Well if we're going to play this game there are a very specific set of reasons why militaries are predominately male and the higher up you go into the likes of commandoes and spec ops the more the percentile tips away from women.maxben said:
The Needles: Lose the Dude
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Not sure I agree with you.
I don't think the problem is the characters, or even the story. Video games seem to constantly be retelling the story of Ulysses - and this has nearly universal appeal for men and women.
The problem is more marketing than the games themselves I think.(ha. a groundless assertion!)
I don't think the problem is the characters, or even the story. Video games seem to constantly be retelling the story of Ulysses - and this has nearly universal appeal for men and women.
The problem is more marketing than the games themselves I think.(ha. a groundless assertion!)
So you guys feel emasculated by a girl character?
Recently I've been choosing female characters in my games, when given a choice. Sure I don't play with the volume up, but... If I'm going to be staring at something for a while, why should it be a guy? That would be just as awkward IMHO, and a chic is much easier to explain (ie. "Lara Croft").
I started doing this with KOTOR 1. I'm glad I did, the romance between Revan, and Carth Onasi was much more entertaining. Carth's winy spurts were quite funny, reminded me of a lot of overheard phone calls (and a one of my own). What is so interesting about how easy Bastilla Shan turns out to be?
Speaking of which, it made the Bastilla Shan battle much more interesting. My health low, extremely low on supplies, and the Big Bad coming up, and I'd already died five times. I tried to talk Bastilla out of it once, but no go. I just wasn't willing to risk another 20 minutes to "possibly" save her, now that I finally had her beat. I mean, the fate of the galaxy hung in the balance! So I struck her down via a cutscene option.
Recently I've been choosing female characters in my games, when given a choice. Sure I don't play with the volume up, but... If I'm going to be staring at something for a while, why should it be a guy? That would be just as awkward IMHO, and a chic is much easier to explain (ie. "Lara Croft").
I started doing this with KOTOR 1. I'm glad I did, the romance between Revan, and Carth Onasi was much more entertaining. Carth's winy spurts were quite funny, reminded me of a lot of overheard phone calls (and a one of my own). What is so interesting about how easy Bastilla Shan turns out to be?
Speaking of which, it made the Bastilla Shan battle much more interesting. My health low, extremely low on supplies, and the Big Bad coming up, and I'd already died five times. I tried to talk Bastilla out of it once, but no go. I just wasn't willing to risk another 20 minutes to "possibly" save her, now that I finally had her beat. I mean, the fate of the galaxy hung in the balance! So I struck her down via a cutscene option.
Okay, first and foremost, thanks to all for pointing out that I am, at last check, XY. Not sure how that one slipped through, I'll talk to someone in the morning about changing it. 
Second thing, the point: I don't know. Take from it what you will. There have been several different suggestions posted, all of which bear some merit. The debate about gender inequality in game characters was obviously inspired by Activision's alleged "lose the chick" comment (and obviously, if you're unaware of that then the none of this will make much sense) and while there's no doubt an imbalance there, I don't think it's particularly relevant.
And seriously, do any of you guys play HOGs? It's all chicks, all the time.
Second thing, the point: I don't know. Take from it what you will. There have been several different suggestions posted, all of which bear some merit. The debate about gender inequality in game characters was obviously inspired by Activision's alleged "lose the chick" comment (and obviously, if you're unaware of that then the none of this will make much sense) and while there's no doubt an imbalance there, I don't think it's particularly relevant.
And seriously, do any of you guys play HOGs? It's all chicks, all the time.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's a bit late for that. If you think the chasm between PC and console gamers is yawning, you should have a look sometime at the divide between casual and core. A dozen Evel Knievel's ain't jumpin' that shit.oktalist said:
And there's a reason for it. There's going to be crossover, sure, but by and large it's the Jets and the Sharks. Your average Gears player has never heard of Alawar or Gogii; your average Unsolved Mystery Club fan probably doesn't even think of herself as a "gamer" at all.
And dude, seriously, your beloved, "inclusive" Firefly managed 14 episodes. That's not a good place to argue from. It's time to let go.
Oh, so casual = for girls, while core = for boys. Glad that's cleared up.Andy Chalk said:
And the reason is...?
I'm guessing they are sports teams of some description.
And she is right not to. Casual games don't factor into the discussion of gender inequality in core games. I said that already.
I picked Firefly at semi-random, as an example. I could have mentioned Heroes, or Lost, or any of thousands of other shows, but I didn't, because I'm not personally a fan of those, but they have managed more than 14 episodes (due to not being on Fox).
At the end of the day, there's nothing really wrong with your article; I just don't get it. Sorry. Maybe I'm just out of touch with the context in which it's meant to be read. I wouldn't have posted my comment, only I just thought I ought to balance out all the sparkling praise of other comments.
And yes I played a hidden object game once. My brain nearly tried to escape down my oesophagus.
There is of course one video game genre under whose banner the sexes unit freely and openly - online gambling!
Honestly, I think gamblers are like the pariahs of the video game world. And really, they're the most hardcore players of all. Like, "oh sorry it really sucks your KDR dropped from a 1.12 to a .08. You know what sucks more? Try losing your rent money in online Texas Hold Em." That's hardcore. Or, "What's that? You played REO Speedwagon's HOG for twelve hours straight? Well I just played online black jack for 24 hours straight and crapped into a waste basket I keep next to my computer rather than get up." HARDCORE.
Honestly, I think gamblers are like the pariahs of the video game world. And really, they're the most hardcore players of all. Like, "oh sorry it really sucks your KDR dropped from a 1.12 to a .08. You know what sucks more? Try losing your rent money in online Texas Hold Em." That's hardcore. Or, "What's that? You played REO Speedwagon's HOG for twelve hours straight? Well I just played online black jack for 24 hours straight and crapped into a waste basket I keep next to my computer rather than get up." HARDCORE.
Oh, I think I see what you did there.
I was expecting, though, for you to go "Okay, things aren't really like this, but do you see how absurd it is? This is what it's like now for the opposite gender."
Then again, maybe that wouldn't have got the same effect.
I was expecting, though, for you to go "Okay, things aren't really like this, but do you see how absurd it is? This is what it's like now for the opposite gender."
Then again, maybe that wouldn't have got the same effect.
This is where the discussion really begins, isn't it? Because while I detect a certain degree of snark in that comment, it's true. We all know it. How we feel about it, why we think it came about, what we think can be done about it or even should be done about it, on that we may differ, but there's no denying that it's true.oktalist said:
I'm not sure that I'm up for a "nature vs. nurture" argument at this hour.
And if casual games don't factor into a discussion about gender inequality in core games, then fair is fair and core games don't factor into a discussion about gender inequality in casual games. So once again I ask, why are nearly all the lead characters in videogames women?
The Jets and the Sharks, son. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Side_Story]
That's cool. "Getting it" is why we're here. If we all got it, we wouldn't have anything to talk about. The fun part now is figuring out what "it" is.
I read it as a comment on broader gender stereotyping than just to say that games made for women aspire to the 'feminine' icon. Sexism works two ways. Women MUST be.. whatever, and men MUST NOT portray any of those characteristics or they're not men. This is of course the same, from a different bent as the idea that whatever is 'feminine' is that which is not 'masculine'. In short it's a bullshit system of social order.The Random One said:
Excellent satire and a very amusing article. Well done.
Great article, Andy. Here's hoping there'll be someone who steps up and releases some decent titles with female protagonists. Ars did a piece [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/08/girl-gaming-company.ars] on Silicon Sisters [http://www.siliconsisters.ca/], and I'm hopeful that some of their titles finally provide some decent content (their COO seemed to know her stuff in the Ars interview), but I'll be skeptical until we see a release.
Some people should really just be fired from The Escapist before they spout any more nonsense...
Ha ha, my sides.
Not to be a downer or anything, it's well-done satire, but just exactly what are you trying to say with it?
Not to be a downer or anything, it's well-done satire, but just exactly what are you trying to say with it?
If I'm playing a third-person game of any kind, I'd much rather stare at the arse of a cute girly for the length of the game than some muscle-bound meat head. That may be completely missing the point of the article, but I'm not sure what that was exactly.
Ah, but if we are to continue this I will point out that this is a military in the future.manythings said:
There is very little reason to not have more women in tougher combat roles.
It is Sci Fi after all, if we can travel through space and colonize it why can there not be gender equality in the military?
In fact, it seems like the second will come before the first.
This reminds me of the almost decade-old Jeff Freeman article, "Chicks in Gaming." Gather 'round, youngins, and read what was wrote when the net was young(er).
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/acksep97.html
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/acksep97.html
Ok guys, since this is going way the hell over some people's heads, let me explain how it works:
The point here is to repeat the arguments made about "too many male heroes" from a the opposite side and see what the implications are. It's about looking at an argument from a different perspective where you can more easily see some of the screwy things about it.
It's not supposed to have one simple point. It's supposed to raise questions. How valid would this argument be if made in earnest? Why would it be less valid than the argument it's modeled after? What kind of assumptions is he making here, and how are they different from the ones originally made?
The point here is to repeat the arguments made about "too many male heroes" from a the opposite side and see what the implications are. It's about looking at an argument from a different perspective where you can more easily see some of the screwy things about it.
It's not supposed to have one simple point. It's supposed to raise questions. How valid would this argument be if made in earnest? Why would it be less valid than the argument it's modeled after? What kind of assumptions is he making here, and how are they different from the ones originally made?