The Elder Scrolls Future

[Jynthor]

I do wonder how they'll handle the civil war in the next instalment. I do hope they won't pull a Warp in the West. It was a cheap way to make every ending valid, and while they have handled it well enough I really don't wish to see it happen again.

I doubt Bethesda will use a save import feature, so either you will be in a place completely disconnected from the war, or they'll be very, very vague about it. Or maybe they'll pull a WitW anyway, we'll just have to wait and see.

As for the location, I doubt they'd set the new game in a place that is too alien(Black March, Summerset Isle, Elsewyr etc) I guess Hammerfell is possible and High Rock as well. I mean, just because it was in a game ages ago doesn't mean it can't be used as the new setting.

Whatever will they replace the Dragon Shouts with though?

 

[doomspore98]

The next TES will probably be on the next wave of consoles. So a question we have to ask is, why not do multiple countries? Imagine how amazing daggerfall would be with better than current gen graphics. I love the idea of Dwemer coming back and that mixed with more of the aldmeri dominion sounds amazing. All I want to do is play in multiple countries and play with all of the races

 

[SajuukKhar]

Sorry Nerevar went missing under shady circumstances on an expedition to akivir, which means he probably won't show up in the series again.
Validation of everything means invalidation because the choice you made doesn't mean anything because everything happened. The only games that truly validate choice are ones that actually import things from previous games like Mass Effect 2 and to some extent 3. In the ES series you can do all sorts of crap that doesn't translate into the newer games.

Spoiler

Also Sheo mentions that Martin Septim is his favorite emporer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48mckXg5NA&feature=related about 1:15

Disappearing after a trip to Akavir =/= dead. Furthermore the Nerevar going to Akavir was a RUMOR, just like how people thought Vivec was taken by the Daedra, when he wasn't. In reality Nerevar achieved CHIM most likely.
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Actually in the ES series every single quest is assumed to be done, though not necessarily by you. Everything you do is validated because they will never tell you your wrong. You chose to support X faction in Daggerfall? you are correct. Did you ONLY do the mages guild? Did you do all the guilds? did you do this sidequest? You can never be wrong.

furthermore most things you do SHOULDN'T transfer into new games, Mass Effect handles it very poorly by treating every piss you take on the sidewalk as some giant world changing event, which is terribly unrealistic.
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So what if Sheogorath like Martin? I'm sure Dagon the Razor liked Queen Potema for being evil and destructive.

Liking a specific Emperor =/= Sheogorath being the CoC.

 

[Jynthor]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is a difference between Nerevar and the Nerevarine.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is a difference between Nerevar and the Nerevarine.

The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar.

You can call The Nerevarine by both names since they are the same person.

 

[Jynthor]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure there is a difference between Nerevar and the Nerevarine.

The Nerevarine is the reincarnation of Nerevar.

You can call The Nerevarine by both names since they are the same person.

Yet the Nerevarine does not have Nerevar's memories or really anything that made Nerevar, Nerevar. The Nerevarine can even be a female Khajiit. Just because he/she is the reincarnation of Nerevar does not make it the same person.

As for the Nerevarine going to Akavir, it's just a way to make sure Bethesda doesn't have to deal with any inconsistencies and so they can avoid making a canon Nerevarine. The beauty of TES is that you can imagine what happened to him/her.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yet the Nerevarine does not have Nerevar's memories or really anything that made Nerevar, Nerevar. The Nerevarine can even be a female Khajiit. Just because he/she is the reincarnation of Nerevar does not make it the same person.

As for the Nerevarine going to Akavir, it's just a way to make sure Bethesda doesn't have to deal with any inconsistencies and so they can avoid making a canon Nerevarine. The beauty of TES is that you can imagine what happened to him/her.

The Nerevarine has Nerevar's soul, which contains all that is and was Nerevar.

But you see The Nerevar didn't go to Akavir, that is a rumor.

given how vivec put the secret to CHIM in his 36 sermons, a book series he wrote specifically for the Nerevarine, it is very possible The Nerevarine achieved CHIM.

 

[Jynthor]

Yet the Nerevarine does not have Nerevar's memories or really anything that made Nerevar, Nerevar. The Nerevarine can even be a female Khajiit. Just because he/she is the reincarnation of Nerevar does not make it the same person.

As for the Nerevarine going to Akavir, it's just a way to make sure Bethesda doesn't have to deal with any inconsistencies and so they can avoid making a canon Nerevarine. The beauty of TES is that you can imagine what happened to him/her.

The Nerevarine has Nerevar's soul, which contains all that is and was Nerevar.

But you see The Nerevar didn't go to Akavir, that is a rumor.

given how vivec put the secret to CHIM in his 36 sermons, a book series he wrote specifically for the Nerevarine, it is very possible The Nerevarine achieved CHIM.

That's up for the player to decide.

 

[SajuukKhar]

That's up for the player to decide.

At least until MK writes a piece about Nerevar chilling with Talos and Vivec in CHIM world.

 

[Bertylicious]

snip

I would love to hear your theories about how the dwemer are going to un-merge their souls from a giant robot.

Also Blackreach is the mainbase of the falmer/where the falmer fought the Dwemer in the old days.

Actually if I may leap in here:

It seems plausable that when the Heart of Lorkhan and the Tools were used by Vivec and er... the other 2 to become gods that they were using the same gear as the Dwemner used to create Numidiem so it follows that as the powers of Vivec & co. waned it could be linked to the fate of the Dwemner.

Vivec has been a long time gone from the scene but the magic that kept the Ministry of Truth floating in the air has only recently failed which lead to the destruction in Morrowind.

Now the Elder Scrolls are revealed to basically be a quantum artifact that exists at all points in time (and one would imagine space) at once and we know that the Dwemner understood the nature of the Elder Scrolls better than anyone. We also know that the Dwemner had something approaching a gestalt consiousness. This last fact is important because it colours how the Dwemner think; i.e. all as one.

I would float that the original Dwemner plan was in fact to enter a quantum state similar to The Elder Scrolls. Perhaps it was a crucial step in their plan to create an iron God; the Divines (who made or used the Elder Scrolls, I forget which) presumably exist in such a state to be able to be divine and the creation of Gods, such as Talos or the ascension of Martin Septim as Akatosh, proves that it is possible for mortals to enter a quantum state.

I'm shooting from the hip a bit here so that may not be very coherent but I hope it makes some kind of sense.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Actually if I may leap in here:

It seems plausable that when the Heart of Lorkhan and the Tools were used by Vivec and er... the other 2 to become gods that they were using the same gear as the Dwemner used to create Numidiem so it follows that as the powers of Vivec & co. waned it could be linked to the fate of the Dwemner.

Vivec has been a long time gone from the scene but the magic that kept the Ministry of Truth floating in the air has only recently failed which lead to the destruction in Morrowind.

Now the Elder Scrolls are revealed to basically be a quantum artifact that exists at all points in time (and one would imagine space) at once and we know that the Dwemner understood the nature of the Elder Scrolls better than anyone. We also know that the Dwemner had something approaching a gestalt consiousness. This last fact is important because it colours how the Dwemner think; i.e. all as one.

I would float that the original Dwemner plan was in fact to enter a quantum state similar to The Elder Scrolls. Perhaps it was a crucial step in their plan to create an iron God; the Divines (who made or used the Elder Scrolls, I forget which) presumably exist in such a state to be able to be divine and the creation of Gods, such as Talos or the ascension of Martin Septim as Akatosh, proves that it is possible for mortals to enter a quantum state.

I'm shooting from the hip a bit here so that may not be very coherent but I hope it makes some kind of sense.

The Dwemer had no such gessalt consciousnesses, they had a power dubbed "the calling" that allowed them to psychically communicate with each other, and even that is a SUPPOSED power whose only reference is in a work of fiction.

Also we know The Dwemer's plan, it was to un-make themselves from reality, to go back before Stasis and Change met, it had nothing to do with wanting to be like the gods.

 

[Fappy]

snip

Furthermore at the end of the civil war Tullius, Ulfirc, and The Doavhkiin took the first steps into becoming Talos, the nature of the events as they happened in skyrim will most likely lead to a Dragonbreak were both ends to the civil war happened.

Lorkhan that is Akatosh, the son(s) of Sithis who is Anuiel, who are themselves the soul(s) of Anu and Padomey incarnate, who hides himself under the mask of Talos, used his avatars, Ulfirc, Tullius, and the doavhkiin, to replace himself the pantheon of gods, since his old form was failing.

The thing is they never actually show you any of the crazy background lore and usually don't really touch on events of prior games as to not confuse people. All this stuff may be implied but I doubt it will really be a part of any content we actually witness in any future titles. I think it is actually more interesting to consider how they may hint at the true nature of Skyrim's events in future titles.

A dragonbreak will certainly happen and I hadn't really considered that the Dominion were actually successfully "killing" Talos, but I suppose the only way to kill a god in TES is to snuff out its worship all together.

I actually know very little about the Knights of the Nine lore aside from what was presented in the DLC. Where did you get that Whitestrake was from the future?

 

[Bertylicious]

awesome bollocks

The Dwemer had no such gessalt consciousnesses, they had a power dubbed "the calling" that allowed them to psychically communicate with each other, and even that is a SUPPOSED power whose only reference is in a work of fiction.

Also we know The Dwemer's plan, it was to un-make themselves from reality, to go back before Stasis and Change met, it had nothing to do with wanting to be like the gods.

Yeah, "gestalt consiousness" was a bit of a leap on my part.

This un-makeing business is news to me though. What did that have to do with the big golem? Have I misinterpreted it and the numidium was a ruse and the intent was this un-making? What was the aim of it? To achieve some sort of nirvana?

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yeah, "gestalt consiousness" was a bit of a leap on my part.

This un-makeing business is news to me though. What did that have to do with the big golem? Have I misinterpreted it and the numidium was a ruse and the intent was this un-making? What was the aim of it? To achieve some sort of nirvana?

The Dwemer believed that before the mortal realm was made and the spirits were "degraded" into the mortal races that their entire race was originally one spirit that was fractured over and over again until it became the Dwemer race.

the Dwemer built Numidium as a body to combine their entire race back into the singular being they thought they were before.

However beyond retuning to their supposed original state they sought to go back before the grey-maybe, to the place before anything, before any spirit was fractured and made into lesser gradients.

they sought to basically return to the black-void of nothingness, before Anu and Padomey met, before stasis and change inter mingled and achive CHIM.


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius
this sums it up pretty well.

 

[Bertylicious]

Yeah, "gestalt consiousness" was a bit of a leap on my part.

This un-makeing business is news to me though. What did that have to do with the big golem? Have I misinterpreted it and the numidium was a ruse and the intent was this un-making? What was the aim of it? To achieve some sort of nirvana?

The Dwemer believed that before the mortal realm was made and the spirits were "degraded" into the mortal races that their entire race was originally one spirit that was fractured over and over again until it became the Dwemer race.

the Dwemer built Numidium as a body to combine their entire race back into the singular being they thought they were before.

However beyond retuning to their supposed original state they sought to go back before the grey-maybe, to the place before anything, before any spirit was fractured and made into lesser gradients.

they sought to basically return to the black-void of nothingness, before Anu and Padomey met, before stasis and change inter mingled and achive CHIM.


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius
this sums it up pretty well.

Ah, I see! Perhaps that's where I got that whole "gestalt" thing from.

Sort of blows my theory out of the water though. Ho hum. Back to the drawing board.

 

[ardias014]

Sorry Nerevar went missing under shady circumstances on an expedition to akivir, which means he probably won't show up in the series again.
Validation of everything means invalidation because the choice you made doesn't mean anything because everything happened. The only games that truly validate choice are ones that actually import things from previous games like Mass Effect 2 and to some extent 3. In the ES series you can do all sorts of crap that doesn't translate into the newer games.

Spoiler

Also Sheo mentions that Martin Septim is his favorite emporer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48mckXg5NA&feature=related about 1:15

Disappearing after a trip to Akavir =/= dead. Furthermore the Nerevar going to Akavir was a RUMOR, just like how people thought Vivec was taken by the Daedra, when he wasn't. In reality Nerevar achieved CHIM most likely.
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Actually in the ES series every single quest is assumed to be done, though not necessarily by you. Everything you do is validated because they will never tell you your wrong. You chose to support X faction in Daggerfall? you are correct. Did you ONLY do the mages guild? Did you do all the guilds? did you do this sidequest? You can never be wrong.

furthermore most things you do SHOULDN'T transfer into new games, Mass Effect handles it very poorly by treating every piss you take on the sidewalk as some giant world changing event, which is terribly unrealistic.
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So what if Sheogorath like Martin? I'm sure Dagon the Razor liked Queen Potema for being evil and destructive.

Liking a specific Emperor =/= Sheogorath being the CoC.

So you saying because they make every single binary choice happen, they validate your choice. Does that mean that my choices are validated when they don't even take into account what decisions I made.

Martin didn't go insane, he didn't create chaos, he tried to save order. Why would the god of madness and chaos like some like that over the emperor he drove insane.

And for the Nerevar, even if he does show up he invalidates previous choices because he probably wont be like the character you made.

 

[SajuukKhar]

So you saying because they make every single binary choice happen, they validate your choice. Does that mean that my choices are validated when they don't even take into account what decisions I made.

Martin didn't go insane, he didn't create chaos, he tried to save order. Why would the god of madness and chaos like some like that over the emperor he drove insane.

And for the Nerevar, even if he does show up he invalidates previous choices because he probably wont be like the character you made.

Actually they DID take your choice to account becuase the end result in all choices. You help X person? they got the kingdom they would have made anyways. You gave the totem to Manimarco? he became a god also.

the resulting world has ALL choices taken into account.
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Because The Es universe is one were Lokrhan(space) and Akatosh(time) are the same person. were Sithis(chaos) and Anuiel(stasis) are the same person, were Anu(stasis and Padomey(change) ARE THE SAME FORCE. Stasis and Change, space and time, chaos and sanity ARE THE SAME THING.

Furthermore Akatosh is crazy, like confirmed crazy, like so crazy he drives his avatars mad by the sheer fact they are somewhat related to him, and Martin became Akatosh.
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He wont show up so it doesn't matter.

 

[ardias014]

Actually they DID take your choice to account becuase the end result in all choices. You help X person? they got the kingdom they would have made anyways. You gave the totem to Manimarco? he became a god also.

the resulting world has ALL choices taken into account.
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Because The Es universe is one were Lokrhan(space) and Akatosh(time) are the same person. were Sithis(chaos) and Anuiel(stasis) are the same person, were Anu(stasis and Padomey(change) ARE THE SAME FORCE. Stasis and Change, space and time, chaos and sanity ARE THE SAME THING.

Furthermore Akatosh is crazy, like confirmed crazy, like so crazy he drives his avatars mad by the sheer fact they are somewhat related to him, and Martin became Akatosh.
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He wont show up so it doesn't matter.

Okay what do you consider validation of previous choices is? Because I'm talking about how the choices that you personally made are not validated, not how all things from previous games return in the new games. For instance I could have killed everyone in Bravil and it didn't change anything. Or I could be apart of all the guilds and not be a night of the nine or Sheo.The only way they "validate" things like that is by giving hazy details that validate nothing and only leave nebulous areas.

Also:
Sheogorath said he was present for the whole sorry affair, which means Kvatch on. If he were not the champion he wouldn't have been at Martin's side.
Akatosh isn't all that crazy. The only avatar I can think of that went crazy was Pelinal ans he was a mainfestation of Shor/Lorkhan not akatosh.
Lorkhan is not Akatosh, he is tiber septim/ shor/ various other manifestations.
I maybe wrong on this one, but sithis is the void/ nothingness not chaos.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Okay what do you consider validation of previous choices is? Because I'm talking about how the choices that you personally made are not validated, not how all things from previous games return in the new games. For instance I could have killed everyone in Bravil and it didn't change anything. Or I could be apart of all the guilds and not be a night of the nine or Sheo.The only way they "validate" things like that is by giving hazy details that validate nothing and only leave nebulous areas.

Also:
Sheogorath said he was present for the whole sorry affair, which means Kvatch on. If he were not the champion he wouldn't have been at Martin's side.
Akatosh isn't all that crazy. The only avatar I can think of that went crazy was Pelinal ans he was a mainfestation of Shor/Lorkhan not akatosh.
Lorkhan is not Akatosh, he is tiber septim/ shor/ various other manifestations.
I maybe wrong on this one, but sithis is the void/ nothingness not chaos.

What I consider invalidation is what Fallout does, they give you options like "you can destroy the NCR" in Fallout 2, or cause city X and city Y to go to war, then regardless of what you picked in the sequels they say "na NCR wasn't destroyed and these two cities never went to war"

The Elder scrolls series just doesn't tell you, because most of what you do wouldn't be remembered except in the local area and even then it would be forgotten in a couple years. It is left vague so you can never be wrong, except in a very FEW number of occurrences.

Furthermore the fact that you dont hear about it doesn't make it invalidated because THAT REALISTIC, that is how it would play out.
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Daedric princes can manifest themselves through various avatars or just look on from their realms. Him being "present" could simply mean he was a random mook that was in cyrdoill at the time everything went down.
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Actually Lokrhan IS Akatosh, Michael Kirkbride, known as MK on forums, one of the series biggest lore writers, said so himself.
http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

MK
 Jun 23 2006, 10:19 AM
Post #8


Curate


Joined: 22-March 04





QUOTE(Xanathar @ Jun 23 2006, 03:46 AM)Â

Shezzar == Akatosh ?Â


You guessed it. The Arena is a collection of pseudo-imagos, all the way down to the core. Lorkhan is Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time is the Missing God of Change.

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Also Pelineal was an avatar of akatosh
http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v6
"Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging."
""O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!" [And it was during] these fits of anger and nonsense that Pelinal would fall into the Madness"

Pelinal and Akatosh were both mad.
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Also Sithis is change.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tower
"What is the rim of the Wheel?

As the process of subcreation continued, both Anu and Padhome awakened. For to see your antithesis is to finally awaken. Each gave birth to their souls, Auriel and Sithis, and these souls regarded the Aurbis each in their own part, and from this came the etada, the original patterns. These etada eventually congealed."

Sithis is the soul of Padhome, Padhome is the primal force of change. Sithis is the soul of change.

 

[ardias014]

snip

1st off: I agree with you on leaving choice open for earlier games, but that isn't validation. True validation in this circumstance would mean it literaly put your choice in the next game.

2: MK misses the gigantic plot hole of Lorkhan being dead and having his body ripped into pieces and the other thousand problems with the conflicting lore.

3: But was pelinal insane every second. No. Just because Akatosh has madness doesn't mean he is the god of chaos or insanity. Everything is at least partially mad or insane.
Also:"It is said that Pelinal emerged in to Nirn like a Padomaic, carried by Sithis and all other forces of change. Described by Morihaus as an ada or spirit, Pelinal plays the same role as a long line of avatars sent by Shor to champion the cause of mankind. Pelinal, however, is an exception, as he exhibits significant bonds to Akatosh as well, who is hostile to Shor."

4: Thanks for clearing that up Sithis always confused me because they say hes a hole in reality sometimes.