The Big Picture: Wrongs & Rights

SidheKnight

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SlightlyEvil said:
Well, as disappointing as it is that the X-Men and the Avengers can't cross over, I can at least console myself with the fact that First Class was really good. Kind of the exception, though. Other than Spider-Man (which tanked at the third film) or X-Men (which arguably tanked on the third film [I liked it well enough] but definitely tanked on the fourth film), what Marvel movies not produced by Marvel themselves have actually been any good?
Ang Lee's Hulk and Daredevil, IMO.
 

LazyAza

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So much legal bs preventing awesome things from happening. This is why I hate copyright and ip laws, and I even studied the damn things as part of my college course. So so stupid.
 

Right Hook

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Dastardly said:
Interesting to me, though, that it'd be okay (and hilarious) for Michael Cera to play Shaft. You could play that for laughs, because "haha, fish out of water!" But if you tried to play, say, a black Spiderman for laughs, that would likely cause mass outrage. The treatment of these things is so all-over-the-map...

But I stand by a black Dr. Strange. With the right casting and writing, the difference would really only matter to the kind of people those kinds of differences matter to. And if it's important to some people that we have a few more minority heroes, why not? And if it's important to some people that we don't have minority heroes, why would we listen to that sort?

The world survived a black Heimdall (Thor), and a black Nick Fury. Would an Indian, Egyptian, Saudi Arabian, Malaysian, or black Dr. Strange really end the world?
I think the main reason why something like Cera as Shaft would be okay is because of cultural differences, it's okay to laugh at white people in such a odd place but playing a black Spider-Man for laughs wouldn't work because there is a lot more racial tension in something like that, there are still plenty of people who would laugh at it not out of humor but out of malice, it's a lot more fragile than its counterpart. Which is completely understandable considering the history of both.

Anyway, I think it would have been awesome if Donald Glover had played Spider-Man, it would have made this new film go from 'meh, I'll probably see it' to 'Yeah, I'm seeing it opening night' for me. I'm glad they went with a black Nick Fury, he is way cooler that 616 Marvel white Fury. Also Micheal Clark Duncan as kingpin was one of the few good things about the DareDevil movie.

However I don't really like the idea of a black Dr. Strange and I'm not totally sure why, it just doesn't work for me in theory. I didn't like that Heimdall was black either, to me it felt like they just shoehorned him in there for the sake of diversity, when it really doesn't make sense given the Norse mythology, which honestly seems more racist to me than leaving him white, kinda like 'Awe man, we don't got nearly enough racial diversity in this film, hmm...which character can we turn black?' I want Dr. Strange to stay white, I guess.

Something we can both agree on though is that Marvel really needs to make a Luke Cage movie.

EDIT: I read over your post again, you really wouldn't want to see Luke Cage in a movie?!
 

Killing_Time

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I'm sure Warner Bros. will at least attempt a JLA movie now that Avengers conquered the world in like a week. If they don't, they officially don't like money.
 

Hexenwolf

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Dastardly said:
Going forward, Dr. Strange is the next logical choice for a stand-alone hero. He's of a different flavor from the other heroes (magic, as opposed to miscellaneous science or mythological gods), so there's room for something new.

Lots of Ant-Man friends out there, but I don't know that he could work in a stand-alone. Also, we have to ask if he's really a different enough character to add to the ensemble. Troubled science guy? We got that covered twice. He'd have to be in a shared movie (like how Black Widow was introduced via Iron Man, or Hawkeye through Thor).

Black Panther is, I feel, a character whose time has passed -- the "everything African is tribal and jungley" era in comics. The only viable reason to run with him is the racial homogeneity of the current team. That leaves us Luke Cage... and I'm not sure he's the best way to go, either. A better choice, for my money, would be a recasting of either Dr. Strange or Ant-Man as non-white.

Dr. Strange could work very well under a different race or ethnicity, as long as we avoid the tendency to make "magical minorities" so overbearingly stereotypical (basically, don't make a black Dr. Strange look like the James Bond Baron Samedi). But then again, why focus only on black? Why not Hispanic Central or South American? Indian?
Well, in theory, Iron Man is Hispanic, though Robert Downey Jr. doesn't exactly portray that.
 

Hitchmeister

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I think Warner Brothers problem is they're afraid of failure. Which ironically leads to it happening. Every time they make a super-hero movie, they go in with the attitude of, we need a really big budget to make sure this comes out right. Then usually make something lackluster and boring.

Before Marvel super-hero movies took off, they scattered the rights around and a bunch of low budget turkeys got made. But it showed all the mistakes that could be made. Got that stuff out of their system. Now they know to trust the source material.

Warner Brothers and DC, need to make a bunch of more modestly budgeted movies to try out various characters and interpretations, with less risk and less need to be a blockbuster. Once they learn to not suck, they can start building a universe franchise and the Justice League movie the comic fans want to see.
 

Starik20X6

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I've been getting really sick of having to explain this to people, so thanks Bob! Now I'll just show this video and be done with it.
 

spectrenihlus

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If we wanted to get Spider man, x-men, et cetera back under Marvel's roof does that mean we should boycott the new Spider-man film?
 

JSW

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GeorgW said:
The trailer for Spider Man was playing right before Avengers, and I got the feeling that the only reason they were doing it was to have Spiderman in 3D, but I guess your reason is much more logical. I wonder if it'd be worth it for Marvel to buy the licences back...
I've seen a lot of people talking about Antman, why do people want an Antman movie?
I'm hoping for a Dr. Strange movie, personally. Deadpool would be a lot of fun, but that could be hard.
Ant-Man (along with his sidekick/love interest The Wasp) was one of the founding members of The Avengers. He's also responsible for the creation of Ultron, one of the more well-known Marvel villains, and one that would be a great fit for a future Avengers movie.

That said, that doesn't necessarily mean that he needs his own movie; he could easily fulfil the more important parts of his role as a secondary character.
 

Xanadu84

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Rorro said:
That would be AWESOME! But... Movie executives, like music executives, aren't much for rational and creative behavior. They are more the petty and short-term vision type, that would rather not see the others make money when they can stop them from making it, even if it means letting an investment opportunity go, such as that one. It would just be too smart a move for them.

I also think the Spider-Man movie will not suck, but I think it will most certainly not be one of the better movies of the summer, the bars been set quite high. I like the creative team, but everything around that movie stinks.
I disagree, business people are usually pretty rational about money when you can show the numbers. You can't put a dollar value on customer loyalty, storytelling innovation or creativity, even if those things do make money. But they do understand things like branding, placement, and having a high profile. If we see that suddenly, DVDs of The Hulk are flying off the shelves, and the next Marvel movie seems to do better then predicted, then business types will suddenly see that getting their IP into the next installment is not just cool and customer friendly, it's a sound investment. Certainly more sound then some nebulous assumption that by charging heavily for use of one IP they may weaken a brand that might act as competition. Even if it doesn't turn the tables, it could potentially give Avengers a stronger bargining position, and enable them to borrow an IP for relatively cheap. You know, Sony asks for X dollars, it gets pointed out that this Marvel movie made 30 million more then they expected before factoring in The Avengers, Sony then asks for X - 30 Million. Down the road we might even see some confusion where one group pays to have their IP in Avengers, while another gets paid, albiet a lesser amount, just because no one really knows whats going on. And thats awesome, because the mess that is copywrite law can suck it. I don't know if it will happen, but it seems like the financial incentives are there.

I think Spiderman being less impressive is not so much a criticism of it as a reflection of how many awesome movies are in the pipe. Avengers is nearly the perfect movie, Batman will inevitably disappoint ridiculously high standards but nonetheless still be a fantastic movie, Prometheus is...yeah. Most great movies would in all likelyhood not stand up to that lineup.
 

Nghtgnt

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I have been substantially less then impressed by everything I've seen or heard about the new Spider-Man movie, and now I know why.

Ah well, I still look forward to seeing it on basic cable.
 

Dastardly

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Hexenwolf said:
Well, in theory, Iron Man is Hispanic, though Robert Downey Jr. doesn't exactly portray that.
Additionally, "Hispanic" is an ethnicity that includes white races. This is why many applications have the option of "White, Not Hispanic." People from, say, Spain are considered "white."

Shotgun Guy said:
EDIT: I read over your post again, you really wouldn't want to see Luke Cage in a movie?!
Not really. He's not the best example of a minority superhero. He plays to too many shallow stereotypes of the "angry black man," and usually just comes across as thuggish. I blame bad writing. He feels to me like the old Shaft character from the blaxploitation era.
 

GeorgW

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JSW said:
GeorgW said:
The trailer for Spider Man was playing right before Avengers, and I got the feeling that the only reason they were doing it was to have Spiderman in 3D, but I guess your reason is much more logical. I wonder if it'd be worth it for Marvel to buy the licences back...
I've seen a lot of people talking about Antman, why do people want an Antman movie?
I'm hoping for a Dr. Strange movie, personally. Deadpool would be a lot of fun, but that could be hard.
Ant-Man (along with his sidekick/love interest The Wasp) was one of the founding members of The Avengers. He's also responsible for the creation of Ultron, one of the more well-known Marvel villains, and one that would be a great fit for a future Avengers movie.

That said, that doesn't necessarily mean that he needs his own movie; he could easily fulfil the more important parts of his role as a secondary character.
Thanks for the info! I get why people would want that, but the way I see it, the movies are made to be a more streamlined version of the canon, and therefore I don't really want it to follow the comic books. I'm not saying I don't want Antman, I'm just saying I don't really want it either. After Avengers, I have complete faith in Marvel to do whatever the hell they want, and it'll be awesome. I am however worried that it'll get too complicated.
 

search_rip

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I don't know how well a Luke Cage's movie could sell but how about a "Heroes for Hire" movie? :)
 

Jegsimmons

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this is why im hopeing 20th century fox partners up with marvel and disney and the others just kind of flop or get canceled and go back to marvel.

the only reason i dont want this to happen with fox is because first class was really damn good, and deadpool is being made with the best crew you can possibly ask for and i dont want this shit to go down the drain for gods sake. the special effect director from the first x-men are directing (tim miller), the writers of ZOMBIELAND are behind it, they got robliefield as a consultant, and ryan rynolds is still the star and they confirmed that deadpool will break the fourth wall, be funny, and have sheer loyalty to the comic books, plus they may go for an R rating.

plus if sonys new spiderman is complete garbage (surely it will be) then maby marvel will hire sam raimi back and we can continue where we left off from spiderman 3 which im growing to like a little bit more each day. not perfect, but what works, works beyond belief.


however, i dont think justice league is very far off.
chris nolans batman wont be a part of it obviously because this is a different batman,
but he is how ever doing superman, which im sure will be good because chris nolan has failed to make a bad movie so far because he puts honest to god effort into scripts and movies.

plus we need a deathstroke, teen titans, and last but not least a LOBO movie.
 

McMarbles

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ZippyDSMlee said:
I liked Green Lantern more than Batman beginnings 0-o
I liked it more than The Dark Knight.

Frankly, I just want Nolan off Batman so we can get a director who isn't ashamed to make super-hero movies.
 

Gatx

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Vausch said:
Evilsanta said:
artanis_neravar said:
Evilsanta said:
Well that explains alot.

I guess Marvel really regrets having to have sold those rights now that the Avengers are a BIG succes.

And I sort of feel sorry for WB for only being able to make good Batman movies.
As good as they are, these Batman movie would never be able to work in a Justice League setup, I mean Nolan has stated that the Penguin doesn't fit in with the realistic feel this Batman is going for, so how would aliens fit in with it?
How the hell would I know? I am just some random guy on the internet.

Seriously though, I guess they will have to reboot the existing ones or just come with a Batman movie that fits overall with the Justice League. I guess they could make it work if they said the the Nolan movies took place in an alternate universe where magic/aliens doesn't exist.

Maybe some one that know more about this can help me out on this?
No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Nolan has gone on record saying his Batman is essentially what he would be if he were to take place in our reality. Some liberties taken of course, but to be fair most of the more fantastic technology isn't that far off and with a billionaire funding it, it's not that hard to believe he could push it to be done here and now.

A reboot is going to be required, and if they are planning a JLA movie the first one in the series is likely to be Man of Steel. They may have tried it with Green Lantern but, well, make your own green turd joke.
I think it's already official that Batman will be rebooted after DKR, with Nolan producing, and a goal for a massive crossover movie in the future.