The Downfall of Japanese Games?

[Zippy1313]

It is mostly western developers who are going bankrupt right now, I am hoping companies like Capcom and Square-enix can bring gaming back to what it was and make sure we have no more garbage like Gears and Halo. Don't get me wrong, I love Bethesda and Valve, but they are both two great companies swimming in a sea of mediocre western title from other companies.

 

[SeniorDingDong]

For me, the problem is, ironicly, that many japanese games are so fucking japanese ! Playing thirteen years old manga girls with foxy ears in pedophilic skin tight girlshool "armor" that can easily dual-wield 3 meters long swords in john-wooish overstyled emo action cutszenes totaly alienates me. (that was some overdramatisation, but I hope you get the point...)

 

[xMacx]

See #8 on Gamasutra's top 20 trends for 2008 list. and the linked interview in the article. There's a decent amount of people out there who share some of the TS's opinions.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3884/gamasutras_top_20_trends_of_2008.php?page=4

 

[Cadren]

I'm sure this statement will be flamed. I don't care. This is my opinion. Square-Enix. Formerly know as Squaresoft. In their better days. They can't stop beating the VERY DEAD Final Fantasy horse to make anything that is any good these days. Square hasn't put out a great game in about ten years. The best stuff they've put out in recent years are remakes of their classics for the DS and PSP. They made a lot of mistakes with regards to prioritizing what games to make, in my opinion. Final Fantasy was ALWAYS too important to be put on hold to give any time or money to something that might end up being better. Xenogears, FF Tactics, and Chrono Trigger are all games that had great potential but got minimal attention in favor of the latest FF to have an over convoluted, ridiculous storyline played out by a cast of feminine emo boys and their slutty girlfriends. Even Kingdom Hearts, a decent series with a lot of potential hasn't seen a full console release in over 3 years now with nothing new in site (I'm not talking about hand held stuff).

I've been flamed many times for voicing this opinion, but here goes: SquareEnix needs to hire new writers and designers. They need to try something different, something other than "boy meets girl, saves world". Back in the day, they were known for breaking trends: Squaresoft made playing RPGs cool back when FFVII came out, and Enix was always that underappreciated little company that made the most awesome games, like the Dragon Warrior and Star Ocean series. I'd like for once to play a SquareEnix game where the hero isn't some generic sword wielding prettyboy who could be mistaken for the leading lady.

TL;DR: SquareEnix has fallen into a rut, needs way out

I totally agree. Square and JRPGs were big in the West because they were the most story oriented of genres, but now the stories suck. Square-Enix hasn't adapted their stories for an older demographic and sticks with the same stories it has for years. When most gamers were kids, the care free 'save the world' stories were easier to relate to, but doing the same thing now is just overdone. An older demographic wants more diverse moral questions in games, more emotional development of characters and less good guy meets bad guy (who some times is just misunderstood).

I'd really like Square to make a JRPG with a realistic sense of politics or games where they world doesn't end up supporting you and some armies that continue to fight for reasons that aren't demon possession or something similar.

 

[Rezfon]

I personally feel FFX was the last good final fantasy. Every other game made after that was made by Square-enix instead of Squaresoft who look to ressurect the old games and create unfun spin-offs. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest (from Enix) were both great RPG series, but try combining the two and you get some mutant bi-product that nobody wants. Also considering that the original creators and a lot of the original team for Final Fantasy along with Nobuo Uematsu left to create Mistwalker games after they released the aweful spirits within and Enix then merged afterwards, you can see a pattern in the quality of games.

 

[SpiritMacardi]

My own opinion on these:

I'm still for Nintendo myself. They've never really been big on releasing big name titles frequently, but when they do they usually keep me busy for a while.

Squenix definitely likes to beat dead horses, though each time they do they at least use a different blunt object. Unless it's Dragon Quest, in which case the gameplay is still as bland as it was on the NES.

Seriously Sega, hand Sonic over to BioWare, rename Sonic Team to Phantasy Star Team (since it's all they know how to do), then get to work on making Skies of Arcadia 2.

Sony, I know you want to unify everything under your media, but your media is too damn expensive. Let's see, do I want a 1 GB memory stick for $40 or a 3 GB SD card for $19?

And Capcom, Megaman is dead. Stop trying to reboot it with lame duck games like Star Force. Also, hire back Clover Studios so that you can make some good, original games again instead of cut and paste zombie shooters.

 

[Eiseman]

I'd really like Square to make a JRPG with a realistic sense of politics or games where they world doesn't end up supporting you and some armies that continue to fight for reasons that aren't demon possession or something similar.

They did that in FFXII. And yeah, it was very refreshing to end up fighting to save your country instead of the whole damn planet. And yet the game brought on more haters than lovers. And guess what their number one complaint was?

Ungrateful hacks. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase]

 

[Sethran]

This is kind of a pointless thread...

This is exactly the same thing as when people say "PC Gaming is dead." -- So long as there is a Japan, Japanese games aren't going anywhere.

The thing you fail to realize is-- Japanese games are meant for Japanese people. They're released globally because they can make money off the niche gamers for what is essentially a ten cent patch [Translation] to a game they've already made a shitload on in their native country. Just because you particularly don't like it, and prefer western developed RPGs [Which is natural considering you're from a western country], doesn't mean they're 'going away' or 'sucking more'. You've just changed your particular tastes.

Personally, I still love JRPGs and japanese-originating games, and I'll probably continue to like them more than most western games I play, because I like games with great storyline -- Not OK story and good gameplay, or great gameplay and a matching story, I like great story period. And when you compare a culture with a story telling society centuries old to an industrial instant gratification culture, story-wise the former will always win.

And in all honesty, if you can't appreciate a JRPG's story because it's 'Unrealistic' and then go play Gears of War and mow down mutated insects from the bowels of the earth for a half hour, then you sir are a hypocritical prick. It's not that you don't like the 'unrealistic' story, it's that you don't like the fantasy setting.

 

[Untamed Waters]

Damn, I was hoping to be inb4 the obligatory "FFVII was the last great offering" praise, but alas, I had stuff to do today.
Yes, Squeenix has been on the downhill trot, but so has every thing in video games. It's all about the glitzy glam of the visuals than about the story. My point though, is that while I've watched Samus, Mario, Link, Sonic, and Megaman slip into (and in many cases, well beyond) mediocrity, the one thing I can stand tall and proud to exclaim is that the Final Fantasy franchise is still alive.
The average video gamer will stand firm on the belief that FFVII was the last thing Square made of any signifigance, but the hardcore RPGer in me will argue that among RPG's, the FF series is a safe bet, nay, a sure thing when it comes to RPG greatness. I'll admit there were duds in the mix; specifically 8 and 9, but that's completely forgiveable considering the FF series has taken things from scratch each and every time, aside from some cameos. No two games act/look/play alike. Even the one direct "sequel" in the series, FFX-2, stands alone in gameplay style and character maturation. Sure beats the old resident evil/god of war/mario copy paste you get with every new title.
Please don't jump on the "Final Fantasy died after FFVII" bandwagon without at least having played the games!

There's a lot of Hate on FF8, but why? It's easily got some of the best story telling, and you can't tell me that there weren't times when you could feel your heart strings being tugged by Squall and Riona.

I don't think that Final Fantasy died after FFVII. I think it died when FFXI came out and while I liked FFT and FFVIII, (I actually think FFT was better then FFVII.) FFVIII was when the franchise started to drop off and FFIX was when it went into a full blown coma. FFXII was not enough to save the franchise from it's awful attempt at the MMO market. So unless FFXIII is freaking ambrosia, I'm gonna declare the series done.

 

[Untamed Waters]

I'd really like Square to make a JRPG with a realistic sense of politics or games where they world doesn't end up supporting you and some armies that continue to fight for reasons that aren't demon possession or something similar.

They did that in FFXII. And yeah, it was very refreshing to end up fighting to save your country instead of the whole damn planet. And yet the game brought on more haters than lovers. And guess what their number one complaint was?


Ungrateful hacks. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase]

It's because the story was INSANELY hard to follow. I found myself talking to characters or landing in places and I wondered why I was there. Not to mention it was easy. (Although I will openly admit, I enjoyed the combat system.)

 

[Hevoo]

Westerns like western games.... nuff said

Western games are much more open ended, and have less cut scenes then Eastern games. Eastern games are very story driven, and make you do things. As with western games we can do what we want when we want, GTA, Fallout, etc, etc. Its all based on our culture and what each likes more, Westerns like the freedom to do what they wanted because that's what we can do in our real lives. As with Easterns, they like respecting authority more, and being told what to do, or how to do it. Its all about the culture; that's why with the rise of western gaming companies, the Japanese gaming companies lost most of there market share over in the west in the late 90s. The Japanese dont understand our culture therefore have a hard time making games that represent that, as with western game companies have the same problems, with the Japanese culture.
That's my idea on why the Japanese game companies seems to fail over here.

 

[geldonyetich]

Thus, nationality clearly matters in the creation of a game.

That being said, it's about time Japanese games died.

Man, I wouldn't make a "nationality matters here, therefore this nationality must stop" argument. One might mistake me for racist.

You're basically saying, "every person in that country who does this should knock it off!"

 

[geldonyetich]

Maybe it's just a harmless trend rather than a sign of declining quality?

Yes, another harmless trend, like Guro [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ero_guro].

Kidding.

Anywho, this is a really silly thread. It's like saying, "Hey, Electronic Arts keeps re-releasing that darn Madden series, they have no originality. Therefore, all American game developers must stop making games." No, you tit, one development group's bad decision does not reflect upon the entire body of a nation throughout the perpetuity of time.

I don't care if 95% of the companies in that nation are making bad games, people are individuals, and you should respect them as such. Genius oft stems from the rare individual, not from the people when considered as a mass, and denying the rare genius the opportunity to create something great is a foolish move, at best.

Besides, anyone who looks at the Final Fantasy series as "milking the franchise" just because there's 12 of them is not paying attention to the fundamental fact that Squaresoft pretty much reinvents the game, throwing out all the old characters and implementing a whole new RPG mechanic, nearly every game. (With the rare exception such as X-2 and XII hashing out the land of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.) You might not like all the feminine emo-boys, but that's just a matter of style, stop spitting in their artists' eyes just because you disagree with their concepts of beauty, you philistine.

 

[AyaReiko]

The state of the Japanese game scene is misleading. While arguably the quality of games made over there that are brought over here is declining a bit, the fact remains that very, very few games made over there are actually brought over here.

Plus the XBox (and XBox360) can barely get a foothold over there. However, it took only one game to put XBox Live on the map in Japan, Idolm@aster. Of course, that game has never been released anywhere outside of Japan.

On the flipside, despite having a userbase larger than many medium sized countries, WoW has never been released in Japan.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

I'd really like Square to make a JRPG with a realistic sense of politics or games where they world doesn't end up supporting you and some armies that continue to fight for reasons that aren't demon possession or something similar.

They did that in FFXII. And yeah, it was very refreshing to end up fighting to save your country instead of the whole damn planet. And yet the game brought on more haters than lovers. And guess what their number one complaint was?

Ungrateful hacks. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase]

Something to do with the battle system (well, for me and everyone else I know). It plays a bit like an MMO, where you wander around and see loads of creatures running around, problem is, half the time, you have no idea whether they're above your level or not, or if they're aggro, and with no saving on the overland map ('far as I know), you're left with "Oops, too strong, start again loser lol".

 

[Fightgarr]

Two words: Team Ico.

 

[Joeshie]

Let me break it to you how it is.

1) The best companies back in the NES/SNES days were all Japanese because a large majority of good western studios were focused on the PC, not console. Bullfrog, Westwood, Bethesda, Bioware, Valve, Epic, id Software, and so many more were completely focused on the PC in the early years, so if you only gamed on a console, it seemed like Western developers couldn't put out a good game.

2) We are seeing more of the top-tier Western developers finally move to consoles.

3) Japanese developers seem to be in this rut of only releasing sequels. I know many of you will point to the endless Madden sequels, but for every No More Heroes that gets released we get a Dead Space or a Mass Effect or a Portal or a Mirror's Edge. Now, there isn't anything wrong with sequals, but when you get Capcom, Nintendo, and Squenix pretty much shooting out as many Megaman and Final Fantasy offshoots as they possibly can, it gets pretty annoying.

4) Japan isn't the mecha of video games anymore. It was for a brief time, but now the closest place to a mecha for video games is back in the USA. Even then, we are seeing tons of countries all over the world step up their video game production, particularly in Western Europe.

Japan does still release great games and they are second only to the USA in terms of producing those great games, but their influence has certainly faded.