The Death of Mario

Happiness Assassin

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Oct 11, 2012
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I don't know if Mario if is "dead" per se, but I do know one thing: he will always be used to make games. He is the most iconic character in all of video games. He is responsible in part for the popularity of video games today and is instantly recognizable to even those who have never played a game. Slapping his face on anything and it is guaranteed to make money. Nintendo could release Mario brand condoms and they would sell.
 

The White Hunter

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Oct 19, 2011
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scorptatious said:
SkarKrow said:
Moth_Monk said:
I don't understand why people think that Sonic is in a worse situation than Mario. At least Sonic still is a character...
I keep telling people on this site that Colours and Generations are fantastic games but they just don't listen.
Generations was pretty much the first Sonic games I've played since 06, and it was fantastic. Glad to see the blue blur is back on his feet for now.

OT: Meh, I don't really care that much about Mario anymore. I still look back at games like 64 and Paper Mario with fond memories, but I've kinda moved on from him now.
My only gripes were a lack of variety in the levels and shit bosses. Hopefully the next Sonic game will be of the same extremely high standard.

But unlike generations I hope it doesn't melt my CPU.
 

SiskoBlue

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Aug 11, 2010
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The point about corporations basically neutering their icons has bothered me for years. "The character will remain preserved forever in the state they are currently in, the prized possession of a corporate hive mind no longer concerned about emotion or growth but about ensuring that nothing associated with them is portrayed in anything that could be interpreted as a negative light"

Which is why I've never been interested in Mickey Mouse since Phantasia (the last time he actually did somehthing 'naughty' as far as I'm aware).

Conflict and character flaws are not the only source of energy in fiction but they're pretty bloody important. This is why I've always preferred Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny to Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. Admittedly Donald Duck is flawed but frankly he's just not that funny. As Chuck Jones once put it "Bugs Bunny is what we'd like to be, clever, an answer for everything and always wins. What we actually are is Daffy Duck". So nowadays we have heros that are flawless, and it's the context of a situation that brings the conflict and therefore the drama.

It's hard to put my finger on but I've never been interested in Mickey Mouse, Superman, or Mario (admittedly as I don't have an interest in them I'm completely unaware if anyone ever HAS given them flaws and made them more interesting. I think Superman got some personality injected in the comics at times but what I'm referring to is the broader, public persona we get. I'm sure if you're a fan you've found very interesting personalities in these characters but I put it to you, you're probably projecting you're own interesting self on to them, I've never seen the do anything remotely interesting except when Superman loses it in the first film to save Margot Kidder - who went completely mental in later years, not surprising if you go back and watch her act).

They're all born heroes with no flaws and therefore to me, the most boring fuckers in the entire world. Give me Daffy Duck's and Wiley Coyotes sisyphean role of always being the loser. Give me Batman's fucked up agenda with his threadbare moral line. Give me Guybrush Threpwood's incompetence, or GlaDos' megalomania. Characters like Mario, Link, Master Chief, and even Gordon Freeman (even though HL2 is my favourite game) are dull automaton's. The only reason people like them is because they like the world those characters inhabit, it's got nothing to do with their personality, because they don't have one.
 

Abomination

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I never viewed Mario as a character, he was just an avatar who wore red overalls, had a silly moustache and couldn't even speak Italian.
 

Elois

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
But when was the last time Mickey Mouse actually did anything?




He has been quite the badass in the kingdom hearts games for one... >_>

Where he was a character that did stuff, don't lump him in with mario. :O
 

Elijah Newton

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Happiness Assassin said:
Nintendo could release Mario brand condoms and they would sell.
I'll be as oblique about this as I can but if I was a betting man I'd put my money on condoms with the red mushroom on them as a stronger seller. 'Cos you know. *ahem* Mushroom. Growth.
 

Darmy647

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Sep 28, 2012
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I havent really stopped enjoying any mario game. Sorry guys :(. I guess im a sucker for platforming titles.
 

itsmeyouidiot

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Dec 22, 2008
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So why exactly does Mario NEED to innovate? How exactly do you improve upon perfection?

I do like it when something fresh comes along, but I won't like Mario any less for being more or less the same.

Hell, the Mario series' "stagnation" is actually part of the reason why I like it so much. Other games experiment with new ideas, sometimes to the point where they bear little resemblance to what they once were.

But while other series need to change to improve their overall quality, Mario games are pretty much perfect as-is, so they don't need to delve into dangerous unexplored territory. Whereas with other games I might not anticipate how much fun or lack thereof I might have, with Mario I know that I'm going to like the game no matter what.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Is it time to retire Nintendo's favored mascot?
Maybe just relegate him to mascot-only status? Isn't that the analogy you went for in the first place? He's still laying bricks, albeit shoddily.

He probably should have been retired years ago, but he still sells things.

There's no such thing as dignity for a fictitious character anyway.
 

retrochimp

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Dec 13, 2008
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Clearly Mario is in need of a re-contextualization. Some poignant and clever take on the illusory and superficially saccharine state of his world. Something like "Duke Nukem Forever." Not the shitty one that got released here. The fucking stellar genre-bending game that was released in the strange mirror universe where Yahtzee is a good guy who doesn't have a goatee...
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Ugh... not sure. I do agree that Mario Galaxy 2 was one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo has ever made. All of the 3D Mario Games were fundamentally different. Mario Sunshine was not like Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy was unlike Mario Sunshine. Following up with Mario Galaxy 2 was a terrible idea. But i'm still not gonna lose hope until it turns out that the first 3D Mario game for the Wii U is gonna be called "Super Mario Galaxy 3"
 

itsmeyouidiot

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PsychedelicDiamond said:
Ugh... not sure. I do agree that Mario Galaxy 2 was one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo has ever made. All of the 3D Mario Games were fundamentally different. Mario Sunshine was not like Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy was unlike Mario Sunshine. Following up with Mario Galaxy 2 was a terrible idea. But i'm still not gonna lose hope until it turns out that the first 3D Mario game for the Wii U is gonna be called "Super Mario Galaxy 3"
Mario Galaxy was awesome, and therefore Mario Galaxy 2 was awesome. Your argument is invalid.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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itsmeyouidiot said:
PsychedelicDiamond said:
Ugh... not sure. I do agree that Mario Galaxy 2 was one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo has ever made. All of the 3D Mario Games were fundamentally different. Mario Sunshine was not like Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy was unlike Mario Sunshine. Following up with Mario Galaxy 2 was a terrible idea. But i'm still not gonna lose hope until it turns out that the first 3D Mario game for the Wii U is gonna be called "Super Mario Galaxy 3"
Mario Galaxy was awesome, and therefore Mario Galaxy 2 was awesome. Your argument is invalid.
Blame it on nostalgia but i kinda prefer Sunshine. I liked the leveldesign more.
 

GoddyofAus

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Aug 3, 2010
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I have to agree with Yahtzee here. The Mario franchise is spluttering to a complete halt and Nintendo are too scared shitless about screwing the pooch to do anything about it.
 

The White Hunter

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Oct 19, 2011
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scorptatious said:
SkarKrow said:
Really? I loved the bosses in Generations. Well, except the final one anyway.
They're not great, not awful, but not great. I hate the last boss, I hate the giant faceless monster approach and I'd much rather have had a giant robot fight against both Robotniks. Otherwise I just didn't really enjoy them, I prefer the original fights in almost every instance but for Metal Sonic, Shadow and Egg Dragoon. Though I did quite like Silvers fight even though it pissed me off.

I found the Death Egg robot to be annoying and kind of dull, and Perfect Chaos is kinda boring, but at least it was different I guess. They were better than the ferris wheel bosses in Colours, but otherwise they're not the best the series has had.

Still enjoyable though, except on the 3DS version where every boss I've faced thus far apart from Big Arm has been kind of boring or tedious or outright cheap.
 

TheProfessor234

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Aug 20, 2010
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Mario either needs to take a break for at least a decade or at least get some other different story.

Have it start off where Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are going through the ropes, throw in some huge problem that they need to overcome together that will destroy them all if they don't, and add character arcs.


In my opinion, things are just starting to stagnate.
 

Bindal

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TheProfessor234 said:
Have it start off where Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are going through the ropes, throw in some huge problem that they need to overcome together that will destroy them all if they don't, and add character arcs.
Isn't that roughly the summary of the Mario RPG for the SNES, minus Luigi? Or a similar one with Bowsers Inside Story?