The Most Dangerous Woman in Videogames - Anita Sarkeesian

MovieBob

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The Most Dangerous Woman in Videogames - Anita Sarkeesian

Anita Sarkeesian lectures about female tropes in games and MovieBob was there to see it.

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tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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Wow, 17 minutes and no comments yet? I wholly believed this place would be World War 5 by now, congratulations. As much as I believe her kickstarter was an unnecessary and dishonest cash grab, the notoriety it earned her is now letting her reach people academically, so that's a good thing.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Apr 25, 2013
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tangoprime said:
Wow, 17 minutes and no comments yet? I wholly believed this place would be World War 5 by now, congratulations. As much as I believe her kickstarter was an unnecessary and dishonest cash grab, the notoriety it earned her is now letting her reach people academically, so that's a good thing.
Yeah, we may disagree on methods and points but I have a feeling that a lot of people do notice that our perception of women in games is not good to say the least. I honestly don't know why there was so much rage at the initial kickstarter when people make jokes and comments about these issues all the time.
 

Fappy

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Sounds like it was a pretty cool talk. I'm not really an Anita fan by any stretch, but I would have loved to attend.
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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Izanagi009 said:
I honestly don't know why there was so much rage at the initial kickstarter when people make jokes and comments about these issues all the time.
I can't speak for others, but I found the whole raising that much money thing for the videos that were put out (very slowly I might add) a bit shady. I mean, I can't remember what the initial goal was, but per the Kickstarter page still up, she's raised >$150,000 to make youtube videos in what looks like a spare room in her house, on top of the fact that she already had a fairly trafficked youtube channel (again, IIRC). To me, it felt like someone saying they want to create a small homeless shelter, but in order to do so, they absolutely need to raise 650,000,000 USD, before they'll get started, despite the fact that they've already been running soup kitchens.

But again, the discussion is a good thing, especially if she's visiting universities and whatnot directly and spurring discussion.
...even if I don't like her personally based on the above, and the fact that she just has a dishonest feel about her that I can't put my finger on.

Basically this:
Full Metal Bolshevik said:
Precesly, I personally don't sympathise with her, but she's bringing more good than harm to the industry, if simply by making consumers and developers think about the issue.
 

Story

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Disclaimer: I have not yet read the article, I'll read it after class.

I honestly can't go by the allegations about how she run her Kickstarter because everything is all hearsay. Unless I see real evidence about the things she was accused of, I'm not going to believe it.
Therefore, I just judge her on the content of her videos, which I think are actually rather good for a Feminist 101 type of thing. I mean pretty all of the things she mentioned were literally discussed in my Feminist 101 class in college only observed in particular media that happens to be the underused and young media that we all call video games. So yeah, I don't see what's so offensive about her work.
 

josemlopes

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Perfect Dark as a bad example? Sure, the commercial was terrible but that has nothing to do with the actual content of the game (a fine example of a very female oriented game to be honest), did she actually talked about the game and how good it was of an example of a female protagonist? All I see from these talks is examples of females being poorly used yet they never talk about them being well used, of course by the end of the talk the world will look like shit since all they did was talk about the bad.

I can also talk exclusively about the bad in other games in regards to men, GTAV told me that not having a big dick and muscles doesnt make me a man. Those Rockstar devs sure hate men, right?

All in all, fine, talk about the bad (like the commercial) but dont skip on what was good just to make your point sound more valid.
 

Farther than stars

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I figured it was probably inevitable that MovieBob would say something on this subject after the Digital Gonzo Podcast on Fan Response. For those of you haven't heard it yet, here's a link:

[link]http://www.gonzoplanet.com/2013/09/digital-gonzo-149-fan-response/[/link]

The play-button for the audiofile is at the bottom of the page (above the comments), but be warned, it is four hours long; the part on Anita Sarkeesian is somewhere in the middle (before the two-hour mark, if I remember correctly).

It's not a bad piece, despite its length. It also has Dan and LeeLee from Extra Credits and the podcast let me know about some really greats artists, including a musician and webcomic creator.
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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Story said:
Disclaimer: I have not yet the article, I'll read it after class.

I honestly can't go by the allegations about how she run her Kickstarter because everything is all hearsay. Unless I see real evidence about the things she was accused of, I'm not going to believe it.
Therefore, I just judge her on the content of her videos, which I think are actually rather good for a Feminist 101 type of thing. I mean pretty all of the things she mentioned were literally discussed in my Feminist 101 class in college only observed in particular media that happens to be the underused and young media that we all call video games. So yeah, I don't see what's so offensive about her work.
This is exactly the thing that made me a bit leery of her: the fact that her videos are middle of the road youtube quality, and pretty decent Feminist 101 material, but she leveraged over $150,000 out of a kickstarter to produce it. It just feels like a cash grab on her part, the kickstarter being a way to advertise (and create controversy for that sake) and the money being completely unnecessary to the project. Again... just my opinion, but she just feels dishonest to me and I can't shake it.

Just to reiterate my other opinions though, getting people to talk about the actual issues, especially as mentioned in this article, at the university level, is a good thing. I just wish there was someone who felt more honest behind it.
 

Cabisco

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I don't have much to contribute to the discussion but I just wanted to say what a good article this is. While I don't find Anita particularly engaging or easy to listen to I think her basic premise is correct and the reaction she garnered highlights how backward gaming culture can be.
 

UberPubert

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There is a sort of strange silver lining to what is otherwise an entirely banal article written about a very boorish woman's outdated opinions: Seeing her pack a room full of people and everyone there being able to see this kind of internet bile doesn't exist in the real world is enough to deflate the notion of "look, this is proof women are being oppressed!" during a slideshow about comments from internet trolls.

In the first world - the real world, as we westerners know it - oppression doesn't actually exist, and all the preaching about what happens elsewhere doesn't change how in reality most everyone is fairly civil, even when challenged.
 

Ragsnstitches

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tangoprime said:
Izanagi009 said:
I honestly don't know why there was so much rage at the initial kickstarter when people make jokes and comments about these issues all the time.
I can't speak for others, but I found the whole raising that much money thing for the videos that were put out (very slowly I might add) a bit shady. I mean, I can't remember what the initial goal was, but per the Kickstarter page still up, she's raised >$150,000 to make youtube videos in what looks like a spare room in her house, on top of the fact that she already had a fairly trafficked youtube channel (again, IIRC). To me, it felt like someone saying they want to create a small homeless shelter, but in order to do so, they absolutely need to raise 650,000,000 USD, before they'll get started, despite the fact that they've already been running soup kitchens.

But again, the discussion is a good thing, especially if she's visiting universities and whatnot directly and spurring discussion.
...even if I don't like her personally based on the above, and the fact that she just has a dishonest feel about her that I can't put my finger on.

Basically this:
Full Metal Bolshevik said:
Precesly, I personally don't sympathise with her, but she's bringing more good than harm to the industry, if simply by making consumers and developers think about the issue.
Problem with Kickstarter and what Anita used it for, is that kickstarter is really for larger projects with a single product, not multiple products over a period of time. But at the time there weren't many alternatives and the other alternatives were of the "large single project" mindset.

Recently there has been a few crowdfunding sites that promote smaller projects, of which youtube serials fit under.

Kickstarter is an ill fit for the type of project Anita was working on.

This would have been a better alternative, but it didn't exist at the time: http://www.patreon.com/about
 

james.sponge

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tangoprime said:
Wow, 17 minutes and no comments yet? I wholly believed this place would be World War 5 by now, congratulations. As much as I believe her kickstarter was an unnecessary and dishonest cash grab, the notoriety it earned her is now letting her reach people academically, so that's a good thing.
I think people simply stopped caring.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Houseman said:
I've yet to see any well-written article against what she's doing. As far as I know, the only hate comes from the "little people" of the internet.

If there is one, I'd be interested in reading it.

I know Jim Sterling did an episode about it, but I think that focused more on the community and their insults than it did her arguments or agenda.
In a place more level-headed than the internet I'd probably have ended up on the "she's going a bit too far in her assertions" camp, since I find a lot of what she says on Feminist Frequency to be just a bit too hardline (I disagree with her analysis of Dollhouse for example, which I consider a bit too simplistic and condemning). But this being the internet, I have ended up being one of her proponents instead. I mean, there's a lot that can be said about her conclusions or what she picks up on in the games she's analysed so far, but nothing of it can be said to condemn her entire argument or ultimate goal.

As one of those that were already convinced of the need of better representation of women in games and a discussion about gamers attitudes towards women (both in games and as gamers), I agree with what she's trying to do. I don't necessarily agree with how she's doing it or the conclusions she's reaching however, but when put in a spot where I have to choose between supporting her or agreeing with the people that oppose her my choice ain't hard.
 

VanQ

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Oct 23, 2009
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I will take Anita seriously when she presents more than her opinion. She claims to use her videos and points in academic environments and claims they were intended for use in academia.

Yet she presents no sources, no research, no standard of evidence, not a thing. I have seen all her videos and read a lot of the things she has written. All I ever see is snarky shots taken at an industry using cherry picked examples taken out of context to smear the games industry.

Anita does not need to be discredited by me or by anyone. She had no credit to begin with. She is not an authority on video games and she is not a part of the industry. All I'm doing is pointing out that she has no evidence for any of her assertion that she is an expert in the field she claims to be.
 

Story

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Sep 4, 2013
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tangoprime said:
Story said:
Disclaimer: I have not yet the article, I'll read it after class.

I honestly can't go by the allegations about how she run her Kickstarter because everything is all hearsay. Unless I see real evidence about the things she was accused of, I'm not going to believe it.
Therefore, I just judge her on the content of her videos, which I think are actually rather good for a Feminist 101 type of thing. I mean pretty all of the things she mentioned were literally discussed in my Feminist 101 class in college only observed in particular media that happens to be the underused and young media that we all call video games. So yeah, I don't see what's so offensive about her work.
This is exactly the thing that made me a bit leery of her: the fact that her videos are middle of the road youtube quality, and pretty decent Feminist 101 material, but she leveraged over $150,000 out of a kickstarter to produce it. It just feels like a cash grab on her part, the kickstarter being a way to advertise (and create controversy for that sake) and the money being completely unnecessary to the project. Again... just my opinion, but she just feels dishonest to me and I can't shake it.

Just to reiterate my other opinions though, getting people to talk about the actual issues, especially as mentioned in this article, at the university level, is a good thing. I just wish there was someone who felt more honest behind it.
You have a right to your opinion. But I would argue that in her Kickstarter is asked for a lot less, I believe it was $6,000 or so? Something like that. Which personally I think is a fine goal to ask for research material and proper presentation equipment. So I have a feeling she never expected to get as much money as she did. Plus, she had the right to start a kickstarter for this project even for just a Youtube series. While I appreciate those that do dedicate their time and resources to produce really high quality and educational content on Youtube, I can understand if someone doesn't want to do things for free when they don't have to.

Also consider that the people who donated way beyond her goal choose to do so knowing full well of what type of quality she was capable of putting out. I mean, she had a few a videos prior to that Kickstarter.
 

Mid Boss

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Aug 20, 2012
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tangoprime said:
I can't speak for others, but I found the whole raising that much money thing for the videos that were put out (very slowly I might add) a bit shady. I mean, I can't remember what the initial goal was, but per the Kickstarter page still up, she's raised >$150,000 to make youtube videos in what looks like a spare room in her house, on top of the fact that she already had a fairly trafficked youtube channel (again, IIRC). To me, it felt like someone saying they want to create a small homeless shelter, but in order to do so, they absolutely need to raise 650,000,000 USD, before they'll get started, despite the fact that they've already been running soup kitchens.
She asked for 6,000. She got 160,000 because ass holes from all over the internet swarmed on her like killer bees which martyred her and made her famous.

Yes, they tried to strike her down and all it did was make her more powerful than they could possibly imagine.

She never asked for 160,000. That's just what people gave her because she was receiving death and rape threats. Say what you want about her videos now. But at that time no one knew who the hell she was so those death and rape threats had nothing to do with whether or not she was right or wrong, but ENTIRELY because people wanted her to shut her stupid female jew mouth and stop "ruining video games" for us straight, white, males.

Sadly, small inconvenient facts like that her foul mouthed attackers were the ones that made her that fortune doesn't stop them from accusing her of getting that much intentionally. Because to realize their own fault would require self awareness and, I dare say, logic beyond that of screeching monkey and they're just not capable of it.