The Death of Mario

[ex275w]

I think the problem is that Nintendo really screwed up this last year/2 years by really giving us way too many Mario games (around 5), which I still like, mind you, but it's annoying.

They made 3 platforming games (3D Land, NSMB2, and NSMBU) which are basically the same game, which are the same game that was Super Mario Bros 3.
They made Mario Kart 7 and Paper Mario: SS.

The problems is that all these games really stayed on the comfort zone, especially Paper Mario, what with the Forest, Desert, Ice, Fire world, which rarely had those settings.

-Nintendo needs to start changing elements in the games, ditch the themed worlds, or at least combine them, a desert/ice world hybrid, a forest that's on fire, anything.

Make a different platforming experience from the previous game, make the game more like Super Meat boy (short and hard stages) or those treasure stages from Rayman Origins. (Getting to a goal really fast)

Reintroduce elements from the other games, a branching world map, other characters that play differently (Like Mario 2), the old suits from Mario 3. (Hammer and Frog suit)

Make new enemies.

Make shooting stages a la Mario Land 2.

Create a new aesthetic, shit, Mario 2 has a tropical aesthetic, Mario 3 has a theater/play aesthetic, World is set in a Dinosaur Land, 64 has the paintings, Galaxy has the space aesthetic.

Right now, what Jim said is true, Nintendo needs to reformulate Mario, the next New Super Mario Bros has a chance of failing. Rayman and Meat really showed me that platforming isn't dead.

 

[ex275w]

Mario either needs to take a break for at least a decade or at least get some other different story.

Have it start off where Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser are going through the ropes, throw in some huge problem that they need to overcome together that will destroy them all if they don't, and add character arcs.


In my opinion, things are just starting to stagnate.

I would say a decade is excessive, Mario has at least 4/5 franchises to take care of, people went apeshit when a new Megaman game wasn't made for 2010, now it's 2 years and people are angrier than ever, the street fighter game didn't really work out.

Nintendo just needs to make the new 3D Mario and a new Mario & Luigi, then space out each release by 3/4 years at the end of the console or at the start of the new one.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I completely agree with the article.
Mario as a "character" is "dead", and has been for far longer than Mario Galaxy 1 as far as I'm concerned. (just because Nintendo put the game in space did not convince me I wasn't playing most of Mario 64 again)

Yes, his games are obviously popular enough to remain profitable, as is the merchandise but I cannot for the life of me find him to be spearheading anything significant beyond that. Nor do I take ANY interest in games starring Mario anymore.

In fact, I'd take that argument and apply more broadly to Nintendo as a whole. They own a stable of iconic characters and franchises, but what are they really doing? Nothing. They're just running in place (apart from maybe Kirby..maybe).

Metroid: Other M was the last time any of those franchises moved significantly beyond its familiar ground.
(it was pretty awful, but it wasn't just another retread of Super Metroid or Metroid Prime with a new gimmick tacked on)

It just feels like they have nothing left to offer beyond nostalgia.
(Pokemon is the same way, though at least Pokemon has a very deep, rich competitive metagame. Even if the regular game is way way too easy and boring as balls now)

 

[Maerx]

Well, it's been a while since I felt that joy and hype of hearing/reading about a new Mario game. And since I'm one of those beasts that is not into 2D Mario games, the recent releases mean nothing to me.

On a side note; This video is pretty much says what I've been thinking about the NSMB games since the release of NSMB Wii.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5jwoWJVcws

 

[Dree]

I would love another Mario game with the depth of "Super Mario 64" for the wii.

 

[Farther than stars]

"Mario is a cultural zombie." Yeah, that'll do for your intellectually flammable debate.
The gripe I have, however, is that Mickey Mouse is supposed to represent American culture. Really? Mickey Mouse more so than McDonald's? I mean, let's face it: somewhere out there in the world (let's say India) is a kid who has no idea about Mickey Mouse, Disney and all the rest of it, but he sure as hell knows that he can walk down the road and get a McCurry any night of the week.

 

[SiskoBlue]

Give me bland characters over bad characters any day. I actually prefer Link and Mario to any Mass Effect character. Either they do it well like Portal, or keep it bland because the main reason I play games is for the gameplay and challenge.

I know what you mean, but I think we kind of have to suffer through bad characters to get good ones. Think of early films. The acting seems really hammy, nothing like real life, and way over the top at times. Acting is a craft that's been refined over and over until you get your Marlon Brandos, Jack Nickolson's. The reason Charlie Chaplin was so popular was because he could act well.

Games, relatively speaking, are still in their infancy. They are also not straight forward art. Games can be artistic, but as a recent article made me realise, the essence of a game is it's rules and engagement. Or to put it another way, chess is chess. You can play it with rocks, or have the most beautiful ornate board with moving models, that are clearly artistically designed. But it's still chess.

The hard part is that a great game can tell a story, but you can also have a great game that has zero story. I don't think we've figured out how to balance that fact in games.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I'd like to get worked up over this, but I really can't muster the energy. Mario was always an object rather than a person to me. His character development in all the games I've played (including SMRPG) has been nil. He seems to be motivated by rescuing the princess which is ultimately for... cake? (I believe there's a song expanding on cake as a metaphor).

So Mario is merely a vessel of entertainment for me. I never put myself in his shoes, I just bounced him around the colorful screens until the game was done. This notion is reinforced for me in that after SNES, or even before if you count games like Mario Kart, he has none of the same abilities. His one cornerstone that usually stays with him is the ability to jump higher than normal. But whereas Batman recognizably has his nice car and gadget belt and costume and stealth, Mario's all over the place.

So is he dead? Does this translate into something along the lines of 'Why aren't there more original Mario games, rawr'? It's obvious Mario can't go anywhere because Nintendo has shown by their releases over the years that they cannot create any more recognizable characters. The stable of SSB is about it: Samus, Link, Kirby, Mario, Donkey Kong, (Star Fox, Pikachu). Granted the creativity behind recent Mario releases hasn't been great, but I think it very likely they'll find some new way to adventure around with him in the future. For someone like Mario practicality is never a barrier -- the fact that he's been to space will not deter his next big feature from being him exploring a front lawn or something. One of his most popular games, Mario 64, was simply him messing around a variety of different landscapes/obstacle courses.

 

[Callate]

It's weird to think of a mushroom-eating Italian plumber who fights turtles becoming irrelevant; it kind of makes one cock one's head and go, "How did this ever become relevant in the first place?"

But I suppose the truth is that, recognizable as Mario became, the popularity of his franchise had more to do with the innovation and fun of his games than his mustache or suspenders. People flocked to Mario, sure- because they came to expect a certain experience when they were spending time with the plumber.

Which to me raises the question if the problem is with Mario himself, per se, or one more manifestation of either the timidity having a franchise you count on for your meal ticket can bring on (one more version of "sequelitis"), or perhaps even that it's become increasingly difficult to wring anything genuinely novel out of the genre we used to call "platformers".

 

[General Vagueness]

Actually Mickey Mouse has been in some new kids' shows on the Disney Channel the last few years.

the strange mirror universe where Yahtzee is a good guy who doesn't have a goatee...

mind = blown

 

[Vladdie93]

As of right now, Mario is in a really bad position. He's a character that people can place in many different positions (plumber, street cleaner, galaxy hopper), but is constantly being pushed into the same tiny window of sequels and remakes of the same game.
I played through New Super Mario Bros. U in less than a weekend, and I felt that it was one of the most unentertaining games I've ever played. It was trying to be exactly like it's already weak predecessors, where it would try to give you a million and one different concepts, so that each and every level was filled with a different way of playing. The problem with that is that the game then feels the need to teach everyone how to play every different thing, so the difficulty can't progress nearly as high as something like the original Super Mario Bros.
I'm getting off track...
Mario's problem is that he's constantly being thrown into the exact same games that don't offer any challenge, throw in no bits of originality or charm, and are formed in typically either three niches that Nintendo can't seem to escape; Super Mario, New Super Mario, or obligatory kart and party games.
Now, it's been shown that Nintendo can make original, witty, and entertaining games (Super Mario 64, Paper Mario, Mario Superstar Saga, Super Mario Sunshine), and are able to make a design for side games where you do nothing but play a board game or go go-carting (Mario Party and Kart are fun).
But, Nintendo keeps basing the success of its future mario games on the sequels of all of these games, and recently nothing original or unique has been coming out of their doors. All of their recent releases (and even premiere releases for their new system) have all been just "sequels" (I hate to say sequel because that would require the game to be different somehow). If they don't want their mascot to fall under and become just that creepy uncle we used to like, they need to come up with an original game that is as charming and unique as some of the past games were.

 

[Icehearted]

I don't understand why people think that Sonic is in a worse situation than Mario. At least Sonic still is a character...

I keep telling people on this site that Colours and Generations are fantastic games but they just don't listen.

I remember when it started, I still have my Sega CD game, I even remember the big brouhaha over stacking cartridges.

Now all I see are chilli dogs, and my youthful memories reduces to a bland purple-flavored ooze.

 

[danon]

The death of mario will be when nintendo believes they won't get tons of cash when they put him in games.

 

[nykirnsu]

I still want to see a Mario game with a proper plot and characters. That would be an interesting new direction.

 

[The White Hunter]

I don't understand why people think that Sonic is in a worse situation than Mario. At least Sonic still is a character...

I keep telling people on this site that Colours and Generations are fantastic games but they just don't listen.

I remember when it started, I still have my Sega CD game, I even remember the big brouhaha over stacking cartridges.

Now all I see are chilli dogs, and my youthful memories reduces to a bland purple-flavored ooze.

Never had a Sega CD when I was a kid, couldn't afford that kind of luxury, our Mega Drive was given away to us.

I like the chilli dogs, it's a nice nod to other things. I wish they'd take more from STC though, Vector is the brains of the Chaotix crew damn it not the muscle > >

 

[Strazdas]

It was time to retire mario.... 10 years ago. Its like a guest that has outstayed its welcome and tries to bribe you to stay when you start pushing him out of the door. no, scrap that, he does nto try to bribe, he hits you on the head so you would not push him out.

 

[DarthSka]

As long as the games starring Mario keep being fun, I see no reason to be rid of him. Opinions differ on this, but I still enjoy many of them.

 

[JenSeven]

Why am I reading this out loud in my head in Moviebob's Boston accent?
Maybe irony?
No idea, but it sure is fun.

 

[FoolKiller]

Interesting points by Yahtzee, but it seems that the only alternative to what's going on with Mario is to look at what happened to Sonic. And I doubt anyone wants to wind up in that situation.

Exactly... this is the problem. People criticize Sonic for continuing to churn out crap but then when the creators don't have anything new to give out they are accused of being protective of the IP. They can't seem to win this time.