist character for willing to resort to violence. I disagree: there are times in fiction, especially less realistic fiction, that a character should solve a problem with violence. If feminism is about equality between men and women, shouldn't there be times that male and female characters have to solve things with violence?
Would this mean she'd dislike entire video game genres for being violence based? But then again, she gave her donors stickers of Zelda with sword and board, two tools only good for violence. Confusing...
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pacifism in gaming. It's why I don't make fun of casual gaming, as it supplies gaming with a long-overdue boost in pacifist fun. I've even rolled on a World of Warcraft server just to play alongside Noor the Pacifist. I just feel squeamish that a web series about sexism in gaming is by someone who may not be asking for fighting game characters to be more feminist, but for fighting games themselves to stop existing. And this producer may bend truth to do her attacks.
Another thing is that she accused Mattie Ross from True Grit of not being a feminist character for willing to resort to violence. I disagree: there are times in fiction, especially less realistic fiction, that a character should solve a problem with violence. If feminism is about equality between men and women, shouldn't there be times that male and female characters have to solve things with violence?
Would this mean she'd dislike entire video game genres for being violence based? But then again, she gave her donors stickers of Zelda with sword and board, two tools only good for violence. Confusing...
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pacifism in gaming. It's why I don't make fun of casual gaming, as it supplies gaming with a long-overdue boost in pacifist fun. I've even rolled on a World of Warcraft server just to play alongside Noor the Pacifist. I just feel squeamish that a web series about sexism in gaming is by someone who may not be asking for fighting game characters to be more feminist, but for fighting games themselves to stop existing. And this producer may bend truth to do her attacks.
Oh, yeah, while we're at it, her standards for what counts as a "good portrayal of women in gaming" appears to be totally non-existent. If there's a good example of a female character, she picks some random trait like "is violent" and uses that to condemn the character as being not good enough, even though being violent in bloody True Grit is not exactly a drawback.
There's a panel show in Australia (The Gruen Transfer) where they analyse ads.
The marketing people on the panel were discussing why sex sells. Something along the lines of:
It works on women because they think 'that couldn't be me' then the ad says 'But it could with THIS'
It works on men because they think 'that could be me'.
Hm, I probably missed something there, at some point there's meant to be insentive for the man to buy the product... but you get the idea! Muscle bound men can easily be there for the men to envisage themselves as, but apparently, for some reason or other, it doesn't generally work the same way for women.
The marketing people on the panel were discussing why sex sells. Something along the lines of:
It works on women because they think 'that couldn't be me' then the ad says 'But it could with THIS'
It works on men because they think 'that could be me'.
Hm, I probably missed something there, at some point there's meant to be insentive for the man to buy the product... but you get the idea! Muscle bound men can easily be there for the men to envisage themselves as, but apparently, for some reason or other, it doesn't generally work the same way for women.
I love it when people complain about straw men. It shows that can find little legitimate objection to an argument so the trot out phrase "straw man" like it means something.Maldeus said:
The only justifications I have seen here for attacking Sarkeesians kick starter is that it's a "scam".
A kickstarter can be started for any creative endeavour and the particular worth of a kickstarter project is not up to you to decide. People are allowed to give money to something without knowing a thing about it apart from that they have previously liked content from someone and they'd like to see more of it.
People clearly liked her stuff enough to meet her funding goal in 24 hours and $24,000 before it blew up into a 4chan shitstorm. They want to see more. They don't think its a scam and apparently neither does kickstarter or they'd have shut it down like they have other projects in the past.
That she leveraged $125,000 more dollars after the controvosy it is probably just. Maybe dickheads will think harder about bandying about terms like "jewish princess fem-nazi slut" (To the embarrassment of everybody that shares their gender.) against women they disagree with Obviously the result is contrary to their interests.