The Counterpoint

[PoweD]

somewhat relevant quote by some escapist forum user:


As much as girl gamers grouse about how terrible girl-targeted games are, the fact is that they sell better than games that actually respect women.

Beyond Good and Evil had a respectable female lead and a newbie-friendly learning curve and was generally ignored, despite a raving critical reception. Many combat-oriented games let players choose the genders of the characters in a non-exploitive fashion, so female gamers do have options to have a female lead.
Hell, the current trend of targetting fratboys with sex scenes and massive boobs is pretty recent. Through the '90s, games were youth-oriented... even games for more mature players seriously avoided sexuality. Things like DOA were the exception, not the rule.
Girls avoided games even then.
At some point you really shouldn't be surprised when the gaming industry gives up on you and says "screw it, let's just put in some naked ***** into the game - the people who would get offended aren't our customers anyways".
The only games that seem to qualify as girl-games are the ones that focus on social aspects with a fringe of hyper-tedious gameplay. When The Sims and Farmville are the things that break ground into the female gamer market - both known for little but drama and tedium - it's really no surprise that game developers don't have much interest in catering to you. I mean, it takes a miracle of timing and luck to get those games to take off (they cannot be promoted through traditional channels - they need to go entirely by word-of-mouth), and they're the kind of thing that would be repulsive to work on.

Really, the gaming industry extended the olive branch many, many times... and the results have been less than impressive. Even Nintendo's only real inroads into female gamers was with the WiiFit, which is the kind of approach that most of the industry doesn't even have as an option - Sony and MS don't have the kind of reputation to pull it off, and nobody else has the hardware ability. Despite their initial focus on being a family and party unit, Nintendo has obviously found that the biggest market was young children (of both genders). Those pictures of fashionable, hip women holding wiimotes and excitedly playing some non-depicted game? What game are they playing? Does anyone know?

They tried. They tried from every possible angle, and the only angle that seems to work is kinda repulsive (farmville).

You're really bringing up the "girls only play Sims/Farmville/WiiFit" bullshit? Really?

I'm sorry, but its mostly true.
If most of those "gamer girls" played AAA games, DOA wouldn't be sold or made the way it is right now.

You wanna cite any demographics for that?

Why should i?
Game sales show it themselves.

Because the burden of proof falls upon the accuser.

Read the bolded part carefully.

Yeah that's still a statement with no evidence for it whatsoever besides your own assertions. If you would like to provide proof of said game sales, that's a different matter.

Yes, so?
I don't have to pull some graphs or charts out of my ass to know that stuff like DOA sells.
Telling the publishers that people who are bothered by this stuff is a minority.

 

[him over there]

Actually, it's an excellent counterpoint. The entire implied premise of the original assertion (Women are depicted badly in media) is that a gender disparity exists. Pointing out that it also happens to male characters disproves the inequality along gender lines, at which point the only available argument is "well, it's bad that humans of both genders are depicted unrealistically" which is a banal and asinine assertion, because, well, fat ugly and stupid people of both genders don't entice audiences.

There's a reason the movie "Hackers" starred Angelina Jolie and Johnny Lee Miller, and not two eczema-riddled overweight basement dwellers. The reason why DOA girls are all jiggly, wasp-waisted waifs is the same reason why Kratos is 7 feet of steel-reinforced steroid.

I believe the crux of the argument presented in the comic is that the men aren't disparaged or harmed by the fire while the woman is. Might be over thinking it though.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Christ I've been making jabs at the way men defend there chauvinistic beliefs for ages and you don't hear me bragging about it...

OT: Damn, dat shit was funny....

 

[Jessta]

The reason why DOA girls are all jiggly, wasp-waisted waifs is the same reason why Kratos is 7 feet of steel-reinforced steroid.

No, actually, it really isn't.

The DOA chicks look like that because that's what guys (at least, the guys who play those games) want to look at.

Kratos is the way he is because that's what guys want to look like, and therefor play as.

I don't know a single person who would want to look like Kratos, this entire argument is incredibly sexist because it is essentially saying that the way guys and girls see games is inherently different and thus the way gender roles in games are treated on a moral basis should be equally different. The definition of equality is for two sides to be the same as each other, so trying to say that female roles and male roles shouldn't be treated the same in games is the defintion of a stance for inequality in gender roles.
this has been a problem with feminism for awhile now, they wanted to be treated equally so we started treating them equally, now they are expected to act as equals and they feel that they are inherently different enough that they should be exempt from dealing with the same shit we have to deal with.

And yeah, the reason is the same for both of those, the reason being neither of the things you said before but rather that this is how the artist who made them imagined them. when a girl makes a game, draws a picture, writes a book, or creates any other piece of art she is EQUALLY entitled to portray her fantasies as she see's them. Them's the breaks, equality means you have to suffer through others getting what they want sometimes even if it means you don't always get what you want.

 

[hooksashands]

The DOA chicks look like that because that's what guys (at least, the guys who play those games) want to look at.

Kratos is the way he is because that's what guys want to look like, and therefor play as.

Your first point revolves around a false dichotomy. Here's why.

A) It assumes the DOA games can be taken seriously. They can't. They're campy nonsense.
B) It assumes only guys want to play these games. (What about lesbians?)
C) It assumes a great majority of straight men (and lesbians) want stickgirls with blimp-sized breasts. They don't.

Similarly, here's why your second assertion is bogus:

A) It assumes men want to look like Kratos. Personally I have no desire to be a bulky, pale, ugly bald freak with ridiculous full-body tattoos no matter how strong or "badass" you think he is.
B) By the same reasoning, all women want to play as female characters with unrealistic or outright absurd body proportions. We already know this isn't true. Even if it was, it would only serve to further invalidate your argument.
C) Playing a perfectly sculpted homunculus in no way improves my self-confidence. I do not feel better about myself while looking at Dante's rockin' abs. If anything, I feel more insecure about my own fitness and body image.

 

[scw55]

I think both women and men are misrepresented.
Just women are significantly more misrepresented.

Given how I was bullied out of playing Netball for my school (when I was a young boy), it makes me shudder to think what shit women get.

 

[Deryl Owens]

What this comes down to is the desire for one of 2 things:
1. Don't cater to males. (Because females don't get catered to...right?)
2. Do cater to females. (Men too I guess.)
Those two things are mutually exclusive. Now with that out of the way:
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Blaming game makers for catering to their male audience and then the male audience for liking what is made for them is like blaming game makers for doing the same thing when they do it for females. It is a legitimate business practice females benefit from by also being catered to.
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That is why whats her face is wrong and our negative reaction to her (minus the threats) is right.
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You want games that dont cater to anyone? Be careful, you might just get that wish.
You want games that do cater? Get ready for something you'll actually like.
The male gamers wanted fair all along not whats her face, she wants superiority not equality. Noone is forcing you to buy what you do not like. Buy what you do like and let other people do the same. If youre not buying what you do like dont punish innocent game makers or their customers for your failure.