I was going to reply to your comment in a more wordy fashion, but someone has already done. I think you should consider watching this video.Lord_Gremlin said:
The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I don't know about you guys, but once I bought the gaming PC I rarely change anything with it.
After it's run its course, 2-5 years, give or take, I buy a completely new set.
Sure, it costs me between 700-1000?, but if I bought a new console every 6 years, paying, what, 500-600? for a PS3, for example, plus a better television set, plus peripherals, plus extra controlers, plus a constantly higher game price,
......
I just think it averages out.
As it is known to PC builders: Never change a running system. Only if absolutely necessary.
Oh, and when I built that new PC?
Chances are I can salvage parts of the old one, like hard drives, power supply pack, and the tower case (Even though mine doesn't have any pretentious shiny lights. I just wanted to point that out.).
After it's run its course, 2-5 years, give or take, I buy a completely new set.
Sure, it costs me between 700-1000?, but if I bought a new console every 6 years, paying, what, 500-600? for a PS3, for example, plus a better television set, plus peripherals, plus extra controlers, plus a constantly higher game price,
......
I just think it averages out.
As it is known to PC builders: Never change a running system. Only if absolutely necessary.
Oh, and when I built that new PC?
Chances are I can salvage parts of the old one, like hard drives, power supply pack, and the tower case (Even though mine doesn't have any pretentious shiny lights. I just wanted to point that out.).
I feel the same way. I was always a console scrub. Steam moved me over to PC a bit more, what with it's *GASP* reasonable prices. Now, I still like the feel of a controller in my hands and sofa under my back, but now consoles are getting less and less dedicated to gaming, more and more online for reasons I never asked for, they're essentially turning themselves into PCs. Very very crap PCs. So I'm thinking, well fuck you Microsoft, if you want me to buy a PC then I may as well go all the way. So now I do most of by gaming on PC, and it's the console market that drove me to do so.
I tend to upgrade RAM memory once during a 4-year PC lifetime. Quick, no-fuss upgrade. Also, buy new HDDs when the ones I'm using are full to the brim. Usually by the time I upgrade to a new PC, the tower case is all rusted, so I buy a new one. Other than that, yeah, 3 to 5 years on a build, then pass it on to whoever wants it (usually donate it to my mother or some other family member), and buy a new one. The monitor is a separate entity, and may or may not be upgraded along with the PC.Sergey Sund said:
The very fact that "PC master race" was taken as a badge of honor should be a fairly clear indication that the worst thing about PC gaming is PC gamers. inb4 the "you just hatin" dismissal: I'm typing this on a nice(-ish. still wont run Farcry 3 worth shit) I just don't post my specs everywhere because unlike some people I don't need to try and convince others to bask in the magnificence of my massive E-peen and marvel at my disposable income.
Just saying (though the parts were on sale) I built a pc for $414 [http://pcpartpicker.com/p/I0nL] (when things were more on sale) that runs pretty much any game near max at 40+ fps. Well. It was 414 (now 460$) after rebate (I was too lazy to get all the rebates).
Not to mention the graphics card usually comes with one or two free new games.
So PC gaming really isn't all that expensive at all. Not to mention that you are going to have a computer anyways for things like word processing, photo editing, and various tasks. Even tablets usually need a computer to connect to.
So lets assume a 150$ pc for your everyday tasks. 550$ to match the ps4-150 for what you would normally spend on a computer=$400. Same price as what a ps4 is predicted to cost. Not only that but you get a free game or two from it and also access to almost every pc game.
If you don't already have access to an operating system it will cost more though. But again you would be paying for that anyways.
If it matches the specs for the ps4, it means most likely it will last the entire generation of next gen, so it will last 5-6 years.
Of course, pc gaming will always be more expensive gaming than buying an old console at a yard sale with games. There consoles will have an advantage.
But it isn't as expensive as people think at all. Not to mention when you bring in things like Good old games, steam sales and free to play games you end up spending less over time due to the software costing less.
Not to mention the graphics card usually comes with one or two free new games.
So PC gaming really isn't all that expensive at all. Not to mention that you are going to have a computer anyways for things like word processing, photo editing, and various tasks. Even tablets usually need a computer to connect to.
So lets assume a 150$ pc for your everyday tasks. 550$ to match the ps4-150 for what you would normally spend on a computer=$400. Same price as what a ps4 is predicted to cost. Not only that but you get a free game or two from it and also access to almost every pc game.
If you don't already have access to an operating system it will cost more though. But again you would be paying for that anyways.
If it matches the specs for the ps4, it means most likely it will last the entire generation of next gen, so it will last 5-6 years.
Of course, pc gaming will always be more expensive gaming than buying an old console at a yard sale with games. There consoles will have an advantage.
But it isn't as expensive as people think at all. Not to mention when you bring in things like Good old games, steam sales and free to play games you end up spending less over time due to the software costing less.
There fixed it for you. Sony does not require online nor stop used game markets. As for previous installments of games, their hands are tied by the way technology works, the small pain now will make it easier next gen and ensure backwards comparability. An unfortunate issue due to the cell processor the PS3 used.Scow2 said:
Even better, Maximum PC frequently lets people know how to build gaming PCs that cost anywhere between 400 and 650 bones. It's not gonna have the best stuff in it, but it'll more than facilitate you if you happen to be jonesin' for some PC gaming action.ResonanceSD said:
While I've had my reserves with PC gaming (largely because I play a lot of fighters and action games, and I can barely use a keyboard to type let alone play a fucking game), the upcoming console gen is making me take a nice long look at exactly why I built my rig the way I did (pretty expensive). Let's just say I regret overlooking it for so long.
I still love my consoles though, and I feel that we're all going to be getting a lot more intimate with each other by this time next year.
I prefer settings and shit to have control of, the cookie cutter approach SUCKS.
With so little you can do so much more than with a console thats locked up and bleeds you dry for games that become 30$ after 6 months.....
I'm still waiting on the 3Ds to hook up to a tv so I can enjoy it, least the 2nd vita revision dose so I hear.
With so little you can do so much more than with a console thats locked up and bleeds you dry for games that become 30$ after 6 months.....
I'm still waiting on the 3Ds to hook up to a tv so I can enjoy it, least the 2nd vita revision dose so I hear.
1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?Hyakunin Isshu said:lacktheknack said:
1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan)
2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'
3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.
4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!
2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.
As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.
Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/
It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).
3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.
This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?
4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.
Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.
Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.
XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.
Etc, etc.
You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.
Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.
At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.
@lacktheknack: I've never understood the argument that "a bit of experimentation" is a bad thing. Chances are its just a matter of reading the readme again or even accessing the wellspring of knowledge and guides on the internet. Consoles of all stripes engaged in exactly that kind of activity at one stage or another, it may just have been me being a little slow but I often had trouble picking up on the nuances of certain game mechanics without reading through the manual that came with said game.
The "cost" of PC's is repeatedly mentioned here. I'm entirely certain that I could, right now, order and build a PC that would run (random example) Tomb Raider as well as it runs on an Xbox360 for around 400euro. The price difference isn't that broad, and when you consider that you can use a PC for things other than what Microsoft allows you to (and access MP without paying a subscription fee) it easily balances out.
The "cost" of PC's is repeatedly mentioned here. I'm entirely certain that I could, right now, order and build a PC that would run (random example) Tomb Raider as well as it runs on an Xbox360 for around 400euro. The price difference isn't that broad, and when you consider that you can use a PC for things other than what Microsoft allows you to (and access MP without paying a subscription fee) it easily balances out.
I think takfar on page four deserves a bleedin' medal. Now that is what I want to see! Straight to the point and friendly help! I'm going to paste that into a note for the harrowing days when I need to replace my old Comrade Box.
Thing is, even if Microsoft certainly has been eager to help, it wasn't the rapidly diminishing perks of console gaming that made me stick to PC. It was all the weird little titles that the console publishers wouldn't have given the time of day to. Like Operation Flashpoint, and its true heir, the ArmA-series. Or the ridiculously complex titles Paradox keep making. Playing PC, to me, means playing a fascinating, rough gem some lone person, somewhere, have been lovingly coding and patching for years. Often available for free, or for a very reasonable price. Not to mention the mods, which even making wading through the refuse to find the ones you like all worth it.
It's certainly more problematic and fiddly than console gaming, but to me, it's well worth the effort.
Now, a good, or even great, PC might be discouragingly expensive, but if you're willing to settle for the next best, I'd say you can come off fairly cheaply. And remember that even the cheapest PC you could find will still have alot of utility outside gaming.
Thing is, even if Microsoft certainly has been eager to help, it wasn't the rapidly diminishing perks of console gaming that made me stick to PC. It was all the weird little titles that the console publishers wouldn't have given the time of day to. Like Operation Flashpoint, and its true heir, the ArmA-series. Or the ridiculously complex titles Paradox keep making. Playing PC, to me, means playing a fascinating, rough gem some lone person, somewhere, have been lovingly coding and patching for years. Often available for free, or for a very reasonable price. Not to mention the mods, which even making wading through the refuse to find the ones you like all worth it.
It's certainly more problematic and fiddly than console gaming, but to me, it's well worth the effort.
Now, a good, or even great, PC might be discouragingly expensive, but if you're willing to settle for the next best, I'd say you can come off fairly cheaply. And remember that even the cheapest PC you could find will still have alot of utility outside gaming.
I see the title and think "You called...?" expecting some hate for being an arrogant neckbeard or something. Not saying I don't deserve some of that (minus the neckbeard part, I'm skinny and prefer to keep my beard on my face), I just found the PC experience, as someone who console gamed almost all of his life was a million times better, so much though that I'm a little "screw you! It's better!" when it comes to the PC/Console discussion. Then I saw it was an article by Yahtzee.
And he was saying some very true things...
And he was saying some very true things...
I just learned earlier in this thread that some console players don't want to change to PC because of freaking DRIVERS.PuckFuppet said:
If you can't even treat DRIVERS (SERIOUSLY, DRIVERS) as neutral things, you'll have to watch your wording and context with "a little experimentation", that's for damn sure.
I just realized with this article: Microsoft execs looked at Abercrombie & Fitch's business model and went "That's a good idea. Let's do it!"
>GFX card has disc/USB marked "DRIVERS/INSTALL GUIDE"lacktheknack said:
>Access disc/USB
>Auto-run opens splash window with "INSTALL DRIVERS" as option
>Click "INSTALL DRIVERS"
>Success
>Read INSTALL GUIDE
>Discover links to driver update page
>Download/Install as needed
Thing is I remember when I first got my Xbox360, had to play Halo 4, I spent a good four hours trying to figure out why I couldn't find the "skip" option on half of what it wanted me to do. Why do I need an Xbox Arcade Avatar? Why is this required for me to play my game? I have to subscribe to a digital service to play online? I already have an internet connection...
I have, if not for the sake of upgrading itself, I've had to do it when one part goes bad and I have to buy a replacement. I've been building PCs since 2006 and since then I've just about had to replace EVERYTHING to keep the rig upgaded and - most of all - working!Yellowbeard said:
-replaced a case 1x
-replaced a motherboad 1x
-replaced Ram 3x
-replaced processor 1x
-replaced the power sourse 2x
-replaced the hard drive 1x
-replaced graphics card 2x
Only thing - up till now - I haven't replaced that remains from my old 2006 model is the disc player, but that's gone bad too now finally... guess it's time to replace that too. :/
Pretty much.PuckFuppet said:
If someone has decided that they straight-up don't want to switch, they'll say the silliest, pettiest things to avoid switching.