The Half-Naked Elf Problem
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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I think you misunderstood me, my point was that every other women in the game world is unlikely to be a lesbian regardless of the main characters sexuality. Sorry if it was vague.DVS BSTrD said:
I see what you are getting at but I think an average female gamer prefers her hero to be an actual hero and not an underwear model.Grey Day for Elcia said:
There is a few posts in this very thread establishing that. Even then we should still be given a choice of whether we want our characters to be half naked or not and whether we want 'sexy' to be the main feature of our character.
The problem with games at the moment is that women are seen as object for guys to look at. Even Lara Croft, who was actually a pretty great character, had boobs as her central selling point.
We need more femsheps as main characters in games.
Some of the armour on this is great it's still feminine but not sillyKahunaburger said:
I dont see a problem. >.>; My wife actually loves it. When she plays Skyrim, all she runs around in is either the Forsworn armor, or the Saviors hide. She isnt even skilled in light armor, she just think they look way more bad ass then the others.
Its not like women DONT want to look attractive, and wear less clothing then is legally allowed. Go to a beach someday. Sure, they could ALL be wearing one pieces or swimming trunks, but im sure 90% of them will be in skimpy bikinis. Do we complain about that? No.
In the end, if you look at fashion these days, showing off your legs, cleavage and mid drift is common place (in america anyway). Just like how men want to play a buff Warlord of DEATH wreaking havoc across a country side, dooming all who stand in their path that doesnt bow to their might, im sure there are plenty of women out there who like to play supermodel spell flingers with pointy ears and poor jiggle physics.
While yes, i will say its a little tasteless, its not like nobody wants to see it.
Its not like women DONT want to look attractive, and wear less clothing then is legally allowed. Go to a beach someday. Sure, they could ALL be wearing one pieces or swimming trunks, but im sure 90% of them will be in skimpy bikinis. Do we complain about that? No.
In the end, if you look at fashion these days, showing off your legs, cleavage and mid drift is common place (in america anyway). Just like how men want to play a buff Warlord of DEATH wreaking havoc across a country side, dooming all who stand in their path that doesnt bow to their might, im sure there are plenty of women out there who like to play supermodel spell flingers with pointy ears and poor jiggle physics.
While yes, i will say its a little tasteless, its not like nobody wants to see it.
I thought Dragon Age was pretty good in this regard where my female warden wore armor and it looked like armor, though as a straight male I don't completely mind the stripper armor, but if we fantasy gamers want to be taken seriously we should realize it's time to grow the fuck up.
Nurb said:It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten and burned innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.Scrumpmonkey said:Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;
Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me
If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism
Yeah but however you spin it those things are a pedo's dream come true.
Honestly I don't see the problem here, if Girls don't like this kinda fantasy rpg, they can go play fable 2 where you can wear loads of clothes. This is obviously a rpg aimed at dudes (I mean boob jiggle physics!), so you have got to expect this sort of thing.
I wouldn't care if they made a fantasy rpg where men only wore pants, and girls wore plate armour, I honestly wouldn't care I would just find it funny.
People can complain about loads of stuff developers do but the bottom line is they do a lot of it to sell their Games. In short BOOBS SELL GAMES.
For example I don't really like the fact that the bad guy in pretty much everything happens to be British, but I understand the upper class British accent is great for Baddies. Fantasy will always have Boobs, and your heroes nemesis will always be from Chelsea.
Well, how hard would it be to give them a choice? Seriously, if you give them a choice for the itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka-dot bikini and they choose it, fair enough. But you could still let them choose to wear armour that actually looks like armour, instead of the masturbatory fantasy of a frustrated adolescent.kouriichi said:
Well so what?verdant monkai said:
They're just 3d models.
No harm done to anyone if someone in their basement jerks off to that kind of thing, right?
Let 'em have it, who cares. It only becomes a problem if real kids are involved, doesn't it?
I just don't see the problem here, apart from this making explaining the game to your parents even more awkward than chronically pseudo-clothed chicks thrown in for no reason already do.
I have no idea what sort of wretched, neckbearded creature actually buys games because they have tits in them. I mean, seriously, if you really must look at pictures of boobs while you play vidya gaems, the internet is full of that stuff. Bonus: you don't have to see the creepy pedo shit bluehole put into their game to pander to a different demographic.verdant monkai said:
You object to the armor because it is not realistic? Really? Just say that you think it wrong to objectify women too much in these games or whatever, but unrealistic armor is not the strong argument you think it is. I mean people run/jump/swim/fight in full plate armor and walk as fast as the dude in leather armor or casually run around with heavy chainmail in scorching desert environments but suddenly the lightly-clothed women is where you draw the line?
Personally I don't have a problem with it. Practical? It's a fantasy game where people swing giant swords and axes that would make Cloud blush, ride Pegasus' for transportation, and have sentient animals as a playable race. When games, movies, anime, etc. are clearly stepped into such a fantastical and unrealistic world then I can overlook many issues of practicality and realism.
As for sexism, yeah the women in Tera do wear sexier/more revealing armor than males, but imo the outfits aren't THAT bad. For the most part I've found them to have a good balance between aesthetics and protection. Most armor I've seen have been more than just "battle bikini's" and do provide a reasonable amount of cover for the body. Perhaps not practical irl but again its a fantasy game not a rl simulation.
Overall I think that this issue is overblown and overdone. It's an asian mmo and thus has different cultural views and preferences. And if you don't like the Elin or think the women are too scantily clad then simply play a male, or a different race, or don't play at all. Personally I've been having a blast with the combat and other features which are a much larger part of the experience.
As for sexism, yeah the women in Tera do wear sexier/more revealing armor than males, but imo the outfits aren't THAT bad. For the most part I've found them to have a good balance between aesthetics and protection. Most armor I've seen have been more than just "battle bikini's" and do provide a reasonable amount of cover for the body. Perhaps not practical irl but again its a fantasy game not a rl simulation.
Overall I think that this issue is overblown and overdone. It's an asian mmo and thus has different cultural views and preferences. And if you don't like the Elin or think the women are too scantily clad then simply play a male, or a different race, or don't play at all. Personally I've been having a blast with the combat and other features which are a much larger part of the experience.
Shamus did say that their are men and women out in the gaming world that want to run around in their underwear. However, there are also people who don't. In most games women have to be be almost naked, and men have to be "dressed like stupid emos in armor". A system that lets you have the best of both worlds would be a perfect fix. It wouldn't stop you or your friends from "running around casting spells, slaying dragons, and kicking ass while wearing metal underwear", but rather it would make it even better.DVS BSTrD said:
With this type of system for armor you could use the stats of the games most powerful armor, but run around wearing nothing but your actual underwear. Also, say you want to wear the underwear armor but the most powerful one isn't your favorite looking one? This makes all that a non-issue. If you want to be naked male or female fine you can, and if you want to wear your favorite armor instead of the most powerful then you can do that to if you so wish.
So how would this be at all hypocritical, if everyone gets what they want, and nobody has to change what they already do?
I may be wrong, but isn't The Secret World doing what you want Shamus? Uncoupling look from stats, by having the stats work on things other than your gear? I think there will be gear that you can only get with certain amount of XP (there's no levels, either) and you can always change your look.
Honestly, I find that everyone in Tera is relatively sexualized, not counting the overweight dog/cat/skunk class. The clevage-to-sixpack ratio seems to be somewhat consistant, with almost every race, class within the race and gender at the very least have the option to show at times absurd amounts of skin.
And I'm not bothered by any of this to be honest. Sure it would be nice if people got the option to be fully clothed as well as barely at all, but at least this time the males are not as far off as in most fantasy RPGs... The female with no pants under her armored chaps dont look so silly anymore next to a stunningly sexy high elf that left his plate body at home.
I have only played for a couple of hours though. If the female outfits remain skimpy while the male ones get progressively more armored I think they kinda sold out, but should the nudity be upheld... I don't mind anyway to be honest X3. Sexy is awesome.
And I'm not bothered by any of this to be honest. Sure it would be nice if people got the option to be fully clothed as well as barely at all, but at least this time the males are not as far off as in most fantasy RPGs... The female with no pants under her armored chaps dont look so silly anymore next to a stunningly sexy high elf that left his plate body at home.
I have only played for a couple of hours though. If the female outfits remain skimpy while the male ones get progressively more armored I think they kinda sold out, but should the nudity be upheld... I don't mind anyway to be honest X3. Sexy is awesome.
This line of reasoning really annoys me. Over-sexualized characters look absurd in a sad way regardless of gender, and whoever decided to sexualize underage-looking characters in Tera can go fuck a garbage disposal. Equal-opportunity suck is still suck.Vampire cat said:
Actually that is the issue. Don't get me wrong. We should not get rid of armor that is too sexy or lude, but it should be chosen not forced on to the players. You said it yourself. Your wife picked the sexy armor because she thought it was bad ass (and it so is by the way). However, the problem is more when men and women don't get to chose.kouriichi said:
I mean I didn't even see one outfit in the game Shamus is talking about that didn't make the girls look like they weren't walking around in their underwear. Yes, there are people who do want to do that, but that should be their choice.
For an opposite example; if I want my male character to go around in Skyrim in underwear like armor I can. Though I think girls get a slightly better selection for that.
But honestly I don't think Skyrim has the best weather for a guy to show off (if you get my meaning).
Eamar said:
Oh yeah, metal thigh-highs, open sided tops, no pants and almost visible underwear just screams "ready for combat" to me.[/quote]Grey Day for Elcia said:
but she not exactly but neked ether, hell she's more covered then anything i've seen outa WoW (not that i dress my characters like skanks anyway, yes, that one is mine)
also, where the hell are you seeing suspenders? if anything they're Plate thigh highs
also, no undies are visible at all in that set, i noticed that to, upon closer inspection she is in short shorts unless you wanna get on my for the times I'm not waring armor at all [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb8AqV1BKpI]
Whether you like it or not mate Games with sex appeal sell take Bayonetta for example, do you think that Game became talked about because it had great combat?Kahunaburger said:
Also a great example of boobs selling fantasy is the guild war games cover art.
http://www.gamersbin.com/game-wallpapers-f137/cover-art-guild-wars-eye-north-%5Bgw-en%5D-wallpaper-cover-art-wallpaper-24169/
Do you really there is another reason her tits are so big, other than to draw the eye and sell the Game?
No, she's not naked. Nakedness is not the point. The point is she's wearing "armour" that has clearly been designed with sex appeal as the primary goal. That's what we're complaining about. If I'm playing a female tank, I want her to look as tough and solid (bulky, even) as her male counterparts. Elegance and sexiness are not at the forefront of a lot of women's minds in this situation, contrary to popular belief.Lunar Templar said: