What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal to enjoy games regardless of the device at hand. I still remember having both an N64 and a PSX, admittedly console generations lasted a little longer then so there was more time to adapt, while equally enjoying the games I had for both.lacktheknack said:
Thanks! I based that on my own PC-building experience, but you could find some even more in-depth info on sites like maximum PC and tom's hardware, as mentioned by other posters. Here's a couple links:Muspelheim said:
Yes, I couldn't live without Total War games and the games by Paradox, especially the Europa Universalis/Victoria/Crusader Knights series (OK, i could probably *live*, but you get my point). And I spent a couple hundred hours last year on ArmA (especially DayZ) and Guild Wars 2, both of which can't be played on consoles. There's just a lof of games that can only work on PC, and don't get me started on how superior Mouse+keyboard is to double-analog when controlling FPS games.Muspelheim said:
Yes, it can be more problematic (but not by much if you buy good parts) getting everything running with all games, and it's more expensive when you start, but you get so much more customizable content, fast game updates, free and discounted game content, etc, that it is certainly worth it.Muspelheim said:
(sigh) Oy vey!lacktheknack said:1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?Hyakunin Isshu said:lacktheknack said:
1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan)
2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'
3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.
4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!
2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.
As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.
Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/
It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).
3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.
This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?
4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.
Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.
Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.
XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.
Etc, etc.
You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.
Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.
At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.
My 2003 build (Athlon 2000, a present to myself from my first proper job) lasted me to 2011 with:80sboy said:
No, I'm willing to talk later.Hyakunin Isshu said:(sigh) Oy vey!lacktheknack said:1. You kind of utterly failed to get that point across in the first point. In fact, you berated him for being "wrong on every point". If you say he's wrong on every point, and ALSO that he's made it into a two-sided issue... then doesn't that mean that you're ALSO making it a two-sided issue, just from the other side?Hyakunin Isshu said:lacktheknack said:
1. My point is: Ben Croshaw is trying to make this into a black & white situation. Them vs us. Evil vs good. It's more gray then that. ("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -Obi-Wan
2. Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube and many, many more consoles didn't have backwards compatibility. Heck, My brother sold the Nes before I could ever get to play Megaman 4, 5, or 6. So I got bigger problems then backwards compatibility. Like not able to play my old console at all. And you know what? Some of my old games won't play on the newer windows! Want to play X-COM? Well too bad! because now you have to re-buy them from a site all over again! 'Why should I re-buy? I payed for it once!'
3. When talking about Halo 4, Ben Croshaw seemed to have a problem with it being a '4'.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10063-How-to-Title-Your-Stupid-Sequel
What the Heck?! But whatever his dumn point was, doesn't it go for the other games as well? Like playing Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 4, Megaman X4, Megaman 7, MGS4, or Dune 2 for the first time without playing the games before? If you really want to play the other games that came before, then won't you need a way to play the old games? Like getting the old consoles? I can't see why Ben Croshaw is acting like this is a new thing! If you started Assassin's Creed by playing Assassin's Creed IV, then it's your own fault for buying a game that has a *4* in it. Either buy the old consoles, or wait for Assassin's Creed 5.
4. About the 'new ideas', what I meant was now we may see new and old genres coming back. Like RTS, 4X, Simulation and more. There was some great games on this Gen that couldn't have *never* been made for the Last-Gen, like Red Faction: Guerrilla, Dead Rising, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, From Dust, Hydrophobia, Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and many more. Just think of all the crazy new gameplay ideas we can do in the Next-Gen!
2. It's understandable if a console iteration changes absolutely EVERYTHING, so it can't be backward-compatible. (Where do you jam the Mario 64 cartridge in a Gamecube?) However, when the Gamecube gave way to the Wii, even though the controller, hardware, software and much else changed, it still took the same input (tiny disc) and lo and behold, it was backwards compatible. However, the Xbox 360 -> Xbox 1 and PS3 -> PS4 changes only hardware and software. There's no bloody reason they can't have a simple architecture emulator on it to run the old media (I have several emulators OPEN right now, they're common and not excessively hard to make). NONE.
As for X-COM, lrn2DosBox. Seriously. If you buy X-COM from gog.com, all they give you is an exact copy of the original physical copy wrapped up with a DosBox emulator.
Here, it's right here: http://www.dosbox.com/
It requires a bit of experimentation, but that's the one downside to it being free (and if you're of a certain disposition, getting the game working is fun and rewarding in and of itself).
3. It's not a new thing, but it still sucks, especially because there's no bloody reason for it. I understand if I play FFVII, and find out that I have to play the first one on an NES (you don't anymore, by the way, you can get it on your phone). However, imagine if you bought a sequel on a PC that ran Windows 7, and found out that the first game would ONLY run on Windows XP, despite not actually relying on XP-specific features. This would be annoying enough. What makes it worse is that 64 bit Windows 7 -> 32 bit Windows XP emulators exist (I have one), but they won't do an Xbox One -> Xbox 360 emulator.
This leaves the question hanging: WHY NOT?
4. Just to show you how utterly lost you are, Half Life 2 WAS last-gen.
Furthermore, what's so special about games like Portal? Portal used the idea of "set two locations, touch one, teleport to the other". This was based off a pretty crappy student project. Furthermore, there's a flash game based on Portal, which is the technological equivalent of an early PS1. They didn't need the Xbox hardware they used, and they most certainly didn't need the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware they used to add the various gels and extra character they added to Portal 2.
Also, there's nothing inherently excellent about your other examples that are exclusive to this gen. Red Faction's first game, for instance, was released in 2001 on early PS2 hardware. The idea of "alter the landscape" was already in effect. Dead Rising just uses lots of NPCs and creative weaponizing that isn't inherent to the hardware. Every cool weapon combo or use was programmed in individually, which is how it's been done since video game characters began picking up items. And while newer hardware was needed to allow for higher-res models in large groups, it's hardly a new idea.
XCOM: Enemy Unknown is NOT a new idea. You damn well know this, seeing how you were saying that you can't play the first X-COM mere paragraphs ago.
Etc, etc.
You wanna know what kind of cool new ideas the new consoles from Sony and Microsoft CAN achieve? They can do better graphics and AI. That's... more or less all. And the AI isn't even all that useful outside of 4X, RTS and simulation games, which the consoles aren't going to have, because they haven't changed the controller that was stopping those genres in the first place.
Look, I'm all for new consoles that do cool things, but currently, what Xbox One is offering me is a platter of social networking integrated features, a cable box, and a permanent spy camera with none of the good stuff that you seem to think it will manage. There's currently NO reason to buy one any more than I would buy a new cable box with the words "CONTAINS UNCONTROLLABLE CAMERA FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE" plastered on it. Sony doesn't seem to have any cool new things up the chute either.
At least the Wii U is backwards compatible with the Wii and is actually trying a REAL attempt at innovation, but at this point, Yahtzee's pretty damn justified in thinking that PC gaming is an avenue he should try out again.
Look, You haven't changed my mind, even a bit.
What I said wasn't clear enough, but it still stands. Like for one (just one) example, Half-life 2 can in some way run on the "Last-Gen", but *only* on the first xbox. It can NOT run on the Gamecube, and it can NOT run on the PS2. And the graphics was A *lot* less better, and it even had frame-rate problems.
Now I can go over everything else, but I don't want to. Maybe I'll come back after a few days, but I think it's pointless now. Question is, are you still willing to talk then? Because if not,then this will end now, and I have to say good bye.
Yeah, mine just moved around cities (Manchester -> Stoke -> London). I started out less than 400 yards from the beach, but that was well before I built a PC.takfar said:
There's no conspiracy theory here, I'll make this as plain as I possibly I can. I don't think Microsoft really gives a shit if the Xbone does well or not. Either it does and they make yet another mountain of money, or it doesn't and they say, "Well, that didn't go very well and we're done." They've already proven they're willing to do exactly that, when's the last time Microsoft announced a new Zune?ResonanceSD said:
Although that makes sense from the perspective of Microsoft as a single entity, it doesn't really work as well in terms of Microsoft as a collection of small entities.Stryc9 said:
Depends on which version of Civ2 you have.Kinitawowi said:
Similar problem, I see the lack of AA on console games. The poor definition makes me strain my eyes to hurting point, monitors are just more crisp. Combine that with unresponsive controllers, horrible FoV, and aforementioned crappy frame rate which makes it feel even MORE unresponsive.. Consoles, for me, are just a test of patience, I can't/don't enjoy playing anything on them.neppakyo said:
This.SupahGamuh said:
30 FPS is disgusting. And yeah, no AA is a massive boner-killer. Most console games render at pitifully low resolutions and then upscale each frame in the hopes that you're sitting back from the TV and won't notice. That's why it looks disgusting if you hook a console up to a 1080p monitor and play with your face as close to it as it would be with a PC.Elate said: