The Big Picture: Words for Nerds

[emeraldrafael]

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

The last time I heard that phrase being used, someone was picking their teeth off the ground and the person who said it was laughing.

...

More OT: while I agree not every post needs some long huge summary that culd probably pass as a decent school writing assignment, there are cases where you need all this information. Talking about any new tech specs or discoveries could and would definitely warrant a long post. besides, there's nothing wrong with having some meaningful conversation on the internet.

Though I do agree about batman. then again... I never saw why he specifically was so special. he's a rich boy who fights crime, and yet has no super power other than having a great inheritance. He's not superhuman in anyway, he's just average.

 

[Agayek]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The LCP rule is not about the amount of words you post, it's what you say with them. It's true that it's not always been like that, but I've never moderated a post just because the word count was low. I have however done so for meaningless "this^" posts and the "I'll just leave this here:" posts Bob mentioned. However keep in mind that this is a grey area, for more information feel free to check the Moderation FAQ. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.309173-Moderation-FAQ]

This is flat out untrue. I've had numerous moderations for posting an image that perfectly encapsulates my point and required no further elaboration, and when I challenged it, I was straight told that I'd need to include some (any) text with it.

Maybe you don't do it that way, but the other mods sure as hell do.

 

[The Random One]

#5 is not because of victim-caused entitlement complex, thought that certainly has a little weight. #5 is because most memes come from 4chan, and 4chan does not give a shit. They don't think 'It's OK for me to say shit about black people/women/arabs/the colorblind because I've been bullied and I would never do that to another', they think 'It's OK for me to say shit about black people/women/arabs/the colorblind because people don't say it because they give a shit, whereas I do not'.

#3, what the fuck? So if I like making a post I'm supposed to cut it short? For what reason? Should I use that time I saved not doing something I like doing what? If I write shorter comments I'll just read more articles on the internet (since I do that during what is mostly 'internet time') so I can't see how passively reading what someone else wrote is better than writing something myself. The idea that no one will read it doesn't matter because I write a lot of stuff that no one reads because I don't show to anyone and it's a much better hobby than even playing videogames, as it's an active one. What harm possibly comes out of it?

EDIT:

This is flat out untrue. I've had numerous moderations for posting an image that perfectly encapsulates my point and required no further elaboration, and when I challenged it, I was straight told that I'd need to include some (any) text with it.

Maybe you don't do it that way, but the other mods sure as hell do.

I'm not a mod and I don't want to be one, but my humble opinion is that if your opinion is so simple that an image macro made years before by people thinking something else encapsulates your point requiring no further elaboration, it might be a better idea to keep that opinion to yourself.

 

[MarsProbe]

Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

Indeed, it's not all fun and games here. Try telling a "brony" why you think their watching of a cartoon about magical ponies is not a good thing, for starters.

If you're that passionate about MLP, stick it down on your CV under interests, if you haven't done so already.

 

[kyogen]

Nice one, Bob! I second the calls for a pony episode, though. It's a phenomenon that baffles me, but if it's your thing, then it's your thing. Go for it. I would just appreciate a little insight into something that I am clearly not getting.

 

[Craazhy]

Fantastic episode. Especially enjoyed the final bit on bullies. Keep it up!

 

[Furrama]

Does this video mean that we lady people will be able to come out on the internet without getting trolled?

Probably not for a long time. Immaturity dies hard. Nice to see some older guy in the community calling it out on its crap though. First steps in the right direction.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Ah, isn't hypocrisy fun?

I especially love the part where he tells us that "nerds" are becoming too discriminative while still throwing in multiple sly jabs at that demographic he includes anyone he disagrees with in that is the "douchebags".

 

[2xDouble]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

Intent, despite the legal divide, is not separate from action. If you did something, you did it, regardless of how it was meant.

If you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you should probably never say that thing at all. Netiquette 101.

 

[MovieBob]

"If a temple is to be erected, a temple must be destroyed."
- Nietzsche, Genealogy of Morals

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

I'm almost surprised he didn't mention furries at the end there considering they seem to one of those groups that everyone likes to dump crap on.

but furries aren't nerdcore, and they scare everyone. It's safer to not mention them, lest he offend the non-furries by not talking down on them, or the furries and their mighty dwarven armies by doing so

Or maybe it didnt come up

 

[The Cheezy One]

I admit that I did use to bully a couple guys for exactly the reasons Bob has said. I assumed that a pecking order meant it was ok to piss on the guy below you, even if you were only second- or third- bottom yourself. I'm better now, people that I used to bully I try to be nice to, or avoid if for some reason I can't bring myself to accept them.

Pecking order does not validate anything. Be nice to the guy that brings k'nex or mechano to high school.

 

[Agayek]

I'm not a mod and I don't want to be one, but my humble opinion is that if your opinion is so simple that an image macro made years before by people thinking something else encapsulates your point requiring no further elaboration, it might be a better idea to keep that opinion to yourself.

Considering the instances I'm referring to are things like posting an image of a Space Marine Dreadnaught in a debate on the various merits of the factions in 40k, or a Big Lebowski thing about opinions in response to someone ranting.

I could easily write a paragraph or two explaining the point in exhaustive detail, but it's far simpler, easier and conveys the exact same information to simply post the image. 'A picture's worth a thousand words' and all.

 

[Susan Arendt]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

 

[Furrama]

Nice one, Bob! I second the calls for a pony episode, though. It's a phenomenon that baffles me, but if it's your thing, then it's your thing. Go for it. I would just appreciate a little insight into something that I am clearly not getting.

I actually might be able to hook you up if he never does it. Let me see if I can find it...

Here it is! Pony retrospective (G1-G3.5): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32418-episode-57-my-little-pony-retrospective-part-1

Part 2 (G4): http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/cr/ff/32594-episode-58-my-little-pony-retrospective-g4

I think that's a good place to start if you have the time. CR is more knowledgy about it than I am... I was a little too young for MLP the first time, (though I did have a lunch box and some of the toys). As for the new stuff, he gets into that very well I think.

 

[Agayek]

Intent, despite the legal divide, is not separate from action. If you did something, you did it, regardless of how it was meant.

If you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you should probably never say that thing at all. Netiquette 101.

While I happen to agree with the idea here, I'd have to disagree on the precise wording. Words should not ever be offensive to anyone. Insults and various other verbal attacks are one of two things: Correct or Incorrect. If the latter, they can be entirely ignored. If the former, you have to make a judgment call whether or not you agree that it's a problem. If you find it's not an issue, you can also ignore it. Otherwise, you can take steps to correct it.

Nowhere in there does being butthurt and offended come into the picture. It's a ridiculously silly level of entitlement fantasy to think you can get through life without being exposed to something you disagree with. Being offended by it is fucking ludicrous and really needs to stop.

Note: None of what I said here applies to actions. Any unjustified action taken against you should be met with great amounts of outrage and overwhelming firepower.

Edit:

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

True. The point I was trying laboriously to get at is that the meaning behind the words means infinitely more than the words themselves. A veiled insult is far more crude than a swear-riddled congratulation. It's not terribly hard to derive meaning from context, even through text, and the ideas are what are important, not the words themselves.

Words are utterly powerless and completely irrelevant. Ideas have all the power. It doesn't matter how they're wrapped up, as long as the concepts are conveyed.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Batman: overplayed, but at least supportable. I always thought the Chuck Noris thing was lame.

Console Wars: See point on bullying

Posts: We all agree if you have nothing to add, shut up, and if you can't state an opinion in your own words you're just a parrot, but long posts...? I'll admit being verbose mostly due to talking to very hard heads in some of these forums that shout down any opinion without a lot of denfese behind it, but I'd prefer not to truncate myself because people can only absorb thoughts in 140 characters or less. I'll try to keep disortations to a minimum.

Bullying: Short version: people are narcisists, hence the victem becomes the bully, and the bully can play the victem all without question (see any political discussion) and the internet just brings out the worst in us. Yes we're hypocrits, but you'd have to talk to the speicies as a whole, not just nerds.

 

[Something Amyss]

The "Batman wins" stuff wasn't cute in the 90s when Wizard did it to death. It's not now.

Console wars are pretty dumb, yes.

Regarding point 4, YES! THANK YOU! I LOVE YOU! People need to actually voice their own opinions. Youtube has made it worse and people lazier.

To the main event, I'm not so sure it necessarily has to do with victimhood. Sure, I see where this is coming from, but I think the bigger issue here is that being a raging sociopath is cool, and anonymity makes it easier than ever.

The worst thing you can do is show you give a damn about something. We associate callous, douche behaviour with coolness. It's not just the internet, look at the "jock" sterotype, or any of the other major "cliques" from high school. Part of how they distinguish themselves is cruelty. The internet makes us faceless, which makes it even easier, and even easier to just flat out dehumanise anyone at all.

I don't think it has anything to do with victimhood, though it might. I'll touch on tha in just a second. What I think it has to do with is nerds being no different from any other group on the planet. People want to be on top. Popular. Liked. Not the bullied, the victim, etc.

Now, I can sort of see victimhood as an issue, but I don't think it's nerd specific. We've become a victimhood culture. Look at the bullying legislation from Michigan. People took great offense at the fact that they couldn't bully people, to the point they were acting the victim. Were they nerds? No. Most of them were simply part of the "religious" subset of humanity, which is why you have legislation where bullying is wrong, unless (to paraphrase Stephen Colbert) you have a note from God.

It came largely down to "how DARE you persecute us for persecuting people?"

That's not to single out religious people as a whole, but you can see a pattern developing even from that example.

People take great offense at the suggestion of sexism or racism in the media, be they nerd or not. sure, gamers ***** when it's games. Comic book geeks ***** when it's comics. But when it's TV? Everyone gets in on the act.

And I won't go into Herman Cain's media circus, because I fear this is already twice as long as I intended. I may have somewhat demonstrated point three here, but I do feel this stuff needs to be commented upon, and any less content would have gutted what I was trying to say.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'd prefer not to truncate myself because people can only absorb thoughts in 140 characters or less.

Heh. I love you for that. Though I would say I think most people are only bothered by what are considered essays for all intents and purposes. If you take 5,000 words to make a point on the internet, you'd doing it wrong.

That being said, anyone whose attention span is ACTUALLY defined by SMS/Twitter character limits can shut right up when I make a post that's 500 WORDS.

 

[drisky]

I hope every single moderator watched number 4 and will stop banning people for short posts.

TL;DR LCP is a stupid rule

I agree.

Moderators should really stop moderating for short posts and instead focus on pointless ones.

Sometimes, a lot more can be said with fewer words. The concise nature of a post can help communicate your point. But not on the Escapist.

Honestly, the low content rule isn't that harsh. As long as you make one complete sentence, lets say a minimum of 5 words, you get past it. If you had just said, "I agree" in that post without the qualifier, it would call for an infraction. However saying as little as "I agree, it is a stupid rule" you wouldn't get an infraction for it, despite not adding anything at all to the discussion. Enforcing a three word minimum is not that terrible. If I had just responded "Wrong" to your posts, it would piss you off for giving absolutely no reason for why I thought it was wrong, thats why one word posts are not allowed.