The Great Final Fantasy Retrospective - Let's Mosey

CriticalGaming

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Non-native English speaker and/or other impairments would be my guess. Also it's kind of rude and hasn't been directly addressed to them so they probably thought it was better off ignored.
I mean if you aren't a bot, and people suspect you are a bot it seems like a simple thing to reply and go, "No not a bot, just new to the site" Or something. Because a lot of the responses start sort of on topic, but then go on rants that make no sense at all. Which is why it reads like an automatically generated post based on a program putting together keys words from whatever thread it happens to reply it. It also doesn't reply directly to any posts, it just writes things in a topic based loosely off what has appeared in the thread, like Phantasy Star which was pages ago when that was last mentioned.

If it's not a bot, it's doing a very good impression of one.
 

Drathnoxis

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I mean if you aren't a bot, and people suspect you are a bot it seems like a simple thing to reply and go, "No not a bot, just new to the site" Or something. Because a lot of the responses start sort of on topic, but then go on rants that make no sense at all. Which is why it reads like an automatically generated post based on a program putting together keys words from whatever thread it happens to reply it. It also doesn't reply directly to any posts, it just writes things in a topic based loosely off what has appeared in the thread, like Phantasy Star which was pages ago when that was last mentioned.

If it's not a bot, it's doing a very good impression of one.
Look at their posts in funny events in anti-woke world, they make direct responses there.
 

Eacaraxe

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I stated in my post about 14 that pacing was a problem pretty consistently throughout the game. This is more because the game is an MMO and they need to drag shit out in order to make people subscribe for longer, that's the nature of the beast tbh.
There is, however, a marked difference between filler content and poor story pacing, and rarely can players tell the difference or see the forest for the trees. One of the most-maligned portions of the game in the 2.0 MSQ was the Company of Heroes quest chain in the lead-up to Titan; players facerolled through it, didn't pay attention, and immediately wiped to Titan wondering what the hell just happened. Few noticed that silly "filler content" chain was showcasing Titan's mechanics individually for players to recognize and counter in a controlled, solo environment, while Brayflox's Longstop happened near its end for players to have the chance to gear up before Titan.

It was one of the better examples of game design in 2.0 and a fantastic example of ludonarrative harmony; unfortunately, players just weren't paying attention and listening (or simply weren't smart enough to listen) to what the game had to say.

The issue with the game's MSQ prior to 5.x, was the dev team's reluctance to simply award enough experience per MSQ quest directly related to the game's story, to keep pace with level requirements. Which meant a ton of fetch and ferry quests. By Shadowbringers, the dev team figured out players were saving side quests until after the MSQ for a reason and weren't going to stop, and finally decided to just lean into it.

If you didn't like the gameplay, how did you sit through all those expansions?
Used to. Back when jobs had higher degrees of hybridization, roles were (slightly) less strict, and job mechanics weren't borderline-compulsive rotation-fests meaning players had to be overall wittier to do well.

Dragoon armor and self-sustain got put to use because they were good off-tanks for picks and adds, in an environment with lots of ranged mobs and spread-apart packs that were harder for a tank to corral and control. It was actually preferable to let black mage or summoner pick up certain caster mobs, because their magic defense and defensive cooldowns were superior to warrior's/paladin's under those circumstances. Paladins could off- and emergency-heal with Clemency, warriors were one of the best single-target DPS in the game, and dark knights had an insane bag of tricks. Healers could stance dance and deal pretty significant damage; scholar was bar none the best AE DPS in the game when played correctly (and their healing mechanics played into this DPS sub-role). Astrologians were utility in every sense of the word, and no one cared they had marginally lower healing throughput because card buffs were good.

In short, it actually felt like a genuine, multiplayer, Final Fantasy game. Even in the course of a single dungeon, players could expect to fluctuate between multiple roles depending which instance they were in and what they were playing, had to stay on their toes to adapt to circumstances (and other players' strengths/weaknesses), and never really felt pigeonholed or locked into the holy trinity unless doing static/progression content.

Then Stormblood came out, and the dev team started leaning hard into the holy trinity for expedience. Job mechanics started getting standardized, and the game became less about staying on your toes and adaptive to encounters, and increasingly about getting your rotations right and timing DPS windows. Fun little quirks like scholar DPS being dominant on hall trash or dragoons being ranged mob "gankers" went away, sustain (for most classes) got nerfed, and all DPS got (more or less) standardized AE rotations. One of the only vestiges of freer-form play was red mage, where it was better for red mage to heal on hall trash while the healer DPS'ed; healers simply had better and higher-damage AE toolkits than red mages, and Vercure's efficiency compared to Cure II, Benefic II, and Adlo was off the charts.

Nowadays, the game play is just that of a generic, holy trinity-bound, fantasy MMO. Compared to what it used to be, it's actually pretty sad.
 

CriticalGaming

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So you're saying it got too WoWed lol.

I can feel you to an extent. However i do think that players tend to overvalue complexity for conplexity's sake. The problem with over complex classes is it raises the skill bar too high for new players which pushes new people away and if you push new people away that then becomes the begining of the death of your game.

Additionally ff14 falls into a console limitation in which an over complex rotation simply becomes too much on a controller. Even now at 90 there are abilities i simply never use because i do not have the hotbar space. And because the barrier for multiclassing is so low, more players have more alt jobs than probably any other mmo around. Which further adds to the potential hotbar and rotational complexity issue as so many jobs can cause confusion. Though that is more a player problem.

I suppose the solution is to provide an easier rotation with more and more complex fight mechanics. Which they dont really do. Mechanics in 14 are all basically the same few catagories of reaction and the challenge comes from a faster execution time that fades as memorization comes into play.

Frankly i think difficulty in mmo content is vastly overvalued because having a super hard fight is extra hard because players must find a large group of other players with the capability and determination to do that kind of content. Which even at peak popularity is very hard to do.
 

Gamertrek

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In fact ( in my opinion ) Everquest 101 was probably the most user oriented MMORPG. As simple as that game looks I mean it looks amazing, Just as playable, and with a revamp/DX/remix maybe would be better. Sad reality they had the Everquest II rubbish.

FFXII set the standard with having a videogames that could play with both players via console and computer. The only reason why Phantasy Star Online did not do this was because of Blue-Burst having more quests not accessible to the GCN versions. In fact you could even link up with all PSO versions ( not the X-box because of the LIVE paywall not in use ??? and I am not sure about the PS2 game as that is virtually unplayable asides for Universe ) including the Dreamcast + GCN + PC. Anybody can do this with a copy of Blue-Burst and enjoy on updated graphics and resolutions.

FFXIV is on PC you know. Why even bring up the console version unless their was an update or quest not available on the PC.
That is the ultimate problem with these MMORPG ports. I mean great it is on a game system but then the day comes when the system is no longer supported or is blocked for some inane reason.

Does FFXIV even have a story? I know the Dragon Quest game might have one but why bother asides looking cewl with your character. Might as well boot up MapleStory and be done with it, if I wanted to look ceeewwwlll.

Even FFXV makes more sense and that is saying a lot. I find it hard to feel anything to be honest.
 

CriticalGaming

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Im sorry but what you just said makes no sense. Your ff games are wrong. Asking if ff14 even has a story is mind boggling. What the heck is everquest 101? Saying ff15 made more sense than 14!? What is a GCN version?

I just...what?
 
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meiam

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This was interesting. Japan had a poll for the best FF games according to the people (of japan) on the best FF games for the 35th anniversary. This was the result.
huh, usually poll are just popularity chart (more or less) skew heavily toward new stuff since some people who play the older stuff will drift away over time, but this has a surprising variety, maybe because most of the game are available on modern hardware.
 
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CriticalGaming

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huh, usually poll are just popularity chart (more or less) skew heavily toward new stuff since some people who play the older stuff will drift away over time, but this has a surprising variety, maybe because most of the game are available on modern hardware.
I think that's a testament of how strong the Final Fantasy games actually are, in that even the old fucking games with heavily outdated mechanics are still very very playable and enjoyable to this day. I don't think many game series can say the same thing.
 

CriticalGaming

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Lol, XII doesn't even rank.
Honestly I am quite surprised to see 8 and 15 on this list, considering the junction system was not well received and 15 was incomplete and janky...but i suppose 15 did get good once they finished it.

So basically the one's that "suck" are 1,2,3, and 13. The disrespect for the Og's
 

FakeSympathy

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This was interesting. Japan had a poll for the best FF games according to the people (of japan) on the best FF games for the 35th anniversary. This was the result.
Apparently, the entire ranking went as the following:
  1. FF14
  2. FF7
  3. FF10 + 10-2
  4. FF6
  5. FF9
  6. FF5
  7. FF8
  8. FF4
  9. FF11
  10. FF15
  11. FF3
  12. FF13 Trilogy
  13. FF12
  14. FF2
  15. FF1
IDK, Kinda feels like FF1 and 2 should at least be higher than 13
 

meiam

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Apparently, the entire ranking went as the following:
  1. FF14
  2. FF7
  3. FF10 + 10-2
  4. FF6
  5. FF9
  6. FF5
  7. FF8
  8. FF4
  9. FF11
  10. FF15
  11. FF3
  12. FF13 Trilogy
  13. FF12
  14. FF2
  15. FF1
IDK, Kinda feels like FF1 and 2 should at least be higher than 13
Wait 12 below 13?! Look 12 has massive issue in pretty much every department, but at least its not going out of its way to insult the player. But otherwise I broadly agree with it.
 

CriticalGaming

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Wait 12 below 13?! Look 12 has massive issue in pretty much every department, but at least its not going out of its way to insult the player. But otherwise I broadly agree with it.
I think it is because 12 is insanely boring and 13 wins simply because it is beautiful to look at. 12 is not a good looking game but worse it isnt interesting and worse still...it isnt fun to play.

12 will play itself. In 13 you have to mash a button for it to play itself.
 

BrawlMan

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I think it is because 12 is insanely boring and 13 wins simply because it is beautiful to look at. 12 is not a good looking game but worse it isnt interesting and worse still...it isnt fun to play.

12 will play itself. In 13 you have to mash a button for it to play itself.
Both equally suck for me. I never actually played 12, but I watched a a person in ny college dorm play, and we all got bored at a certain point.
 

CriticalGaming

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Both equally suck for me. I never actually played 12, but I watched a a person in ny college dorm play, and we all got bored at a certain point.
Both are bad but you gotta rank them somehow and that's what happened so....meh.
 

wings012

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Both equally suck for me. I never actually played 12, but I watched a a person in ny college dorm play, and we all got bored at a certain point.
I played on my friend's save when I went over to his place. He had his party fully set up and he was talking about how cool it was that he could 'program' the character behaviours.

I guess it's kinda cool in a sense, but in the end all I had to do was walk his party through random enemy mobs and they do all the fighting themselves. This shit was autochess before autochess. There was fuck all to do except make the party move out of some AOE spell. Otherwise most attacks just target and will hit even as you try to 'move away'. Positioning largely didn't matter.

At the time I was choosing between playing Tales of Abyss vs FFXII, and decided to go with Tales of Abyss. I ended up going overseas for stuff and never finishing ToA though.
 
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bluegate

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Must suck working at Square and knowing that the games released these past TWENTY years are shrugged at, aside from FF14.
 

CriticalGaming

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Must suck working at Square and knowing that the games released these past TWENTY years are shrugged at, aside from FF14.
Yeah but at least square seems to be following capcom in making better shit these days. Ff16 looks great. Ff14 is awesome. The ff7remake project is great. Some of the other random projects not so much but you cant win them all.