The Big Picture: Wrongs & Rights

[JSW]

The trailer for Spider Man was playing right before Avengers, and I got the feeling that the only reason they were doing it was to have Spiderman in 3D, but I guess your reason is much more logical. I wonder if it'd be worth it for Marvel to buy the licences back...
I've seen a lot of people talking about Antman, why do people want an Antman movie?
I'm hoping for a Dr. Strange movie, personally. Deadpool would be a lot of fun, but that could be hard.

Ant-Man (along with his sidekick/love interest The Wasp) was one of the founding members of The Avengers. He's also responsible for the creation of Ultron, one of the more well-known Marvel villains, and one that would be a great fit for a future Avengers movie.

That said, that doesn't necessarily mean that he needs his own movie; he could easily fulfil the more important parts of his role as a secondary character.

 

[Xanadu84]

That would be AWESOME! But... Movie executives, like music executives, aren't much for rational and creative behavior. They are more the petty and short-term vision type, that would rather not see the others make money when they can stop them from making it, even if it means letting an investment opportunity go, such as that one. It would just be too smart a move for them.

I also think the Spider-Man movie will not suck, but I think it will most certainly not be one of the better movies of the summer, the bars been set quite high. I like the creative team, but everything around that movie stinks.

I disagree, business people are usually pretty rational about money when you can show the numbers. You can't put a dollar value on customer loyalty, storytelling innovation or creativity, even if those things do make money. But they do understand things like branding, placement, and having a high profile. If we see that suddenly, DVDs of The Hulk are flying off the shelves, and the next Marvel movie seems to do better then predicted, then business types will suddenly see that getting their IP into the next installment is not just cool and customer friendly, it's a sound investment. Certainly more sound then some nebulous assumption that by charging heavily for use of one IP they may weaken a brand that might act as competition. Even if it doesn't turn the tables, it could potentially give Avengers a stronger bargining position, and enable them to borrow an IP for relatively cheap. You know, Sony asks for X dollars, it gets pointed out that this Marvel movie made 30 million more then they expected before factoring in The Avengers, Sony then asks for X - 30 Million. Down the road we might even see some confusion where one group pays to have their IP in Avengers, while another gets paid, albiet a lesser amount, just because no one really knows whats going on. And thats awesome, because the mess that is copywrite law can suck it. I don't know if it will happen, but it seems like the financial incentives are there.

I think Spiderman being less impressive is not so much a criticism of it as a reflection of how many awesome movies are in the pipe. Avengers is nearly the perfect movie, Batman will inevitably disappoint ridiculously high standards but nonetheless still be a fantastic movie, Prometheus is...yeah. Most great movies would in all likelyhood not stand up to that lineup.

 

[Nghtgnt]

I have been substantially less then impressed by everything I've seen or heard about the new Spider-Man movie, and now I know why.

Ah well, I still look forward to seeing it on basic cable.

 

[Dastardly]

Well, in theory, Iron Man is Hispanic, though Robert Downey Jr. doesn't exactly portray that.

Additionally, "Hispanic" is an ethnicity that includes white races. This is why many applications have the option of "White, Not Hispanic." People from, say, Spain are considered "white."

EDIT: I read over your post again, you really wouldn't want to see Luke Cage in a movie?!

Not really. He's not the best example of a minority superhero. He plays to too many shallow stereotypes of the "angry black man," and usually just comes across as thuggish. I blame bad writing. He feels to me like the old Shaft character from the blaxploitation era.

 

[GeorgW]

The trailer for Spider Man was playing right before Avengers, and I got the feeling that the only reason they were doing it was to have Spiderman in 3D, but I guess your reason is much more logical. I wonder if it'd be worth it for Marvel to buy the licences back...
I've seen a lot of people talking about Antman, why do people want an Antman movie?
I'm hoping for a Dr. Strange movie, personally. Deadpool would be a lot of fun, but that could be hard.

Ant-Man (along with his sidekick/love interest The Wasp) was one of the founding members of The Avengers. He's also responsible for the creation of Ultron, one of the more well-known Marvel villains, and one that would be a great fit for a future Avengers movie.

That said, that doesn't necessarily mean that he needs his own movie; he could easily fulfil the more important parts of his role as a secondary character.

Thanks for the info! I get why people would want that, but the way I see it, the movies are made to be a more streamlined version of the canon, and therefore I don't really want it to follow the comic books. I'm not saying I don't want Antman, I'm just saying I don't really want it either. After Avengers, I have complete faith in Marvel to do whatever the hell they want, and it'll be awesome. I am however worried that it'll get too complicated.

 

[search_rip]

I don't know how well a Luke Cage's movie could sell but how about a "Heroes for Hire" movie?

 

[Jegsimmons]

this is why im hopeing 20th century fox partners up with marvel and disney and the others just kind of flop or get canceled and go back to marvel.

the only reason i dont want this to happen with fox is because first class was really damn good, and deadpool is being made with the best crew you can possibly ask for and i dont want this shit to go down the drain for gods sake. the special effect director from the first x-men are directing (tim miller), the writers of ZOMBIELAND are behind it, they got robliefield as a consultant, and ryan rynolds is still the star and they confirmed that deadpool will break the fourth wall, be funny, and have sheer loyalty to the comic books, plus they may go for an R rating.

plus if sonys new spiderman is complete garbage (surely it will be) then maby marvel will hire sam raimi back and we can continue where we left off from spiderman 3 which im growing to like a little bit more each day. not perfect, but what works, works beyond belief.


however, i dont think justice league is very far off.
chris nolans batman wont be a part of it obviously because this is a different batman,
but he is how ever doing superman, which im sure will be good because chris nolan has failed to make a bad movie so far because he puts honest to god effort into scripts and movies.

plus we need a deathstroke, teen titans, and last but not least a LOBO movie.

 

[McMarbles]

I liked Green Lantern more than Batman beginnings 0-o

I liked it more than The Dark Knight.

Frankly, I just want Nolan off Batman so we can get a director who isn't ashamed to make super-hero movies.

 

[Gatx]

Well that explains alot.

I guess Marvel really regrets having to have sold those rights now that the Avengers are a BIG succes.

And I sort of feel sorry for WB for only being able to make good Batman movies.

As good as they are, these Batman movie would never be able to work in a Justice League setup, I mean Nolan has stated that the Penguin doesn't fit in with the realistic feel this Batman is going for, so how would aliens fit in with it?

How the hell would I know? I am just some random guy on the internet.

Seriously though, I guess they will have to reboot the existing ones or just come with a Batman movie that fits overall with the Justice League. I guess they could make it work if they said the the Nolan movies took place in an alternate universe where magic/aliens doesn't exist.

Maybe some one that know more about this can help me out on this?

No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Nolan has gone on record saying his Batman is essentially what he would be if he were to take place in our reality. Some liberties taken of course, but to be fair most of the more fantastic technology isn't that far off and with a billionaire funding it, it's not that hard to believe he could push it to be done here and now.

A reboot is going to be required, and if they are planning a JLA movie the first one in the series is likely to be Man of Steel. They may have tried it with Green Lantern but, well, make your own green turd joke.

I think it's already official that Batman will be rebooted after DKR, with Nolan producing, and a goal for a massive crossover movie in the future.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Funny, interesting, funteresting.

Love to see what kind of (potential) mess this could make.

 

[Saltyk]

The sad thing is, that as I understand it, those contracts allow them to keep the license as long as they make a movie. It doesn't have to be a serious effort. It can be cheaply made and laughably bad, only showing for a few weeks in one or two theaters with no fanfare and no video release. Contract fulfilled and they keep the license. They did that with Fantastic Four once, I know.

 

[Scrythe]

From what I heard, The Punisher has gone back to Marvel. Movies didn't make that much money (second one was okay though) and there are no plans for another one by other studios.

Not sure how or if they'll use him considering the deal with Disney is that the movies must be PG-13.

Incidentally, the second one was the only one that made a decent amount of profit [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0330793/business].

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I want a Wasp and/or Ant-man movie....for... unrelated reasons, actually.

But since the Avengers has come out and they're part of the Avengers I guess now I can use that to justify it... ;p

 

[Scars Unseen]

Disney has always been notorious for lobbying the government to increase the number of years that creative works stay out of the public domain. The reason IP and copyright laws have gotten the way they are is probably because of them.

This is a different set of IP and copyright laws than the one you're thinking of. This is an IP use law. It's not the same as the IP creation law.

If I created a character, that is my IP.
If you want to make a movie of my character, I can give you permission to use my IP, as long as you give me some money.

That's how this works.

You're right and he's right. Under current copyright law, you are correct, but that's only because the concept of copyright has been warped beyond measure. If it weren't for companies like Disney, this would all be a non-discussion because every character in every one of these movies would be in the public domain(maybe not Blade or Punisher... I think that Iron Age comic characters might still have been covered). The reason why so many movies and books deal with fairy tales and other pre-20th century literature is because those are the only preexisting works that can be used without licensing.

And it's not just that the license is needed; in some cases, the license is literally impossible to get. Over time, either multiple parties hold the rights to portions of a work(look at the trouble Beamdog had to go through to get the rights to make Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition), or in some cases no one is quite sure who owns the rights to a property. This can be a problem even in the short run, but over time it is almost a certainty unless the owner is a major company with well paid lawyers. This would be less of a problem under original copyright law since it lasted only 14 years with the opportunity for an extension of another 14 years. That's plenty of time for a person or company to profit from a work.

As broken as it patent law is, copyright law is far worse.

 

[Scars Unseen]

So all WB has to do is just come up with a Batman movie that fits with Justice League. Though the problem with that I guess is, Would people watch a non Nolan Batman movie? I guess with the right cast and directors and writers they could pull it off.

If they won't they just won't be watching Batman. Nolan said he's done with the character.

I think it's already official that Batman will be rebooted after DKR, with Nolan producing, and a goal for a massive crossover movie in the future.

Okay... I could be wrong. I'm guessing the character will still be completely different from the Batman of Nolan's trilogy if the idea is to make him suitable for a Justice League movie.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I liked Green Lantern more than Batman beginnings 0-o

I liked it more than The Dark Knight.

Frankly, I just want Nolan off Batman so we can get a director who isn't ashamed to make super-hero movies.

*think... ... think... ... think... DING!*
Yeah I kinda did to, I did like how they did the villains but the world and bat stuff felt flat.

While the green lantern had more consisnity to its more subdue pacing/style.

 

[notimeforlulz]

I think I asked for a video about this sort of thing, I don't believe bob did it for me... but still, thanks bob.

And now I'm going to watch this a couple more times till I understand some more of it.

 

[LadyRhian]

oops, double post...

 

[LadyRhian]

http://ideologyofmadness.spookyouthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/doctor-voodoo.jpg

Marvel already has a magic man who isn't white, i give you brother voodoo , who is a bit of a badass.

Because, yeah, he's not a flaming stereotype, and I don't even want to think about the number of people who cry out about a stereotypical depiction of voodoo... or outraged parents decrying a film that makes voodoo/Vodun/Vodou look cool- just look at the backlash from Harry Potter, and that kind of magic isn't even based on anything REAL. At least Doctor Strange isn't based on any kind of real magic (but as you can see, that doesn't mean some kind of backlash anyhow). I see the same kind of problems happening with ANY magic based hero, except maybe Meggan, Captain Britain's girlfriend/wife(?), who is some kind of faery. I think. Nah, mutant. Oh well, there goes that idea...

Snowbird from Alpha Flight? Puck (also from Alpha Flight)? The problem with so many heroes in the Marvel universe is that so many are their nation's version of (Fill in the Blank) . Captain Britain is English Captain America. Silver Samurai is Japan's Iron Man (more or less) and so on.

Maybe Luke Cage

There is no maybe on Luke Cage, they got the Old Spice guy for him.

Ha! I guess this means a Luke Cage/Iron Fist movie! Or.... ooh! Moon Knight!

 

[Vausch]

So, here's a question: Why can't the studios collaborate? Y'know, like they all go "Okay we'll make the movie and divide the gross 3 ways and split the budget 3 ways. Each of us invests 60 to 100 million, each of us is almost guaranteed to get that back and then some".

Oversimplification is now done, let's see how I'm out of touch!

Actually, there's not a whole lot of reason why they can't, other than general unwillingness. Sony doesn't want to have to submit to Marvel Studios' mandates regarding their continuity (and to share more of the profits in order to do so), and Marvel makes money whether or not they make the movie in-studio.

What we'll have to wait and see is whether or not Avengers has raised the expectations of movie-going audiences such that they won't want to see a Marvel movie that DOESN'T take place in the larger universe. In other words, if Amazing Spider-Man fails, we will either see Marvel Studios getting many of their rights back, or Sony and Fox will start actively collaborating.

Of course, there's a chance that Disney will discourage any such collaboration, seeing Sony and Fox as competitors.

So yeah. It's not just about money. It's about whether or not the studios can make MORE money through collaboration and whether or not that extra money is worth sharing IP's (something Disney has never been eager to do).

]

So, in other words, if the upcoming Marvel's don't do well the odds of them getting their universes shared would increase? Well, I'm pretty sure Spiderman is going to suck anyway so no loss there.

I know Disney's evil but you'd think the prospect of "share the risk and potential huge income or get a blame figure if things go wrong" wouldn't be something they could pass up.

Basically, yes. If ASM sucks and does poorly in the box office, it's plausible that Sony will scrap its plans for a sequel and try and sell the license back to Disney while it's still worth something.

And unfortunately, Disney could get a potential huge income from a collaborative work, or they could just get a small income from a failed work done by Fox or Sony (since Marvel still makes money from those movies) and then get the rights back and make an even bigger income from an in-house production that doesn't suck. The only thing they risk going the latter route is whether audiences will get sick of the properties themselves or just sick of studios other than Marvel making Marvel movies. They potentially stand to gain a lot more if they let the other studios fail. And if the other studios don't fail, they still make money off of it. There's not a lot of incentive for them to collaborate with competing studios that they already make money off of through the licensing deal. It's not so much evil as a rational business decision (though those two things are often hard to distinguish).

Yeah that's fair (I'd think like that too in that position). Honestly, I'm rooting for it to suck. It just doesn't look right as a whole. They're hinting that Peter's powers might not be a direct result of the spider but rather this was planned to happen to a degree, the driving force for him to actually become Spiderman is being virtually ignored, and the lizard and the costume still suck. See, my question is why are they making it another origin? Why not just make a Spiderman 2 esque movie, something where Peter is already Spidey and just drop us in with a good story? Everybody knows Spiderman's origin by now, and if they don't then odds are they could just ask a friend or the guy next to them, the origin is a part of pop culture through and through!

"Hey, why can he do that?"

-"radioactive spider bit him"

"Oh, neat!"