The final final fantasy

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Gindil

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Souplex said:
ZhaneEndrick said:
They mentioned this a few years ago too. I love the series, but I'd be okay with this. I'd be even MORE okay with it if they put all that energy into a new Chrono Trigger.
Chrono Trigger is basically an unnumbered final fantasy.
*sniff*

You cruel monster! How could you!? Comparing such a great game to a series that has had 14 sequels without being final?

I'm kidding.

Seriously, there is NOT a sequel to Chrono Trigger that has been made. I don't know what Square made but they were high that year and it wasn't a sequel.
 

BlackWidower

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PissedGrunty said:
BlackWidower said:
Well then why call it Final Fantasy?
Because back then, Square Soft was a failing company about to go bankrupt and announced that this time would be their "final fantasy".
Yes, the original Final Fantasy was called that because it was meant to be their last game. But since then it obviously not going to be their last game so why continue naming them Final Fantasy, especially since there is no story connection.

The various sequels have had at least a connection in gameplay, they've all been turn-based RPGs. Now you say they are "stepping away from the traditional JRPG format." So, why continue calling it "Final Fantasy"?
 

lenneth

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PissedGrunty said:
Their recent new IPs (Blue Dragon, Last Remenant, Dissidia) haven't sold very well at all and were pretty mediocre. Not to mention that they are running out of titles of yesteryear to rerelease on the PSP and DS.
Isn't Dissidia a spin-off not an IP seeing as its entire playable character list is comprised of FF characters? and seeing as they havent re-made 5&6, the best of the 2D ones...which they couldve done in the first place.

Z of the Na said:
Thirteen is a good number to stop at.

There is a point when a game series has run its course, and in my opinion, Final Fantasy has.
After X-2 i would have agreed with you but then XII came along and completely re-did things for the better. Final Fantasy will still be around for years to come, they may get less frequent (which if they focus on new, interesting IP's like TWEWY and Sigma harmonics then it would be a good thing(yes i know they're both DS games but i used both as examples because Last Remnant was shit))
*ends ranting*

They said focusing on new things so they're prolly focusing on stuff like Kingdom Hearts (358/2 days already out and Birth by sleep, i think thats what its called coming soon so KH3 prolly wont be too far off) and maybe a new IP or two maybe a sequel and or remake of a series that isnt FF.
I guarentee we'll have heard FFXV announced by 2020

also did a quick google and http://www.ffinsider.net/2009/10/30/new-images-from-four-warriors-of-light-final-fantasy-gaiden.php

oh look its (admitedly a couple of months old) a new Final Fantasy, well how about that
 

traceur_

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It can't stop until Final Fantasy XXX, I have a heap of jokes ready to go and I will not let them go to waste.
 

effilctar

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-Seraph- said:
rokkolpo said:
i wonder how many final fantasy's there has been.

definitly more then 13.......i'm guessing 25.
Including all the spinoffs, sequels, prequels, ports, remakes, ect...there are around 50+ games that bear the Final Fantasy name.
37, not including remakes, re-releases on new consoles and other games featuring FF characters.
 

NickCaligo42

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Time for a rant from a disappointed fan.

Folks, the last good Final Fantasy game came out ten years ago for the Playstation 2. Since then Square's NEVER been true to their own formula outside remakes and it's been an unerringly downhill slide.

Final Fantasy X-2: Decently innovative gameplay, but a needlessly convoluted and metagamey system whose logic is unclear compared with that of the first game. The "Charlie's Angels" thing has inspired a lot of drooling fanboys and cosplayers over the skimpy, colorful outfits, but I don't think anybody really enjoyed putting up with it all through the game. It was just obnoxious.

Final Fantasy XI: A shallow, boring MMORPG that only die-hard Final Fantasy fans really played a whole lot and only those who were crazy enough to actually enjoy mastering it stuck with. Flat-out ignored by the majority of the fanbase for its departure from the series proper.

Final Fantasy XII: There's a lot of people who'll disagree with me here, but it's terrible. I like what they did with Ivalice and everything, but the characters are boring and there's nothing within them to make the player really connect with them. All their appeal is pretty much centered around Balthier's finest imitation of James Bond and Fran's breasts. Outside this they exhibit little growth or development and many of their motivations are barely clear. Vaan and Penello were shoehorned in by editorial mandate; Bache was actually supposed to be the main character, but it was decided that he was ACTUALLY TOO MANLY and instead of doing the SMART thing and just changing his character design they decided to make up two more characters and cram them into the plot. The game's system itself is so broken that Square completely re-did the license board system for the international re-release, opting to feature more of a job system in order to help characters become more distinct since there was absolutely no difference between them otherwise and players could happily ignore most of them. Quickenings are so busted that boss fights are intentionally set up around abusing the crap out of them. I could rant more, but this is just overall a dissatisfying game thanks to the schizophrenic production it went through over five years. I can see what they were trying to do, building a complex story of political intrigue and imperialism and a world where everybody thinks they're doing the right thing rather than where the bad guy is just evil for no reason, but it came off as way too impersonal and detached at its best moments and just flat-out boring the rest of the time. It's not what people really wanted out of the Final Fantasy series and it's not up to the standards of quality the series is usually known for.

What else did Square give us in the meantime? The Last Remnant, a game where you issue vague SUGGESTIONS to the characters, cross your fingers, and hope they do something helpful. Before that, Kingdom Hearts, which was awesome and also around the time of Final Fantasy X, and Kingdom Hearts 2, which is a horrible mess of plot-holes, a boring story since all the best questions that they raised were wasted on Chain of Memories, and more of a collection of features than a game.

Finally, NOW we get Final Fantasy 13, the game that has the balls to say, "you know all that RPG stuff we usually do? Like, the detailed setting, the characters we usually interact with and the towns that you're usually able to go and visit and explore and crap? We're not doing any of that." Instead, you move forward through prettily dressed linear corridors, fight monsters, buy items at SAVE POINTS--there are NO SHOPS in the game--watch cutscenes, rinse, and repeat for hours and hours and hours. It's like they had such a huge problem developing this game with today's production standards that they scaled it way the hell back to the barest basics of what a Final Fantasy game could possibly be, and I guarantee that when the pretty visuals wear off there's going to be a lot of angry fans.

Square's been on the downhill slide for quite a while, and most fans will agree they haven't made a proper Final Fantasy in the last DECADE, so it's no wonder they haven't been able to grow their fanbase. All this press release tells me is that they're stupid, don't understand what their fans want, and now are simply openly admitting to it rather than pretending and stalling--and that's what they've been doing for the last ten years. Anybody ever wonder where Kingdom Hearts 3 is? News flash: It's on the PSP and it's called Birth by Sleep. What do you want to bet they did this to avoid updating it to the new hardware standards of the Xbox 360 and PS3 as much as humanly possible, opting for the old "safe" standards that they knew from the PS2 instead?

The fact of the matter is that Square hasn't been interested in what they do for a long, long time. Now their head says they want to adopt more "western" ideas. Let's get something straight here, people--we don't WANT them to do that. NOBODY wants them to do that. Nobody's ASKING them to. If I want to play Dragon Age, I'll go and play Dragon Age, not Final Fantasy. I play Final Fantasy for an original, detailed, and fantastical setting and a strong story centered around explicit narrative, character growth, and development, with the main focus being on fairly broad themes but at least exploring different ones between each game's setting. That's the appeal of their franchise, and it's a completely different product from what other, more western RPGs represent. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the way these games are built, except that they have consistently FAILED TO DELIVER for TEN YEARS. That's Duke Nukem Forever levels of fail, folks. All the while they've been pandering--PANDERING, condescendingly at that, to their fanbase rather than actually trying to make good products with mass appeal.

If they change the formula now and try to imitate someone else's style, I can tell you what's going to happen. They'll blow millions on art assets and a new game engine, then release their game to a horrible reception as fans collectively scratch their heads and feel dissatisfied and empty and non-fans continue to ignore the game out of the same reasons they ALWAYS did. Square goes bankrupt, and we really WILL have seen the Final Final Fantasy. I may sound like I'm exaggerating here, especially since they're a fairly major publisher, but crazier things have happened. Square's not as big a company as they seem to be and put themselves in serious financial trouble over a bad MOVIE once upon a time. It's not that far-fetched that the next decade could see them finally bury themselves in a deep grave with poor business decisions.
 

EscapeGoat_v1legacy

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A new IP from Sqeenix would be pretty interesting to see, I must admit, even as a Final Fantasy fan. And, personally, it doesn't bother me if they stop making Final Fantasy games after this one, since the series has had a great run, with most of the games being fantastic experiences, and if Square can take the effort they put into that series and create a brand new IP, then I'll still be happy.
 

Ophiuchus

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Mar 31, 2008
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I'm a massive Final Fantasy fan, but maybe it is time to let it go. I haven't truly enjoyed any of them since FF9, in fact I've liked each one less and less since then. FF10 was a good showcase for what the PS2 could do at the time but ultimately I found Tidus so irritating that I couldn't stick with it. X-2 is probably alright if you can get involved and don't mind the whole Charlie's Angels thing, but I just found the whole thing bewildering. FF11... well, I actually just started playing the free trial yesterday, giving up within a couple of hours because... well, there's just so much about it that I couldn't live with. As for FF12, I got to a point about 13 hours in and felt absolutely no impetus to carry on.

As for the future: I'm remaining optimistic about FF13, despite all the stories I'm hearing that make me want to slap every single member of the design team. FF14 - well, I'm less keen on the idea now that I've played FF11, but I've signed up for the beta so I'll let you know how it is if I'm accepted.

Perhaps it's time for Squeenix to hand over the JRPG throne to someone else - my vote goes to Mistwalker if they keep making games as good as Lost Odyssey which, for my money, is more Final Fantasy than anything after FF9.
 

Fappy

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I highly doubt they will stop permanently. Every time a new one comes out Tokyo goes berserk as if its Black Friday and Christmas Eve simultaneously.
 

Manji187

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NickCaligo42 said:
Time for a rant from a disappointed fan.

Folks, the last good Final Fantasy game came out ten years ago for the Playstation 2. Since then Square's NEVER been true to their own formula outside remakes and it's been an unerringly downhill slide.

Final Fantasy X-2: Decently innovative gameplay, but a needlessly convoluted and metagamey system whose logic is unclear compared with that of the first game. The "Charlie's Angels" thing has inspired a lot of drooling fanboys and cosplayers over the skimpy, colorful outfits, but I don't think anybody really enjoyed putting up with it all through the game. It was just obnoxious.

Final Fantasy XI: A shallow, boring MMORPG that only die-hard Final Fantasy fans really played a whole lot and only those who were crazy enough to actually enjoy mastering it stuck with. Flat-out ignored by the majority of the fanbase for its departure from the series proper.

Final Fantasy XII: There's a lot of people who'll disagree with me here, but it's terrible. I like what they did with Ivalice and everything, but the characters are boring and there's nothing within them to make the player really connect with them. All their appeal is pretty much centered around Balthier's finest imitation of James Bond and Fran's breasts. Outside this they exhibit little growth or development and many of their motivations are barely clear. Vaan and Penello were shoehorned in by editorial mandate; Bache was actually supposed to be the main character, but it was decided that he was ACTUALLY TOO MANLY and instead of doing the SMART thing and just changing his character design they decided to make up two more characters and cram them into the plot. The game's system itself is so broken that Square completely re-did the license board system for the international re-release, opting to feature more of a job system in order to help characters become more distinct since there was absolutely no difference between them otherwise and players could happily ignore most of them. Quickenings are so busted that boss fights are intentionally set up around abusing the crap out of them. I could rant more, but this is just overall a dissatisfying game thanks to the schizophrenic production it went through over five years. I can see what they were trying to do, building a complex story of political intrigue and imperialism and a world where everybody thinks they're doing the right thing rather than where the bad guy is just evil for no reason, but it came off as way too impersonal and detached at its best moments and just flat-out boring the rest of the time. It's not what people really wanted out of the Final Fantasy series and it's not up to the standards of quality the series is usually known for.

What else did Square give us in the meantime? The Last Remnant, a game where you issue vague SUGGESTIONS to the characters, cross your fingers, and hope they do something helpful. Before that, Kingdom Hearts, which was awesome and also around the time of Final Fantasy X, and Kingdom Hearts 2, which is a horrible mess of plot-holes, a boring story since all the best questions that they raised were wasted on Chain of Memories, and more of a collection of features than a game.

Finally, NOW we get Final Fantasy 13, the game that has the balls to say, "you know all that RPG stuff we usually do? Like, the detailed setting, the characters we usually interact with and the towns that you're usually able to go and visit and explore and crap? We're not doing any of that." Instead, you move forward through prettily dressed linear corridors, fight monsters, buy items at SAVE POINTS--there are NO SHOPS in the game--watch cutscenes, rinse, and repeat for hours and hours and hours. It's like they had such a huge problem developing this game with today's production standards that they scaled it way the hell back to the barest basics of what a Final Fantasy game could possibly be, and I guarantee that when the pretty visuals wear off there's going to be a lot of angry fans.

Square's been on the downhill slide for quite a while, and most fans will agree they haven't made a proper Final Fantasy in the last DECADE, so it's no wonder they haven't been able to grow their fanbase. All this press release tells me is that they're stupid, don't understand what their fans want, and now are simply openly admitting to it rather than pretending and stalling--and that's what they've been doing for the last ten years. Anybody ever wonder where Kingdom Hearts 3 is? News flash: It's on the PSP and it's called Birth by Sleep. What do you want to bet they did this to avoid updating it to the new hardware standards of the Xbox 360 and PS3 as much as humanly possible, opting for the old "safe" standards that they knew from the PS2 instead?

The fact of the matter is that Square hasn't been interested in what they do for a long, long time. Now their head says they want to adopt more "western" ideas. Let's get something straight here, people--we don't WANT them to do that. NOBODY wants them to do that. Nobody's ASKING them to. If I want to play Dragon Age, I'll go and play Dragon Age, not Final Fantasy. I play Final Fantasy for an original, detailed, and fantastical setting and a strong story centered around explicit narrative, character growth, and development, with the main focus being on fairly broad themes but at least exploring different ones between each game's setting. That's the appeal of their franchise, and it's a completely different product from what other, more western RPGs represent. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the way these games are built, except that they have consistently FAILED TO DELIVER for TEN YEARS. That's Duke Nukem Forever levels of fail, folks. All the while they've been pandering--PANDERING, condescendingly at that, to their fanbase rather than actually trying to make good products with mass appeal.

If they change the formula now and try to imitate someone else's style, I can tell you what's going to happen. They'll blow millions on art assets and a new game engine, then release their game to a horrible reception as fans collectively scratch their heads and feel dissatisfied and empty and non-fans continue to ignore the game out of the same reasons they ALWAYS did. Square goes bankrupt, and we really WILL have seen the Final Final Fantasy. I may sound like I'm exaggerating here, especially since they're a fairly major publisher, but crazier things have happened. Square's not as big a company as they seem to be and put themselves in serious financial trouble over a bad MOVIE once upon a time. It's not that far-fetched that the next decade could see them finally bury themselves in a deep grave with poor business decisions.
I agree on most of what you're saying (I gradually lost interest in FF after IX).

Don't you think it's friggin time for SE to try something new? Sure it entails taking risks, but sometimes it's the only way forward. I really hope this SE announcement isn't just another marketing trick and that they really have the balls to "walk the walk".

I'm pretty sure the "westernization" won't be too severe: japs will be japs. It's more likely they'll continue providing us with japanese takes on western ideas, which will be slightly more recognizable this time around.

Anyway, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty damn tired of saving the world from evil for the umpteenth time with my band of uninspiringly flat characters. Ten years have passed, I'm not 12 anymore.
 

hermes

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I will believe it when I see it... Or more like: I will believe it when I don't see it.

Wada saying FF13 the final final fantasy means as much as Miyamoto saying SMB Wii the final Mario game. Kojima once said MGS 2 was going to be the final MGS game. Guess what happened? MGS3, the real final MGS game, and then MGS4, the "this time for real" final MGS game... until MGS5 got announced.

I think Final Fantasy should stop now (or maybe it should have stopped before), but I don't think SE is going to let go its most succesful franchise this side of dragon quest.
 

The DSM

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Its the last JRPG Final Fantasy keep in mind.

They still can use it with diffrent genres.

Maybe an RTS or something?
 

NickCaligo42

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Manji187 said:
Anyway, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty damn tired of saving the world from evil for the umpteenth time with my band of uninspiringly flat characters. Ten years have passed, I'm not 12 anymore.
I'll admit something new is welcome, but "new" doesn't always mean "good," especially coming out of Square. Outside their very small portfolio of ideas they have a really bad understanding of how certain things work. Take Dirge of Cerberus. This was their attempt to--I swear to God--take the principles of Half-Life and take it into RPG form. Wrap your brain around that and then think about what they'd come up with if they tried to adapt something closer to Bioware or Bethesda's style. Granted it's a lot closer to home for them, but they genuinely have a tough time nailing the exact appeal of other peoples' work and tend to oversimplify the crap out of these things. I really don't expect that they'd do well. Who knows? Maybe they'll surprise me. But I seriously doubt it.
 

Gindil

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NickCaligo42 said:
Manji187 said:
Anyway, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty damn tired of saving the world from evil for the umpteenth time with my band of uninspiringly flat characters. Ten years have passed, I'm not 12 anymore.
I'll admit something new is welcome, but "new" doesn't always mean "good," especially coming out of Square. Outside their very small portfolio of ideas they have a really bad understanding of how certain things work. Take Dirge of Cerberus. This was their attempt to--I swear to God--take the principles of Half-Life and take it into RPG form. Wrap your brain around that and then think about what they'd come up with if they tried to adapt something closer to Bioware or Bethesda's style. Granted it's a lot closer to home for them, but they genuinely have a tough time nailing the exact appeal of other peoples' work and tend to oversimplify the crap out of these things. I really don't expect that they'd do well. Who knows? Maybe they'll surprise me. But I seriously doubt it.
Whoa there... Let's remember that they've been around for ~20 years. They've made Rad Racer as well as Ehrgeiz. Some of their innovations were pretty cool such as Tobal or Chocobo's Dungeon. I just wish they could learn to nail down a few more ideas and diversify their staple rather than lean entirely on FF which is nearly what they do.

It's almost like seeing Madden released every year...
 

Cod of War

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I still want them to make a 30th game just so they can call it... Final Fantasy XXX

I'm mature.. hahahaha

I think it's just window dressing. It's the equivalent of Nintendo saying that there will be no more Mario games. There has been a recent trend of milking franchises to their fullest
 

djpsykotiko

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Unlike what a lot of people here are saying, I've mostly enjoyed every Final Fantasy game that I've played. And I've even enjoyed the Final Fantasy movies that they've put out. But maybe I'm just easily entertained, lol.

The same can't really be said about their side projects. I lost interest in Dawn of Mana very quickly. Radiata Stories was alright but didn't have that strong of holding power on me. It seems when they try something new and different, they don't do that well because most of their staff is probably busy working on the more looked-forward-to release of a Final Fantasy title. Maybe they could do better on other games they release if they focused more energy on them, but there's no guarantees on anything.

I'm a firm believer in sticking with what you know. That's where all the best work comes from. The best way to explain it is this: If you try to equip a sword on an archer, they're going to be like "what the hell do you expect me to do with this thing" and just throw it at the enemies in hopes of getting a lucky strike. You try to put a double-handed sword on a thief and they are gonna stagger around and won't be able to hit anything because they can't even lift it off the ground. but give it to a warrior or knight, and they'll slice and dice everything to pieces like in a Slap-Chop infomercial.

With each Final Fantasy release, they try to mix it up to make each one fresh and new. This can be a good or a bad omen for the game, because if they pull it off right, it will be well recieved. But if it's a bit hacky and not followed through very well, everyone's going to attack it on it's shortcomings and lose interest.

I do hope to see more serious Final Fantasy releases in the future. But hopefully they'll eventually get the gist to set their priorities, instead of pumping out spin-offs and badly made side projects like an overly-fertile prostitute.
 

Crimsane

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ITT, we learn that there are two kinds of people: those with reading comprehension, and those without.