The Most Dangerous Woman in Videogames - Anita Sarkeesian

[Paradoxrifts]

I will take Anita seriously when she presents more than her opinion.

I'll take your comment seriously when you present something other than your opinion.

Then you couldn't possibly be offended if I say that I'll start taking your opinion seriously when you stop trying to rely on other people's opinions to substantiate your own opinion?

It's difficult to be offended when someone says something so inaccurate. I'd ask you to show me where I said I use anyone's opinion in place of my own, but I'd die of old age before you could find an example.

Actions speak louder then words. And here you are again, belligerently defending Miss Sarkeesian's opinion as if it were your own. Or perhaps then you don't agree with her opinions, and you're engaged in the intellectually dishonest practice of offering her your support simply on the basis that she is both a woman and a feminist?

More swinging. More missing.

Are you going to be wrong all day? Or would you rather stop attempting whatever it is you're trying?

And like so very much like everything else going on in this thread, just because you claim loudly and repeatedly that I'm wrong doesn't actually prove that I'm in anyway incorrect.

 

[generals3]

If the media we consumed had no effect on us, then there would be no advertising. Instead, $171.7 billion was spent on advertising in the United States in 2013 alone.

Ironically advertisement follows cultural trends and not vice versa. And let's not forget that advertisement is very different by nature than let's say movies or games. Advertisement are actively trying to raise your awareness of a product/brand and convince you of its good price/quality. Ads actually affect people the same way the news does, it informs them about certain things (sometimes in a very misleading way).

 

[Atmos Duality]

Its pretty much one of those situations where you pretty much either can't change their mind or they are dead set in making themselves out to be big jerks. So I think its for the best to just laugh at em behind their backs.

Fair enough.

I think part of my problem is that I always thought that community on the Escapist was better than, well, that. Ever since Anita became a thing, I've been repeatedly proven wrong in my rosy view. **sigh**

I'd agree with this sentiment; though more broadly than just the Escapist.
Looking back, the entire "gaming world" is more unstable and polarized than it has ever been.

People are flipping the fuck out and generating fake controversy just to grab attention.
Sarkeesian herself could never have attained the level of support she has without the controversy and backlash. *shrugs*

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

Anita went outside and the internet trolls didn't follow her. She's discovered their one weakness!

It's good to hear that the evening went off without a hitch and that civility could be obtained once the setting moved away from the internet. I continue to be totally baffled by the intensely negative response that Anita draws out of people, but it does serve as a great example of what's wrong with the community and the industry in general. She's doing a lot of good and I hope she continues.

 

[ThreeKneeNick]

Movie Bob should stick to making videos, because this was really a bad read. Three pages but no substance. The majority of the first page is just filler to introduce Anita. And then it asserts that the internet is small, unaware of the irony. Then it vaguely repeats some of Anita's points but doesn't make any of it's own. And the bold letters everywhere ... why? Just why? This article has the stink of incendiary tabloidism all over it. As for Anita and her work, I haven't watched any of her videos (except for the one where she says she doesn't like video games in some presentation years ago) and I really don't care to get into the feminism discussion. But Movie Bob might just be ruined for me.

 

[Eve Charm]

I'd agree with this sentiment; though more broadly than just the Escapist.
Looking back, the entire "gaming world" is more unstable and polarized than it has ever been.

People are flipping the fuck out and generating fake controversy just to grab attention.
Sarkeesian herself could never have attained the level of support she has without the controversy and backlash. *shrugs*

Actually people are flipping out at this point because hell now it's actually changing things. Mass effect 3 got an new ending, TB got his video back up strike removed, Dota2 is getting diretide. While not everything is in right intentions people now NEED to yell back because hell what if something changes that they didn't want to change but since other people yelled it's going to, I.E. stanley parable self censoring and removing that song from LBP or something from the map in COD come to mind.

 

[Sofus]

Anita went outside and the internet trolls didn't follow her. She's discovered their one weakness!

It's good to hear that the evening went off without a hitch and that civility could be obtained once the setting moved away from the internet. I continue to be totally baffled by the intensely negative response that Anita draws out of people, but it does serve as a great example of what's wrong with the community and the industry in general. She's doing a lot of good and I hope she continues.

Alot of good for who?

If you take a look at Batman Arkham City and Origins, you will notice that you can brutally break the bones of most male thugs, but not the female ones. Tropes are unimportant, and from my point of view the real problem is that our genders are treated differently in almost every way.

I'm all for having both male and female protagonists, npc's and even tropes, but I think Anita even ruled out mass effect, the elder scrolls, fallout and any other game which usually feature our genders as being almost unimportant.

There is no way that we can have equality without uniformity.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Actually people are flipping out at this point because hell now it's actually changing things. Mass effect 3 got an new ending, TB got his video back up strike removed, Dota2 is getting diretide. While not everything is in right intentions people now NEED to yell back because hell what if something changes that they didn't want to change but since other people yelled it's going to, I.E. stanley parable self censoring and removing that song from LBP or something from the map in COD come to mind.

If the market is truly so far gone that only the most whiny irrational fuckheads are heard, then the market needs to collapse in on itself. It needs to be razed to ash and reseeded, because this...this is past fucking ridiculous.

Pardon my platitude here, but mob justice won't bring the change we want.
But it will bring the change we deserve.

 

[Gindil]

-snip-

Thank you for being one of other people talking common sense on this person. Don't want to be a drag or anything but I appreciate that people know what's going on instead of having blinders about this.

 

[Gindil]

Just a couple of questions to everyone on this forum regardless of the side you are on when it comes to this topic?

Have you guys actually taken the time to read her twitter? I mean really sit down and read her twitter?

Also, have you considered after reading her twitter what exactly her solution would actually effect the development of video games and if her solution would promote creative freedom or hinder creative freedom?

I actually have. The contradictions she does from her videos to her Twitter are just mind numbing...

 

[Karadalis]

Wow, 17 minutes and no comments yet? I wholly believed this place would be World War 5 by now, congratulations. As much as I believe her kickstarter was an unnecessary and dishonest cash grab, the notoriety it earned her is now letting her reach people academically, so that's a good thing.

academically, good one.

no, she is known to take unreliable sources and use material without permission and often contradicts herself win several of her works.
and that was before she stepped into the gaming area.

the gaming world was a gold mine for her views and career. she is just pointing out the obvious.

If what she says is obvious, why is there debate? I think it's because you don't understand most of what you wrote.

You mean all the hundrets of youtube vids that point out in great detail where she either lied or ripped some of her examples out of context?

Or that twitter piece where she admitted herselfe that no matter if its in the context of the story, violence against females is allways wrong?

Didnt saw her bitching about the legions of male characters and NPCs getting slaughtered day in and out in games btw.

So yeah... ignoring evidence and then screaming for evidence... classic.

 

[Emaruse]

Just a couple of questions to everyone on this forum regardless of the side you are on when it comes to this topic?

Have you guys actually taken the time to read her twitter? I mean really sit down and read her twitter?

Also, have you considered after reading her twitter what exactly her solution would actually effect the development of video games and if her solution would promote creative freedom or hinder creative freedom?

I actually have. The contradictions she does from her videos to her Twitter are just mind numbing...

Indeed. Not to mention, there's actually quite a few response videos for her videos, one in particular named "InuitInua" who basically rips her "facts" to pieces and shows that they're just ill-informed, deceitful, and overall false lies that some people believe due to the fact that Anita was bullied by the internet & they didn't want to do the research themselves (Or think they did.) Honestly, I hope we can either stop giving her attention, or someone, anyone with some testicular or uteric fortitude, pick apart everything she's said and call her out on her bull.

Now, I'm not saying her conversations are bad, per say. This actually needs to be talked about, women in video games and all. I just don't want Anita to be the spear-head to do it. Due to her videos, and her twit, I don't think she's qualified to lead the charge. Maybe be in the background, helping out, but not at the front lines. Mainly because, our most original female character is a Lovecraftian, Snake-Like Dinosaur, which is sad.

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

Anita went outside and the internet trolls didn't follow her. She's discovered their one weakness!

It's good to hear that the evening went off without a hitch and that civility could be obtained once the setting moved away from the internet. I continue to be totally baffled by the intensely negative response that Anita draws out of people, but it does serve as a great example of what's wrong with the community and the industry in general. She's doing a lot of good and I hope she continues.

Alot of good for who?

If you take a look at Batman Arkham City and Origins, you will notice that you can brutally break the bones of most male thugs, but not the female ones. Tropes are unimportant, and from my point of view the real problem is that our genders are treated differently in almost every way.

I'm all for having both male and female protagonists, npc's and even tropes, but I think Anita even ruled out mass effect, the elder scrolls, fallout and any other game which usually feature our genders as being almost unimportant.

There is no way that we can have equality without uniformity.

Please understand how it might be perceived by others when your major complaint about gender differences in video games is "I can't break women's bones".

 

[anthony87]

Very good post, it is a shame most of Anita's supporters wont read/respond to it.

I'm sure they'd respond to it. The response being that it's wrong because reasons.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

It's very circular a White English speaking...

I didn't know "White English" was a language. I'm pretty sure it's still English, even when people who aren't white speak it. Also, there are plenty of white people who don't speak English, and even people whose only language is English regularly butcher it.

The medium of this forum is text. I have yet to see anybody post actual pictures of themselves in their Escapist avatar - so how do you know what color a person's skin is? Just because they write in English doesn't say anything about their race or nationality. It's a widely adopted language internationally.

 

[Sofus]

Anita went outside and the internet trolls didn't follow her. She's discovered their one weakness!

It's good to hear that the evening went off without a hitch and that civility could be obtained once the setting moved away from the internet. I continue to be totally baffled by the intensely negative response that Anita draws out of people, but it does serve as a great example of what's wrong with the community and the industry in general. She's doing a lot of good and I hope she continues.

Alot of good for who?

If you take a look at Batman Arkham City and Origins, you will notice that you can brutally break the bones of most male thugs, but not the female ones. Tropes are unimportant, and from my point of view the real problem is that our genders are treated differently in almost every way.

I'm all for having both male and female protagonists, npc's and even tropes, but I think Anita even ruled out mass effect, the elder scrolls, fallout and any other game which usually feature our genders as being almost unimportant.

There is no way that we can have equality without uniformity.

Please understand how it might be perceived by others when your major complaint about gender differences in video games is "I can't break women's bones".

I was actually very aware of that and I expected that someone would point it out. Let me ask you, why do you think your reply wasn't about how it's wrong that we can break the bones of males in the first place?

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

Who's saying it wasn't? What does any of that add to gameplay in the first place? It wasn't my intention to turn the topic into one of video game violence but I can see how much of it can be seen as pointless and adding nothing. It's another of the factors that shapes public perception of the gaming community and the maturity levels within it.

Full disclosure: I have not played the Batman Arkham series and am only vaguely familiar with the gameplay.

 

[Arkynomicon]

I'm rather sick of the whole genus debate because a lot of people seems to think that someone needs to be punished on both ends. I have no sympathy for obnoxious people with an agenda because they don't have a shred of humility.

All I see in these videogame debates is people that are throwing a tantrum that they are not being panderd to.

It just infuriates me that people are wasting so much time and energy on telling people that they are having fun the wrong way.

Forcing your own opinion and ideology on someone else is frankly fascist.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Thats something that comes up a lot, for example in the GTAV review in Gamespot, its like they just ignored all the exaggeration to everyone else and only focused on the women, in that game everyone is a fucking stereotype and yet the women stereotype is the only one that matters, isnt that what being sexist is? Like, you can make fun of one gender and not the other? The game treats both genders with the same amount of disrespect but somehow it should only be applied to men to make it not sexist according to them.

The problem is that male characters are the only ones with any agency in the game. Sure, the game does make fun of male stereotypes, but at least you can play as one. The women in the game are presented nothing more than one-note jokes. (Of course, it is GTA, so it has a sense of humour and literacy of a 12-year-old, so not that surprising.)

Even the male protagonists who are ridiculed, are also shown to have complex and interesting lives as you play the game. Michael's mid-life crisis, Trevor's mother issues and schizophrenia, Franklin's battle between loyalty to his roots and freeing himself from them. There's nothing remotely like that for the female characters, the only female character development I recall was from an NPC, when Michael's wife decides to ditch the yoga instructor and stay with Michael - but even that's pretty shallow and revolves around the needs of the male player character.

 

[Icehearted]

I'd agree with this sentiment; though more broadly than just the Escapist.
Looking back, the entire "gaming world" is more unstable and polarized than it has ever been.

People are flipping the fuck out and generating fake controversy just to grab attention.
Sarkeesian herself could never have attained the level of support she has without the controversy and backlash. *shrugs*

Actually people are flipping out at this point because hell now it's actually changing things. Mass effect 3 got an new ending, TB got his video back up strike removed, Dota2 is getting diretide. While not everything is in right intentions people now NEED to yell back because hell what if something changes that they didn't want to change but since other people yelled it's going to, I.E. stanley parable self censoring and removing that song from LBP or something from the map in COD come to mind.

I think that's a gross overstatement about Mass Effect 3. I would also actually argue that changes to anything are not necessarily reflective of gaming movements as a whole but decisions made by a developer or studio on an individual basis. Definitely not reflective of a trend, not of anything changing, and none of this is exactly new. Hell I can remember when Mortal Kombat was censored on consoles, then changed due to fan backlash for the SNES, and that's just off the top of my head. Some studios fold, some do not, this is nothing new.