The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race

[Lightknight]

I will say that while you can build a gaming machine for relatively cheap, you'd be talking about a machine that would quickly become outdated after a few years as well as one that would not typically allow for peak settings in today's game. But, it could absolutely play today's games as well as tomorrows games for a few years on lower settings.

The important metric here is how PC's and consoles stack up against one another, now how well PC's and their games scale. That "mid-range" desktop PC nowadays will put you on rough parity with the next-generation consoles' graphical capability -- take a look at how little RAM these next-generation consoles have, for example, and tell me they're going to be a serious competitor.

If you care about graphics, load times, and responsiveness.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, no. Consoles are optimized in entirely different ways than pc's. The same specs you see in a console do not line up with a pc tower containing the same hardware. There is architecture in those boxes that really is next-gen technology despite the hardware being average. So you're likely looking at a mid-high range equivalent.

That being said, is there much of a difference between mid and mid-high? Not really. All that matters is that the consoles are finally back in the race graphically and that'll mean that us PC gamers can start using our hardware for more than bragging rights.

Once we see the price we'll also know the relative cost between one machine and another. All I know is I took extra time and waited for the right sales and now all I have to do is slap in another video card to bridge to my first one when the graphics go up. After that, I can bridge a third.

 

[Breywood]

Those kind of people have a pc in the same with other have cars. They want to mod it up, make it faster, louder etc My thoughts are, whats the point in spending all that money just to play the handful of games that need a rig that powerful? An even when they port those games to the 360, like Crysis 2 and Far Cry 3 - the gameplay is still the same. FC3 was good fun, but C2 was crap.....but certain people seem to take graphics over game play.

Also even when a developer brings out a shitty game like Aliens CM, gamers will mod it to make it look better. But why? Now i think modders do some amazing stuff, but they shouldnt need to patch games. I would rather just not buy the game than have to look and hope modders have fixed it. Isnt that just allowing developers to release buggy games?

I like Steam, its great for gaming. I wish they would have worked with MS. Cheaper games are good for every body and i guess there sales are like console gamers buying used. I know there is a steambox in the works, but i dont know who they are aiming to sell it to. PC gamers wont buy it, console gamers will get those games anyway and i doubt non gamers will waste money on it. Unless Steam box is something like an app on a smart tv?

But as ive said to many people. Consoles are for gamers who enjoy playing games. PC's are for people that want top of the range graphic, high def and 60fps.

There are nice, lightweight things you can do with even a cheap PC that you can't on an X Box. Like update your resume and retouch a photo. And while you can surf the net, can you edit a wiki or send an email to someone's gmail account? I also enjoy playing games and none of those things in your last sentence are important to me, they just happen to be 10 years or older because there's so recent few titles that interest me. Then again, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man who has a serious case of rose-colored glasses.

 

[Hyakunin Isshu]

Lord! I don't even know where to start with old Ben Croshaw! For One thing, he keeps boxing in Sony with Microsoft, as if Sony is going to ever block used games. Sony said they won't! Get your facts straight. Sony may or may not do something about used games in the future, but they didn't say anything yet, so stop attacking them, as if they did!

And secondly, he's wrong on every point. From games being more expensive to create, to "we always had backwards compatibility back in my day" He is mostly wrong.

In other words, we really, really, *really* need new consoles, for a fresh new start and for new ideas to be made. Period.

P.S. about that stupid Bertha, what if Bertha got Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U instead? If Bertha wanted to play Mass Effect 1 or 2, then.... well then you would need a PS3/360 to play them all, wouldn't you?

How does one platform change ruin his Assassin's Creed example?

Like... at all?

It's unfortunate that Mass Effect only has 3 on a Nintendo console, but's it's equally as unfortunate that Assassin's Creed DOES have the previous games on the previous console but they can't be played on the new one.

And of those two situations, guess which is easier to fix?

Also, about the new ideas that consoles would allow... so far, I hate all of them. That's a bad sign, don't you think?

1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan )

2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'

3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.

4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!

 

[knox140]

No one's ever made such a convincing argument for PC gaming before. To be honest, I have always been a console gamer, I generally find them easier to use and cheaper, although I do have a crappy laptop for indie titles, but after reading this I'm seriously considering forking out for a decent gaming PC.

 

[Pink Apocalypse]

To me, PC gaming has always been about freedom, about actually owning your system. You can do with a PC whatever you please, no one, including the manufacturers of the parts of your computer, can tell you what you can or cannot do with it. Consoles are cheaper, yes, but that's because you sell your freedom. Whenever PC gamers go on about how good their graphics are or how everyone who plays on a console is a dirty casual, I feel vicarious shame, because all they accomplish is putting people off PC gaming while not actually communicating the most important advantage of the platform.

I may be a bit fundamentalist in this, I would still prefer PC gaming even if it had worse graphics and fewer good games and was five times as expensive and regularly break, because I just can't feel comfortable with tying myself so closely to one manufacturer. The manufacturer of the hardware should not have any say in what software runs on its platform, and it shouldn't get any royalties from sold software either. That's plain and simple vendor lock in, which is anticompetitive.

There have been several times when I've wanted to switch from consoles to PC gaming. Mostly due to Bethesda games, which got me hooked on video games in general. I see the mods done for my beloved Fallout 3 (which got me started), or more recently Skyrim, and I keep thinking, 'I want that'.

But it's absolutely impenetrable. When I have had money to buy something beyond the little laptop I'm currently typing on, getting a straight answer (at Best Buy or wherever) is next to impossible, and I always have the feeling that they're trying to radically up-sell me something beyond my price range. When I've tried to get help online, I got the 'just build it yourself' answer, as if I could just wave some magic wand and do that (see examples in this thread). Attempting to research it led down bottomless pits on incomprehensible specifications, figures, and language I could not understand, which also seemed to change month to month.

Any attempt to get help from the sp-called Glorious Master Race was met with a wall of insufferable superiority, condescending attitude, or point-blank statements: 'you are a fucking casual - go back where you belong'. And so I did. Is it just because I'm so ignorant? Just because I've only known consoles? Or in the case of some really great so-called 'help', just because I have to sit down to pee?

Your post is the very first time I've ever seen someone articulate something that open or inviting.

 

[Sticky]

But it's absolutely impenetrable. When I have had money to buy something beyond little laptop I'm currently typing on, getting a straight answer (at Best Buy or wherever) is next to impossible, and I always have the feeling that they're trying to radically up-sell me something. When I've tried to get help online, I got the 'just build it yourself' answer, as if I could just wave some magic wand and do that (see examples in this thread). Attempting to research it led down bottomless pits on incomprehensible specifications, figures, and language I could not understand, which also seemed to change month to month.

The problem is: those bogged down technical specifications ARE the straight answer. It's the bare-bones facts that one would need in order to determine if it's the right buying choice to make.

You're absolutely right in that it's too much, it's the kind of facts that most people can't use to make informed decisions because most people don't understand what the point of those specifications are. And there's nothing wrong with that, there's nothing wrong with not understanding what to do with those facts.

Also most places that are trying to sell you a pre-built computer are indeed trying to make you buy inferior hardware at an inflated price. It's why the "just build it yourself" answer is so popular. It's also why so many people don't get into PC gaming, it takes lots of time and effort to understand the details which go into a computer.

"Getting help with it" really depends on who you ask. If you ask some place like Toms Hardware, you're going to get a lot of friendly, helpful people. If you ask 4chan or reddit, you're going to get a lot of dickheads who only built a computer to feel superior and run Gentoo, not actually because they have a real use for it.

 

[badgersprite]

And what could be more smug and elitist than having no backwards compatability? Now then. Let's put aside the argument of "the current generation consoles aren't going to magically disappear". Let's imagine someone, we'll call them Bertha, deciding they want to get into gaming, so they buy an Xbox One, and play Assassin's Creed 4. She likes it, and wants to play Assassin's Creed 1-3 as well. What do we say to her? "You can't. All the previous installments of the story that provide the necessary background, all the experiences and highs and lows of the series thus far, none of that matters. Nothing that was made before this console matters, because we found a way to make games slightly prettier. And that alone, sight unseen, makes our paltry handful of bland launch titles worth more than the entire history of gaming put together. You should have played them in the last generation." And then Bertha explains she wasn't into gaming around the time of the last generation, and everyone laughs at her for being a noob.

A+ point right here.

If the Xbone is intended to appeal to a mainstream audience who doesn't usually play games, as I've heard so many people say it is (which is going to fail for a whole lot of reasons but let's pretend it succeeds), it's really kind of stupid to think that they'll shell out money for the latest installment of Assassin's Creed or what have you when they now have absolutely no ability to play those old titles which are cheaper and essential for understanding what the hell is going on in the story.

Every video game console is going to be quite a number of people's first consoles. Consoles shouldn't alienate them from gaming; one of the whole advantages of consoles is that they were one of the quickest and easiest methods for non-gamers to approach games. Are we seriously going to have these major companies running on the assumption that there will be no new gamers?

At least in theory it's still possible that you could get the Playstation versions of past generation games streaming on Gaikai or whatever, but I'm not totally convinced that the PS4 won't shoot itself in the foot on this point before release.

 

[ResonanceSD]

The Creator Speaks! AND I LISTEN!!

I really wonder if Microsoft isn't doing all this shit with the Xbone so that they can have the easy excuse of "We're discontinuing our console gaming department due to poor sales of our last console." or not. It really seems like with all the mixed messages and that half-ass announcement makes it look like their heart really isn't in it anymore and that may be for the best for Microsoft as a whole.

^Why would they launch a console they wanted to fail? They could just..you know, NOT release the console.

No it's still not worth it Yahtzee. Not when it costs thousands of dollars for a man to accomplish. Shame on you and everyone who agrees with this. I'd like my games to be affordable without having to buy a bunch of random pieces that cost the price of an actual console.

Toms Hardware routinely build gaming pc's that cost less than $1k

Um... Little point out. The term "Master Race" comes from racism, not elitism. Two different things, you know.

Um... Little point out. The term "Master Race" comes from racism, not elitism. Two different things, you know.

Wrong! In this context, it comes from this.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

I'm still holding out for Sony to use this Microsoft disaster to their advantage and give us all the functions that Microsoft is holding hostage. I'm not sure how blindly optimistic that will be, but hey, it's possible. I wasn't frothing at the bit to run off and buy the Xbone anyway, having never owned either of it's predecessors, but I wouldn't dismiss buying one, as long as the titles were good. Which is really all I care about in my console. Though, I could do with a new Laptop. This one is a bit out of date, and having some issues. Regardless, it would be a few years before I bought any new console, but I might need to fix or supplant this computer by year's end. Whether or not the pooch is screwed for those of us who prefer to mix class levels remains to be seen by then.

 

[BrotherRool]

Whilst that is true we also have to keep something else in mind. These are all emulators made by people working from the outside in. It basically involved designing simulated consoles that run the same as the physical ones. A program made by the people with direct access to the very design documents might find someway to make a better working version.

Although with things like the PS3 the problem is quite clear. The goddamned Cell architecture. However the 360? That should not be such a big deal for the people that made it or heck if they wanted to they could hire hackers and coders from the community to build an emulator for next to nothing compared to professional techmonkeys.

To be fair, I'm mainly thinking of the PS4 because that's the one I'm going to buy =D I think it's less Sony being elitest, and more Sony screwing up incredibly with the PS3, it's impressive given that the PS2 was the hardest to design for in it's generation that they managed to step it up a notch again with the PS3.

The 360 I'm more surprised with, I guess they're changing layouts too, so it's not an easy task and it probably would need a great deal more power than the 360 itself had, but they might have found a way and the One does have a great deal more power.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, no. Consoles are optimized in entirely different ways than pc's. The same specs you see in a console do not line up with a pc tower containing the same hardware. There is architecture in those boxes that really is next-gen technology despite the hardware being average. So you're likely looking at a mid-high range equivalent.

If you want to talk about the consoles' processing ability, sure. The Wii U's 1GB of available RAM, the Xbone's 5GB, and the PS4's 8GB of integrated memory, isn't going to stretch very far especially for the latter two when Sony and Microsoft are talking a standard of 4KP resolution. That's fine now, but it's going to be a serious constraint moving forward compared to PC's, especially as PC's operating systems are trending towards greater optimization and already have a standard of 9-10GB of total RAM.

 

[bjj hero]

And shame on you for not actually knowing how much it costs, never taking the time to research it, and instead spouting nonsense that you parrot from other people who also know as little as you do about the subject.

No really, without going to Newegg or googling what an IBM workstation costs, how much do you think it costs to make a good gaming PC from the ground up? I want to hear this one.

Its easy to understand when the post following yours has the poster spending £1200 on his rig (thats $1800 at current exchange rate) and the next post says he spent $1200 on his current PC. He then goes on to say that you can now buy a "passable gaming computer" for "only" $700.

Can you see why people may feel barred from the club when they see an xbox 360 on the shelf for $120?

 

[1337mokro]

The 360 I'm more surprised with, I guess they're changing layouts too, so it's not an easy task and it probably would need a great deal more power than the 360 itself had, but they might have found a way and the One does have a great deal more power.

I guess it wasn't the Chosen One

Just call it the XBone, because that is what it will be trying to do to you for the next few years. However we will probably have to just wait and see though the glorious response of "Backwards compatibility is truly backwards" pretty much put a giant hole in that expectation.

Now if you will excuse me I have to upgrade my computer again the hardware just got outdated again

 

[BrotherRool]

However we will probably have to just wait and see though the glorious response of "Backwards compatibility is truly backwards" pretty much put a giant hole in that expectation.

That press conference really was a thing of beauty, they managed to create anti-soundbites. I don't know what world they were on when they possibly thought saying something like that was a good idea. If you just say 'It could be reasonably priced and easy to develop or backwards compatible but not all three' people will understand that. You can't tell people straight up that they're wrong for wanting something and expect them to react positively.

 

[Stryc9]

The Creator Speaks! AND I LISTEN!!

I really wonder if Microsoft isn't doing all this shit with the Xbone so that they can have the easy excuse of "We're discontinuing our console gaming department due to poor sales of our last console." or not. It really seems like with all the mixed messages and that half-ass announcement makes it look like their heart really isn't in it anymore and that may be for the best for Microsoft as a whole.

^Why would they launch a console they wanted to fail? They could just..you know, NOT release the console.

How about they're going to try and pass this bullshit and if it sells that's great and if it doesn't they have a ready made excuse to bow out of the market?

No it's still not worth it Yahtzee. Not when it costs thousands of dollars for a man to accomplish. Shame on you and everyone who agrees with this. I'd like my games to be affordable without having to buy a bunch of random pieces that cost the price of an actual console.

This is a common misconception among people that don't really PC game that much. Not every gaming PC has to be built to run all of the games with the graphics settings maxed out!! The people that believe that are the ones that tend to be "PC Gaming Master Race" assholes. I could go to Newegg right now and put together a PC that would serve all of my needs for around $600-$700. Yes that is more than a console but I'll be doing more far more with it than I would be with a console so the extra cost is sort of justified.

 

[1337mokro]

However we will probably have to just wait and see though the glorious response of "Backwards compatibility is truly backwards" pretty much put a giant hole in that expectation.

That press conference really was a thing of beauty, they managed to create anti-soundbites. I don't know what world they were on when they possibly thought saying something like that was a good idea. If you just say 'It could be reasonably priced and easy to develop or backwards compatible but not all three' people will understand that. You can't tell people straight up that they're wrong for wanting something and expect them to react positively.

"We understand that backwards compatibility is something people desire. Therefore we have set up a service that allows you to order backwards compatible versions directly from us. Though fair warning the extra hardware required for backwards compatibility will increase the cost and delivery time may be slow as they are built only after the order has come in. We however think that offering this option to those interested in backwards compatibility whilst simultaneously offering the average consumer a cheaper product can appease both parties."

Of course it's not going to fucking please them. People will ***** and moan but right there you have a situation where the people that want it can get it. Now call me a PC Elitist but I am of the opinion that if I want to stick a giant GPU in it I should be able to stick a giant GPU in it.

Heck they could have done the Jaguar thing.

"For those who want to play their old games on their Xbone we have developed this extension. You can buy it separately to play old Xbox and 360 games it plugs right into your Xbone and works in unison thus allowing us to shave down the cost of the Xube to just 50$! We only produced a limited amount to test the market for these devices so if the response is strong enough we might make more."

I always wonder why giant corporations would rather have people conform to their desires than for example use a sleazy marketing tactic to sell even more cheap crap to the masses.

 

[Dragonpit]

You can?t take it back, it?s ours now.

I just upgraded with a Samsung 256GB SSD and I?m going to upgrade my graphics card to a GTX 770 awaiting the arrival of my Oculus Rift soon.

I?m also looking forward to 4K monitors coming up and you can?t stop me!

You know if those things were somehow tipped over, there'd be a domino effect, right?

 

[Abomination]

I'm looking really forward to the day when someone finally manages to get an XBox 360/PS3 emulator running.

When the XBone and PS4 release stores with 360s and PS3s will want to get rid of them ASAP, dropping the price significantly and emulator designers will have a lot of cheaper toys to play with. I think the two stumbling blocks for making a PS3 or Xbox360 emulator is the Pandoras Box type of programming that went on with them and how fiddling too much will brick the system. When systems are cheaper trial-and-error reverse engineering will not be such a financially daunting process.

 

[Scars Unseen]

To me, PC gaming has always been about freedom, about actually owning your system. You can do with a PC whatever you please, no one, including the manufacturers of the parts of your computer, can tell you what you can or cannot do with it. Consoles are cheaper, yes, but that's because you sell your freedom. Whenever PC gamers go on about how good their graphics are or how everyone who plays on a console is a dirty casual, I feel vicarious shame, because all they accomplish is putting people off PC gaming while not actually communicating the most important advantage of the platform.

I may be a bit fundamentalist in this, I would still prefer PC gaming even if it had worse graphics and fewer good games and was five times as expensive and regularly break, because I just can't feel comfortable with tying myself so closely to one manufacturer. The manufacturer of the hardware should not have any say in what software runs on its platform, and it shouldn't get any royalties from sold software either. That's plain and simple vendor lock in, which is anticompetitive.

There have been several times when I've wanted to switch from consoles to PC gaming. Mostly due to Bethesda games, which got me hooked on video games in general. I see the mods done for my beloved Fallout 3 (which got me started), or more recently Skyrim, and I keep thinking, 'I want that'.

But it's absolutely impenetrable. When I have had money to buy something beyond the little laptop I'm currently typing on, getting a straight answer (at Best Buy or wherever) is next to impossible, and I always have the feeling that they're trying to radically up-sell me something beyond my price range. When I've tried to get help online, I got the 'just build it yourself' answer, as if I could just wave some magic wand and do that (see examples in this thread). Attempting to research it led down bottomless pits on incomprehensible specifications, figures, and language I could not understand, which also seemed to change month to month.

Any attempt to get help from the sp-called Glorious Master Race was met with a wall of insufferable superiority, condescending attitude, or point-blank statements: 'you are a fucking casual - go back where you belong'. And so I did. Is it just because I'm so ignorant? Just because I've only known consoles? Or in the case of some really great so-called 'help', just because I have to sit down to pee?

Your post is the very first time I've ever seen someone articulate something that open or inviting.

Honestly, there are three real options for you to get into PC gaming:

1) Buy a pre-built brand name gaming PC - this is arguably the worst option, as you'll be spending more money for less performance, but it comes with warranty, so there's that(if you can stomach talking to phone tech support if things go wrong).

2) Learn the technobabble surrounding the arcane art of PC building and make one yourself - Some people will help you learn, but there is some childish elitism you have to ignore, as well as the usual RTFF(read the fucking forum) that you get in any DIY hobby. So probably a no go unless you were already interested in learning about it. But it is the best way to the most bang for your buck.

3) Find a friend that knows how to build a PC and have him make one for you - This is the easiest option that will get you a good PC for a reasonable amount of money(insofar as a gaming PC's price is ever reasonable). Give him a budget to work with, and he'll get you something that will get the job done. If you hear questions like "AMD or Nvidia," just respond with "whatever you think works best," as it doesn't really matter that much anyway. If you're paying for the parts, a friend will usually be willing to build it for a pizza bribe.