The Escapist Presents: The Escapist On: Griefing
- Thread starter Team Hollywood
- Start date
In my experience (I know a little TF2 griefing clan) griefers do it to get the feeling of bullying because they don't get that feeling in real life.
Why is it that griefers always seem to be scrawny little nerds?
Or wait... in conjunction with the line above, it makes perfect sense.
Kids that got bullied around and because they know they could never bully someone in real life, they have to go online.
The best tactic against griefers is to just ignore them
That really pisses them off more than anything, as what they really crave is a little attention, which I assume they lack in real life and need to find it somewhere else.
Log out, or just plain don't acknowledge them and they'll stew.
The other thing I find highly entertaining about griefers, is that if you piss them off in any way - be it ingame or any other way over the internet, they strangely tend to be outraged.
It's the age old way that things go. Easy to hand out grief, but when it comes to you: cry, cry, cry.
"Ha ha I ruined the game you paid for"
and in the next breath
"OMG! who would hack my *insert whatever* account !? People are such dicks"
(Yes, there is a story behind that one ;D)
Also if you manage to track a griefer and then mess up a game when they are playing it "seriously" themselves, I've noticed they tend to cry louder than most people.
The description of griefing in this video is a little broad though, in my opinion.
Not logging into a game = griefing? Really?
Also as harsh as Landslide's Eve experience was, I wouldn't call that griefing myself.
Baiting, maybe? But that's hardly griefing.
Why is it that griefers always seem to be scrawny little nerds?
Or wait... in conjunction with the line above, it makes perfect sense.
Kids that got bullied around and because they know they could never bully someone in real life, they have to go online.
The best tactic against griefers is to just ignore them
That really pisses them off more than anything, as what they really crave is a little attention, which I assume they lack in real life and need to find it somewhere else.
Log out, or just plain don't acknowledge them and they'll stew.
The other thing I find highly entertaining about griefers, is that if you piss them off in any way - be it ingame or any other way over the internet, they strangely tend to be outraged.
It's the age old way that things go. Easy to hand out grief, but when it comes to you: cry, cry, cry.
"Ha ha I ruined the game you paid for"
and in the next breath
"OMG! who would hack my *insert whatever* account
!? People are such dicks"(Yes, there is a story behind that one ;D)
Also if you manage to track a griefer and then mess up a game when they are playing it "seriously" themselves, I've noticed they tend to cry louder than most people.
The description of griefing in this video is a little broad though, in my opinion.
Not logging into a game = griefing? Really?
Also as harsh as Landslide's Eve experience was, I wouldn't call that griefing myself.
Baiting, maybe? But that's hardly griefing.
There's an anti-social section of society which comes out in online gaming thanks to its anonymity, bias towards the experienced player, and lack of actual consequence.
Much of what keeps humans in check are the penalties for doing wrong. Nobody wants to get locked up, or worse. Games impose fines on players which are as *nothing* to what would happen in real life.
You Murder someone: You're going to hang/fry/do life.
You Defraud someone out of 700,000,000 credits: You're going to do hard time.
You consistently harass a helpless 'child': You're going to get a restraining order / do time.
You set wild animals loose on other people: You're gonna do time / get a hefty fine.
What happens in games? nothing, nothing, nothing and nothing respectively.
What is there to stop the griefers when there is no sense of balance or justice? It's almost as if the online games are DESIGNED to promote dick behaviour by the omission of any form of consequence for dick behaviour.
The sad fact is that the griefers think that they're superior for ruining the game for other people. The real truth is that everyone's down the pub, out at the match, or enjoying the sunshine while the griefers sit in their bedroom in their Y-fronts pretending to be cool by posting 'LOL' and 'n00b' on forums, but all the while waiting for their mum to shout "Dinner's ready love", allowing two more minutes to pi$$ off another person who just wants to play the game, before the threat of "It's going cold!" is issued and they have to boast "gtg g/f here, gng 2 da prk 4 a blwjb, l8r d00dz" on their private "pirate chat channel". Losers.
Much of what keeps humans in check are the penalties for doing wrong. Nobody wants to get locked up, or worse. Games impose fines on players which are as *nothing* to what would happen in real life.
You Murder someone: You're going to hang/fry/do life.
You Defraud someone out of 700,000,000 credits: You're going to do hard time.
You consistently harass a helpless 'child': You're going to get a restraining order / do time.
You set wild animals loose on other people: You're gonna do time / get a hefty fine.
What happens in games? nothing, nothing, nothing and nothing respectively.
What is there to stop the griefers when there is no sense of balance or justice? It's almost as if the online games are DESIGNED to promote dick behaviour by the omission of any form of consequence for dick behaviour.
The sad fact is that the griefers think that they're superior for ruining the game for other people. The real truth is that everyone's down the pub, out at the match, or enjoying the sunshine while the griefers sit in their bedroom in their Y-fronts pretending to be cool by posting 'LOL' and 'n00b' on forums, but all the while waiting for their mum to shout "Dinner's ready love", allowing two more minutes to pi$$ off another person who just wants to play the game, before the threat of "It's going cold!" is issued and they have to boast "gtg g/f here, gng 2 da prk 4 a blwjb, l8r d00dz" on their private "pirate chat channel". Losers.
I know they were Escapist staff, but apart from that, I had no ideas who they were. Maybe putting the names at the bottom would help.
EDIT: Sorry, I just watched the whole video.
EDIT: Sorry, I just watched the whole video.
Griefing is the reason i like World of Warcraft's Normal servers so much. I had a friend at college who switched from a PvP server (Where you can get attacked by any member of an enemy faction when not in a major city or low level area at any time) back in the Burning Crusade expansion. He got to about level 65 (out of 70) and literally started to get sick of levelling, but not because of the grindarific nature of the game.
He got sick of it because every 5 minutes, some level 70 would swoop in on his ultra-fast flying mount, kill him with ease, and then fly back up into the sky so he could dive bomb down and kill him again when he resurrected. This griefing led him to switch to a normal server where PvP combat is voluntary (Unless in an enemy capital city) which let him play the game without douchebags ruining his fun as much.
Whilst WoW does a lot of things compared to previous MMO's before it to make the game seem less cheap and annoying, such as not losing gear or experience for dying and more griefproof gameplay, people still find a way to do it. And i think that since the first expansion gave players uber-fast flying mounts, PvP ceased to exist in the open world. Any level 70 on the ground was there to kill monsters, quest, gathering materials and so on, and the rest were flying around to get to where they wanted to, very easily able to swoop down and destroy anyone who was on the ground occupied with other things.
It's still much better than Diablo 2. I loved the hardcore mode on that game (Once you die, that character becomes unplayable) because it makes you a lot more careful about how you play, moreso than so-called "Survival Horror" games. However, whilst the rules still allowed PvP on hardcore mode, there were things in place to allow you to know when someone had enabled theres so you could easily quit out of the game. I however was killed due to a hacker/glitcher griefer who had bypassed one of these measures to someone enable PvP, jump through a pre-existing portal to my location (Which should have disappeared as soon as he enabled PvP) and then one shot me.
Griefing is the act of getting enjoyment from pissing people off. The guy who got scammed on EVE was not griefed in my eyes as it was totally preventable if he had payed attention. Still sucks that it happened, but it was mostly his own fault for not looking. I've done the same thing in World of Warcraft a few times, i'd fished up a rare fish and accidentally tossed it out because it usually loots the fish without a confirmation box, thus the process is quick and i recast my line. By recasting my line during the confirmation box of the rare fish, i lost it.
He got sick of it because every 5 minutes, some level 70 would swoop in on his ultra-fast flying mount, kill him with ease, and then fly back up into the sky so he could dive bomb down and kill him again when he resurrected. This griefing led him to switch to a normal server where PvP combat is voluntary (Unless in an enemy capital city) which let him play the game without douchebags ruining his fun as much.
Whilst WoW does a lot of things compared to previous MMO's before it to make the game seem less cheap and annoying, such as not losing gear or experience for dying and more griefproof gameplay, people still find a way to do it. And i think that since the first expansion gave players uber-fast flying mounts, PvP ceased to exist in the open world. Any level 70 on the ground was there to kill monsters, quest, gathering materials and so on, and the rest were flying around to get to where they wanted to, very easily able to swoop down and destroy anyone who was on the ground occupied with other things.
It's still much better than Diablo 2. I loved the hardcore mode on that game (Once you die, that character becomes unplayable) because it makes you a lot more careful about how you play, moreso than so-called "Survival Horror" games. However, whilst the rules still allowed PvP on hardcore mode, there were things in place to allow you to know when someone had enabled theres so you could easily quit out of the game. I however was killed due to a hacker/glitcher griefer who had bypassed one of these measures to someone enable PvP, jump through a pre-existing portal to my location (Which should have disappeared as soon as he enabled PvP) and then one shot me.
Griefing is the act of getting enjoyment from pissing people off. The guy who got scammed on EVE was not griefed in my eyes as it was totally preventable if he had payed attention. Still sucks that it happened, but it was mostly his own fault for not looking. I've done the same thing in World of Warcraft a few times, i'd fished up a rare fish and accidentally tossed it out because it usually loots the fish without a confirmation box, thus the process is quick and i recast my line. By recasting my line during the confirmation box of the rare fish, i lost it.
Pretty sure everyone on the video who said they'd been griefed said you just deal with it. It's a fact of online play: There are dicks who get their rocks off by annoying other people.grenravenlock said:
Really, it's quite flattering they take the time and effort to interact with me, when I normally would have given them no attention whatsoever. It's like a 3-year-old who desperately wants his Mommy's attention and approval when Mommy's busy working. Kind of like your signing up just to post. Very cute.
/pats your head
Hah, nice vid. Hope to see others.
I never really got the whole griefing thing.
I remember when we used to play TDM/CTF's in Q3. There was always one fool who would run around fragging his own teamates all the while totally ignoring the enemy (no accidents there) or the 'guy' who would camp in his base until his teams flag carrier was about to cap, then proceded to bombard him with rockets.
I always assumed that they either were really bored/childish or they just totally sucked balls.
Griefing sucks, Griefers suck as much (if not more)...but why get twisted over it? There's always another server, another game or another day.
Hmm... I think the non-gaming term for that is retarded SoB.Eric the Orange said:
I never really got the whole griefing thing.
I remember when we used to play TDM/CTF's in Q3. There was always one fool who would run around fragging his own teamates all the while totally ignoring the enemy (no accidents there) or the 'guy' who would camp in his base until his teams flag carrier was about to cap, then proceded to bombard him with rockets.
I always assumed that they either were really bored/childish or they just totally sucked balls.
Griefing sucks, Griefers suck as much (if not more)...but why get twisted over it? There's always another server, another game or another day.
All you guys sound like some QQing noobs who can't grasp the concept of the new MMO's. The guy who was mad he bought the ammunition that was overpriced, that's your fault. You're argument is flawed, and I really feel no remorse for you're situation. You clicked it, noone made you buy his more expensive auction, you're just that one idiot who made the salesmen rich. If you think wow is a carebear game.. you can come play with me sometime, you must really not know much about the game. Ohh you're cool, you played EQ. Act like that games pvp and pve shit ain't broken. Wow has it all worked out, its just a part of the game. If you choose to play on a pvp server, you're gonna get ganked. Some like it, and others choose to play on the carebear servers. Whichever you'd choose, we're all enjoying the same game in our own way. I'm the asshole with a lvl 80 rogue that doesn't leave Darkshire. (alliance lvl 20-30 zone) I'll log on occasionally just to camp some lowbies for a few hours, venting my aggression from any other aspect of the game onto the other faction. Ahhh the joy, killing every npc in town, and wasting anyone who interferes. Oh no! Some of their mains, or guildies have come to save them.. Off to the shadows where I'll alt tab and do something else. Only to return when they decide to get back to questing, I will continue my sweet grieving.
Glory to the Horde
-Toastybuds
ps. i'm gonna go camp some lvl 30 night elves for a few hours.
Glory to the Horde
-Toastybuds
ps. i'm gonna go camp some lvl 30 night elves for a few hours.
What argument? I was relating something that happened to me, that pissed me off. Mostly because it was my fault. At no point did I try to absolve myself of that responsibility, except initially when my angry response was to email the guy and the CS staff. Watch it again if you didn't catch that the first time around.toastybuds said:
And if you think my argument is that the guy was a dick for listing ammo at that price, he absolutely was. That's not debatable. In fact, I'm sure the individual in question has no illusions that he's being a dick. Fun thing in EVE, is he's not breaking any rules. So he's free to BE a dick. Just like real life.
Understand, I know I'm to blame for the mistake. But it doesn't mean the seller is any less of a dick for trying to take advantage of people not paying attention.
The problem is a threefold one, all of them related to human nature and all of them coming to existence not only in videogames, but every online community of people I've ever witnessed.
First, there is the problem of people finding different things funny. The commenters in the video even admit that (for some) there is or can be an element of humor in griefing. See also Brett Staebell's article.
Second is the problem of people feeling like they can get away with being assholes because the repercussions are small or nonexistent. They aren't confronted with the consequences of their behavior (like actually seeing another human being be hurt by your words, which are your actions on the internet, or having an actual punishment result) and of course anyone who points out that they're being a dick is regarded as a 'whiner' or 'pussy' and the group who are in on the griefing, or unaffected, all say: Hey get over it, it's the internet, as though somehow the effort or relationships built online aren't real/don't matter, and it's only how you act in real life that matters.
But the truth is, how you behave online is how you behave in real life. And sure, you can't really be exiled from town anymore (not online, not in real life) it doesn't change the fact that you are an asshole.
Finally, there's the problem of some people just enjoying being rotten.
All of these people thrive on attention. Though Xombee (on page 2) will insist:
"The only misconseption about griefing is that it's done over self-esteem or game skill." S/he fails to actually demonstrate where griefing ISN'T done about self esteem.
Griefers are, to put a nasty point on it, whores who didn't get enough love from Mommy, and now have to shit on you in order to get off.
So the way to solve this is threefold:
First, do not give them attention if at all possible. Addicts leave when they don't get drugs.
Second, remember that their being a dick doesn't give you the right to be a dick, because them being a dick isn't about you. It's about them being attention whores.
Finally, remember that there ARE (and in my opinion, should always be) moderators or admins to whom you can take a problem to. If nothing happens, maybe it's just you (I know there have been times when I could be correctly accused of being thin skinned) but if it's a genuine issue then there should be protocols in any game to handle people who are out to ruin the good time of the many.
I've left games of L4D because the people were behaving in a way I couldn't stand. Instead of letting them ruin my fun I took my ball and went to a new playground. In the future I will start downmodding them, so I run into them less. Win-win.
First, there is the problem of people finding different things funny. The commenters in the video even admit that (for some) there is or can be an element of humor in griefing. See also Brett Staebell's article.
Second is the problem of people feeling like they can get away with being assholes because the repercussions are small or nonexistent. They aren't confronted with the consequences of their behavior (like actually seeing another human being be hurt by your words, which are your actions on the internet, or having an actual punishment result) and of course anyone who points out that they're being a dick is regarded as a 'whiner' or 'pussy' and the group who are in on the griefing, or unaffected, all say: Hey get over it, it's the internet, as though somehow the effort or relationships built online aren't real/don't matter, and it's only how you act in real life that matters.
But the truth is, how you behave online is how you behave in real life. And sure, you can't really be exiled from town anymore (not online, not in real life) it doesn't change the fact that you are an asshole.
Finally, there's the problem of some people just enjoying being rotten.
All of these people thrive on attention. Though Xombee (on page 2) will insist:
"The only misconseption about griefing is that it's done over self-esteem or game skill." S/he fails to actually demonstrate where griefing ISN'T done about self esteem.
Griefers are, to put a nasty point on it, whores who didn't get enough love from Mommy, and now have to shit on you in order to get off.
So the way to solve this is threefold:
First, do not give them attention if at all possible. Addicts leave when they don't get drugs.
Second, remember that their being a dick doesn't give you the right to be a dick, because them being a dick isn't about you. It's about them being attention whores.
Finally, remember that there ARE (and in my opinion, should always be) moderators or admins to whom you can take a problem to. If nothing happens, maybe it's just you (I know there have been times when I could be correctly accused of being thin skinned) but if it's a genuine issue then there should be protocols in any game to handle people who are out to ruin the good time of the many.
I've left games of L4D because the people were behaving in a way I couldn't stand. Instead of letting them ruin my fun I took my ball and went to a new playground. In the future I will start downmodding them, so I run into them less. Win-win.
Like I've said before. EVE is Griefer's Hell. It's designed to attract those with a griefing mentality and let them feed off each other. In fact, they don't even consider it griefing over at CCP, rather normal gameplay dynamics that makes them oodles of cash from subscribers starting from scratch over and over again.Noddler said:
I am happy that those interviewed in this video are available to respond to comments about the video. I'm going to post something later on but I would like to point out something about the subject of trains in EQ.
o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.)
From their Rules of Conduct.
http://www.triadcontinuum.net/roconduct.htm (correct me if I'm wrong but that is EQ's EULA?)
o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.)
From their Rules of Conduct.
http://www.triadcontinuum.net/roconduct.htm (correct me if I'm wrong but that is EQ's EULA?)
Pathetic. A video about a bunch of bads crying because people are mean in video games. You realize that your tears simply spur griefers on more right? The point is to make you frustrated, angry, to report them, to send them hate messages, rage quit.
I mean think about this. What is "the spirit of the game"? To have fun, right? Why is carebear-PVE-everyone be nice to everyone else fun? It is for some. But other people want to pvp. The point of mmos are the player interaction, and that should include scamming, ganking, and griefing, just for the hell of it.
I mean think about this. What is "the spirit of the game"? To have fun, right? Why is carebear-PVE-everyone be nice to everyone else fun? It is for some. But other people want to pvp. The point of mmos are the player interaction, and that should include scamming, ganking, and griefing, just for the hell of it.
is it not intnended to drive the enjoyment away from other people and keeping it for yourself i mean thats online games xbox live gamers tend to be pricks. i mean look at the works of shawn elliot former 1 up editor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUbUvzlvFw
This would the tactic I've primarily employed in my years online. Sometimes the results are wonderful to behold.The_root_of_all_evil said:There's also reverse griefing, where you're actually nice to the people. That REALLY upsets the griefers. Applaud everytime they kill you. Ask how those hacks make you so awesome. Send them little friend requests.
I don't tend to get griefed so much now
Same here, i mic spam the Imagination Land song on GTA4 beacuse people go ape shit. They never seem to realise muting me is an option.Sexy.EXE said:
Oh, and i teamkill in Halo 3...A LOT.