The Half-Naked Elf Problem

Shamus Young

New member
Jul 7, 2008
3,247
0
0
The Half-Naked Elf Problem

Yes, this is an old issue. Humor me. I know how to fix this.

Read Full Article
 

Marohen

New member
Jun 30, 2009
59
0
0
Actually, the system you've proposed was recently put in place by WoW as "Transmogrification", you can now change the appearance of a piece of gear into something else, with specific restrictions:

1. You have to have the gear you want to Mog your current gear into.
2. Armour has to be the same armour class and weapons have to be the same weapon type, the latter applies to both not being allowed to Mog 2-handers into 1-handers and visa versa as well as not being able to Mog, say, Axes into maces (Though that last part might be changed come mists).
3. You can't Mog weapons to look like legendary weapons and legendary weapons to look like something else.
 

Freechoice

New member
Dec 6, 2010
1,019
0
0
Eh, I've never seen a problem with scantily clad pixels. Really, everyone should be running around naked, imo. The sheer physics would be amazing.
 

RvLeshrac

This is a Forum Title.
Oct 2, 2008
662
0
0
LOTRO has the least-revealing outfits of any game I've played, MMO or otherwise, for female characters. There are some outfits that are slightly more revealing than others (low-cut dresses), but you probably wouldn't be wearing a ball gown into combat.
 

Scrustle

New member
Apr 30, 2011
2,031
0
0
It's sad that this is still an issue. Gaming really needs to grow out of it. I hate all these BDSM looking female characters in games. It doesn't do anything to dispel the gamer stereotype of us all being perverted basement dwelling virgins.

But I don't really like the system of wearing one set of clothing but appearing to wear another. It just seems to make itself redundant to me. Why bother making different sets of armour with different stats if you can just ignore the stats and wear whatever you want? Maybe it would be best if there was some sort of system where what you wear isn't connected to your armour stats at all. Maybe you could make it so all armour sets have no effect on their own, but all have enchantment slots in which you can place magic gems or something which give the item the stats you want. That sounds like a workable system which makes sense to me.

EDIT: This idea is going somewhere... It could also be organised in a way that there are different classes of armour and only certain types of gems can be put in to certain classes of armour. That way you don't get people walking around in magic robes that give the same armour ratings as the biggest beefiest platemail, etc. That could be seen as a bit too restrictive, but I think it just makes sense and wouldn't unbalance the game. And so that it makes sense to unlock "better" armour as you level up, higher level armour could have more slots for these gems than lower level stuff. But there would also be an option to add extra slots to lower level armour if you wanted to keep with that style. The ability to unlock these extra slots correlate with the unlocking of higher level armour.

If that system was in a game I think it would be totally awesome. If there's anyone here planning on making an MMO/RPG any time soon then feel free to steal my ideas, because I know I won't be using them.
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
8,946
0
0
Marohen said:
Actually, the system you've proposed was recently put in place by WoW as "Transmogrification", you can now change the appearance of a piece of gear into something else, with specific restrictions:

1. You have to have the gear you want to Mog your current gear into.
2. Armour has to be the same armour class and weapons have to be the same weapon type, the latter applies to both not being allowed to Mog 2-handers into 1-handers and visa versa as well as not being able to Mog, say, Axes into maces (Though that last part might be changed come mists).
3. You can't Mog weapons to look like legendary weapons and legendary weapons to look like something else.
Yep. After three expansions and numerous patches, WoW added the ability to make your gear look like other gear. Needless to say, you've got a fair amount of what is colloquially dubbed 'slut armour' but - and perhaps this is because I'm on an RP server - the vast majority of both male and female characters seem to have 'reasonable' gear sets.

Frankly, there seems to be little reason why such a feature isn't standard and staple for all games from now on.

And it's a money sink in WoW too. Not a huge money sink (about 10-30g), but a sink nonetheless.
 

MorganL4

Person
May 1, 2008
1,364
0
0
The method Shamus just mentioned has been in place for DC Universe Online for a REALLY long time (may have been in at launch, I dunno didn't play at launch), you pick up new items that come with looks attached, you put it on and it changes your look, HOWEVER if you want you can go into the appearance options and lock an item.

so say I have some awesome red and blue gloves that I don't want to loose but the rusty gauntlets have better stats, I lock the appearance of the red and blue gloves, then go to inventory swap out the gloves for the gauntlets and vwalla I get a +3 to strength AND my hero still looks cool.
 

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
Shamus Young said:
Also, buy his novel, which has a magic-casting woman...
...Oh? Tell me more abo-...

Shamus Young said:
...in practical clothes.
...well there goes my interest.


On a serious note, yes, this is a known issue, and quite easy to fix. One of the many "easy to fix" issues in gaming today that seem to baffle developers. Sadly so many developers seem either completely oblivious to the obvious, or too focused on the code to notice the actual game they're doing.

I mean, really, I can't think of any reason why developers wouldn't want a "double inventory" system (effective armor vs. visual), like in F2P title RustyHearts. It solves everyone's problem and gives you, literally, two times the amount of shit you can sell players. Are these people allergic to success and money or something?
 

Kahunaburger

New member
May 6, 2011
4,141
0
0
Re: the last point, I'm not convinced that including practical armor for female characters in a game that more prominently features jiggle physics, chainmail bikinis, etc. does much to get rid of the "hey, women! This game isn't for you!" impression that this sort of game gives off. Did having a Spartan in full power armor do anything to make that one Dead or Alive game come off as less targeted at an exclusively male audience?
 

Shamus Young

New member
Jul 7, 2008
3,247
0
0
Well Maybe I just don't want to play an MMO with the sort of prudes who don't dream of running around casting spells, slaying Dragons and kicking ass while wearing metal underwear? Ever think of that Shamus?

OT: Why do we really need a double inventory system. Surely a practical full-body armor suit can be made to look sexy? And as for existing preferences, why not just have the same design, but with stronger materials? Or maybe they could let you wear that wizard's robe Over that suit of armor. Multi-level > double inventory system. I also feel that the later system was kinda hypocritical.
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
8,946
0
0
MorganL4 said:
The method Shamus just mentioned has been in place for DC Universe Online for a REALLY long time (may have been in at launch, I dunno didn't play at launch), you pick up new items that come with looks attached, you put it on and it changes your look, HOWEVER if you want you can go into the appearance options and lock an item.
TotalBiscuit was playing beta and seemed to have that mechanic in his videos, so I assume it was in at launch too.
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
Your first youtube is unavailable.

No mention of the Loli race? Yea they need to put some pants on those little girls before you worry about chainmail bikinis
 

Marohen

New member
Jun 30, 2009
59
0
0
Amnestic said:
Marohen said:
Actually, the system you've proposed was recently put in place by WoW as "Transmogrification", you can now change the appearance of a piece of gear into something else, with specific restrictions:

1. You have to have the gear you want to Mog your current gear into.
2. Armour has to be the same armour class and weapons have to be the same weapon type, the latter applies to both not being allowed to Mog 2-handers into 1-handers and visa versa as well as not being able to Mog, say, Axes into maces (Though that last part might be changed come mists).
3. You can't Mog weapons to look like legendary weapons and legendary weapons to look like something else.
Yep. After three expansions and numerous patches, WoW added the ability to make your gear look like other gear. Needless to say, you've got a fair amount of what is colloquially dubbed 'slut armour' but - and perhaps this is because I'm on an RP server - the vast majority of both male and female characters seem to have 'reasonable' gear sets.

Frankly, there seems to be little reason why such a feature isn't standard and staple for all games from now on.

And it's a money sink in WoW too. Not a huge money sink (about 10-30g), but a sink nonetheless.
Void storage is probably a more quantifiable money sink than Transmog itself (For those who don't know, void storage was added along with Transmog as a sort of bulk gear storage that's larger but more costly than a regular bank), but I agree that it's important to highlight the necessity of a a gold sink given WoW's rather high gold inflation it's seen over the years.

And yes, scantily clad gear is still abound, but at least players have the choice to change it into something else, which seems much more fair.

It's probably also worth nothing that, since you have to still obtain the gear you want your character to appear to be wearing, this mechanic helps reinvigorating interest in old and irrelevant raids and dungeons, since now gear has the timeless value of aesthetics instead of just stats.
 

Prof. Monkeypox

New member
Mar 17, 2010
1,014
0
0
I think it'd be pretty cool to be able to create your own aesthetic outfits without being bound by stats or gender models. You could get some great creativity with a robust system.

Personally, I don't see why people are pointing out the horrible sexism in Tera. Yeah, it's stupid and shameless, but no more so than dozens of other games around it. The trend needs to die, but why punish one game for conforming to it more than any other?
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
0
0
It's completely immersion breaking for me to be wearing two different things at the same time! This makes no sense! You're ruining the game!

First of all, if "immersion" is a priority for you, then maybe MMO's shouldn't be your go-to genre.
And if I may...

Second, everyone who uses "it's immersion breaking" as an excuse for why something is bad needs to shut up anyway because they're probably stupid. "Immersion" and "immersion breaking" have been tossed around so much lately that they mean absolutely nothing at this point. Everything is "immersion breaking" anymore. Don't like something, but can't really explain why? Just say that it's immersion breaking and call it a day. It's like the "tastes like chicken" of games... Or something. Whatever. Point is, people have devalued that as a criticism to the point where it's useless. Like in this example here, how is wearing two different things immersion breaking? Unless it's drawing both items on your character at the same time, so that you see bits of one piece of armor poking out of another as you play, it's no more immersion breaking than the menu you have to open to select what armor to wear in the first place. Thus, claiming that it would be immersion breaking is a completely useless and invalid complaint.

So what I'm trying to say to everyone out there is that you should come up with some actual criticisms for something instead of just saying "immersion breaking" and thinking it's actually a valid point. Guess what: it isn't.
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
8,946
0
0
Prof. Monkeypox said:
Personally, I don't see why people are pointing out the horrible sexism in Tera. Yeah, it's stupid and shameless, but no more so than dozens of other games around it. The trend needs to die, but why punish one game for conforming to it more than any other?
My guess? Because it's the new kid on the block, thus fresh in the minds of readers, thus a useful segue example into the general topic (scantily clad female avatars) of the article. How many other recent (large) game releases have that sort of stuff going on? Is it really dozens?

If it really is dozens, then my guess is "Because that was the game Shamus tried at PAX East which left enough of an impression to warrant an article". ;p
 

Shamus Young

New member
Jul 7, 2008
3,247
0
0
This problem is a bit more apparent in asian MMOs. Guess what TERA is.

Frankly, you have to consider cultural differences here - it's a japanese game (iirc, could be korean, point's the same) and made for their own specific audiences, and just because they release it in the west they're not gonna start changing all their armor sets.

As for western MMOs... well, I can't remember any recent western MMO whose women are as scantily clad as TERA's.
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
As Shamus mentioned (and put great emphasis on during his Shamus PLays) LOTRO has an awesome cosmetic outfit system. Thing's been around for ages, I think they put it in roughly 6 months/a year after the game came out. You can even go so far as to dye it a myriad of colors. You can even cosmetically equip heavy armor on someone who's not proficient with it if you have wardrobe slots (or something like that, haven't bought any) In PVP cosmetic options are shut off so there's nothing messed up there.
 

zephyron

New member
Sep 27, 2011
33
0
0
Some people have mentioned a specific MMO here and there, but the fact is, pretty much every modern MMO already has this feature in some sense. Plenty of them have the "two ragdoll" approach that Shamus described, WoW as mentioned has a very similar system where you implant the looks of one item onto the stats of another, and SWToR has had a slightly different approach with gear specifically designed to be cosmetic that you can implant the stats onto.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
An easy route would be to replace armour bonuses with some sort of "slotting" system where you get to place items into clothing. Then your clothes aren't really the armour anyway. And if this is too immersion-breaking in a world of thongs of +5 awesome and dragons of dragony goodness, I don't know what to tell you.

I'd honestly like to be able to dress as silly or sensibly as I want.