The Last Thing We Need is Developers Policing Mods

[Recusant]

I'm not familiar with how developer control over their Steam interface works- was Paradox capable of just having the comments deleted?

 

[Bedinsis]

I investigated somewhat. According to Paradox employees at Reddit the issue was the mod description, which apparently promoted an agenda they didn't want to be associated with:

We saw the mod, thought it wasn't in very good taste, but let it remain. Then the creator of the mod decided to update the description of the mod to promote an "agenda" not related to computer games at all, and this was being clearly displayed on our product page. We decided it was a step too far and removed it. Eurogamer did not do a good job describing what exactly it was we removed.

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/4ktt2l/paradox_pulls_discriminatory_stellaris_mod_that/

 

[infohippie]

You don't have an unlimited right to host things on Steam's workshop. If this is what people think harms the modding scene...

...I got nothing. I mean, this sounds like another thinly-wrapped "freeze peach" argument. At the point that "white people only" mods are now vital to the community, it should be a sign that it's time for self-reflection.

You're missing the point. It's not about the content of any particular mod, it's the question of whether we want developers policing the mods for their games and this article has provided some good arguments as to why this might be a bad idea.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I'd rather they spend more thought on developing their code than watching others. Let the publishers go litigious if things are provably damaging sales.

 

[shrekfan246]

So, where are all of the people championing Paradox's right to defend their artistic vision?

First of all, all they did was remove the thing from the Steam workshop. It was still available and rather easy to find. As far as I'm aware, they're not required to host literally anything that the community comes out with on their official Steam store page. Second, given how readily available the mod always has been, would someone like to explain how this is any more stifling to the modding community than, say, issuing copyright takedowns for material that isn't owned by the modder?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

So, let me get this straight: Paradox removing a mod who's description had white supremist dog whistles and a link to a YouTube channel with that standard Neo-Nazi "multi-culturalism is bad because white genocide" rhetoric is bad because...?

They thought it was in bad taste, but allowed it to stay up before that happened. They're more policing their game's reputation than it's mod content.

 

[Something Amyss]

You're missing the point. It's not about the content of any particular mod, it's the question of whether we want developers policing the mods for their games

Except that's not what happened, and nobody seems to have done their homework on it. The mod was removed from their Workshop page, and specifically because the developers linked to their White Power YouTube channel. That's it. Nothing about this is curating mods, as the mod, Nazis and all, was still available literally anywhere else that chose to host it.

The devs aren't policing mods for their games. That's outright false. When people are up in arms about a given instance, and it's a false one, it's not missing the point to point out it's false. This is being used as a case for the argument. It was literally given as an example within the article. Unfortunately, it's not really...true.

 

[Something Amyss]

So, where are all of the people championing Paradox's right to defend their artistic vision?

Dumb as I think the usual internet outrage defending Nazis and their hate speech is, this is probably a bad argument since we're talking aftermarket modifications. Their original vision is intact.

Though I have no doubt if the opposite were the case, this would be an argument.

So, let me get this straight: Paradox removing a mod who's description had white supremist dog whistles and a link to a YouTube channel with that standard Neo-Nazi "multi-culturalism is bad because white genocide" rhetoric is bad because...?

More to the point, the mod is still available. And then was restored, evidently without the links.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

While I do agree with the article in spirit, in that I think it can get out of hand if devs start taking mods down because they can, but, in this case?

I'm totally fine with them doing it.

From what I can gather the mod in question had some white supremacy shit attached to it, and that's really not okay. The devs just want to keep their game from these sort of mods that create an atmosphere of exclusion, and promote nasty ideologies.

So yeah, I don't think the devs did anything wrong, and I guess the mod is still available somewhere. So, happy day for those people, I guess. :/

 

[Trunkage]

Okay, so in the EULA for Steam, it is clear that you never own the game you purchased.

Paradox would need some permission from Steam to get in removed from the Workshop. You, the consumer, can complain all you want but you don't own Steam, the Workshop, the game, the community page or the mod. You don't get a choice in this matter, except to complain or not.

So maybe, if you really want something changed, you should attack the source of the problem not the result

 

[Grumpy Ginger]

I don't really use steam workshop mods but people if you are ever so desperate to make sure that there are only lily white people in space then couldn't the modders just put it somewhere else. By way of analogy if you went to a store and bought a book the publisher would be a little unhappy if at the counter you had the option of adding a white supremacist fanfic to it for free. It implies the publisher condones the content. They could care less if you read it online from an unconnected source.

 

[Something Amyss]

One of the points others have made to keep the mod was that were many other single race only mods out already. Including a different white people only mod. If there is a "black people only" and an "only asian mod," then a white only mod is just as appropriate. If you have an issue with single race mods, then I can see a possible angle. If you have an issue with the white people only mod but none of the other racial exclusion mods, then we encroach on the land of hypocrisy.

Except that's not what the issue was, and you claim to know it.

I understand why it was pulled and I'm glad they put it back after it was fixed. I couldn't ever see the need to use that mod, but glad it exists for those that wish to enjoy it.

Yeah, it's almost like this mod was singled out for a reason. That's not hypocrisy, and you claim to understand why it was pulled, so why claim otherwise?

Except they didn't touch the black or asian only mods.

Which of those mods linked to white supremacist YouTube channels?

I don't really use steam workshop mods but people if you are ever so desperate to make sure that there are only lily white people in space then couldn't the modders just put it somewhere else.

They already had. It was already available elsewhere and remained so. And other people managed to have whites-only mods up at the time this was pulled.

 

[weirdee]

Nothing new. The thought of someone policing fantasies still stays disturbing. As are people who think that everyone should thought-policed because their political agenda is that important.

While we're slipping in attacks on each other's characters on racism, if you wanted to play a game where everybody's white, I invite you to go to any number of game stores and just sweep your arms across the aisle. You can have your pick of any title that has fallen on the floor.

a) "white" is a racist term b) there are other countries than america in the world and c) maybe don't tell people which games to play, m-kay?

Three for three on that strawman. It's almost as if you were trying to make points directed at me.

 

[Something Amyss]

The issue I have is people saying "white only mod" is so racist, but avoiding comments on the other racist "african only" and "asian only" mods.

That's fine. Just stop replying to me, then. I have not only spoken to the core of the issue here being the links, but I've clarified it twice. My original post dealt mostly with the idea that there was no right or guarantee for a third party to hose your mod. The only time I said "whites only" in that was to make the argument that if that was what was considered integral, or worth kicking this off, we're in pretty bad shape.

And then you did the same thing with Fiz, who explicitly in the text you quoted brings up specifically the links. It didn't stop you from making the "there are Asian-only mods, too" argument, even though your own quote displays that you at least should know that's not what she's saying.

Do you have anything relevant to say to me?

Because I don't care what other hypothetical people are saying.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

While I do agree with the article in spirit, in that I think it can get out of hand if devs start taking mods down because they can, but, in this case?

I'm totally fine with them doing it.

From what I can gather the mod in question had some white supremacy shit attached to it, and that's really not okay. The devs just want to keep their game from these sort of mods that create an atmosphere of exclusion, and promote nasty ideologies.

So yeah, I don't think the devs did anything wrong, and I guess the mod is still available somewhere. So, happy day for those people, I guess. :/

Except they didn't touch the black or asian only mods. If you're against exclusion, then you should make it consistent. The link to other sites and crap was the big issue and they were right to pull for that. They were also right to put it back up once that was solved. That or pull all race exclusion mods.

To my knowledge, those other mods aren't going "fuck whitey, be Asian/Black/Hispanic instead!"

Basically, they aren't being pulled because of being bigoted. If they were doing the same thing as the one that was pulled then, yeah, I would call hypocrisy. But that's not the case. With regards to the other mods, they're pretty benign. If they are there for aesthetics and nothing more then that's fine. Who cares.

It's the intent behind the mod that matters, and I think the devs did the right thing.

 

[weirdee]

Three for three on that strawman. It's almost as if you were trying to make points directed at me.

Oh, it's good to know that I'm getting better.
And no. There's too many people thinking that everyone with a somewhat pale skin is a direct descendant of the American slave owners. Making points at them individually just does not worth it. So I'll just scold you for dropping the w-word like it means something.
It really does not. Avoid using it in the future.

The type of logic you are attempting to employ is devoid of any actual context that would justify you ever saying any of those words you just combined as a legitimate grievance even if we were to ignore the past couple of thousands of years that have happened. You are trying to play at a game that isn't a game much less something that would ever benefit any party, especially yourself or the vague definition of the group of people you consider yourself to be defending or speak for, and I would recommend you not repeat such an ill-considered attempt at pretending to participate in "the discourse" in the company of more opportunistic and less sympathetic individuals than me.

There are few things that I have more distaste for than people who consider themselves the target of criticism that has nothing to do with them, but they choose to believe that throwing themselves in the path of the conversation gives them the right to participate in it.

 

[weirdee]

The type of logic you are attempting to employ is devoid of any actual context that would justify you ever saying any of those words you just combined as a legitimate grievance even if we were to ignore the past couple of thousands of years that have happened. You are trying to play at a game that isn't a game much less something that would ever benefit any party, especially yourself or the vague definition of the group of people you consider yourself to be defending or speak for, and I would recommend you not repeat such an ill-considered attempt at pretending to participate in "the discourse" in the company of more opportunistic and less sympathetic individuals than me.

This does not really say anything to me, or prove your point in some way.
So I stand my ground. Stop saying "white" like it means something. It does not.

The claims you have made do not have anything to do with this thread's conversation topic, and the more you attempt to force the matter, the more credibility slips from your fingers that you can't afford to lose.

If we were to indulge in your fantasy, by your logic, if the group that is commonly referred to as "white" does not actually exist, you are defending nobody, including yourself, and the hill you have chosen to die on is in the middle of a desert where nobody can hear you. If you want to be the fool, you are free to do so, but I am done with this matter.

 

[Elfgore]

From what I understand, the Workshop has set rules that you have to agree to before placing a mod on there. I could see hateful and discriminatory things be included in that. Hell, Creative Assembly straight said they will be policing their mods on the Total War: Warhammer workshop like crazy due to their license agreement. A Lord of the Rings mod could put them in deep shit and prevent mod support for future titles in the series.

I do agree with the premise though. The community should be the one's to "police mods" with votes and downloads.

 

[Dollabillyall]

I want my pornographic/politically incorrect/grossly offensive mods... and I'm getting them even if it means cracking the game etc.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Agreed, even when a mod is doing something really "wrong" it isn't up to publishers to play the moral compas. Even if their intentions are good it opens up the potential for major problems for modders.

Cus people's feelings are quite easily hurt nowadays.