The New Shiny Escapist

[Benny Blanco]

I fear change...

 

[Susan Arendt]

-snip-

Certainly, Susan. Nonetheless is the site as it was redesigned ... not much aid to that goal of making it more streamlined. Yes, the old site was cluttered in some parts and I agree that it turned out better - in those parts. But the mainpage is still a clusterfuck of randomness.
(And it was before just as well, the main difference people see now, though, is that it has much less visible structures than before. But for instance the complaints about the randomness with the sizes and positions of the features on the mainpage are considerably misplaced, as the old mainpage had the same issues, just not as obvious as now.)

That said, I'm a Web Developer, not a Designer ... I can only tell as much, it's merely a radical turn that has some major flaws in some departments, but also some major improvements in others, and as such gives the viewer this classy "It's change, and I see bad points!!!!" feeling.
That doesn't mean, though, that, when people complain about the current design, it's an issue of them actually hating it overall. It's more that they feel the need to address those problems first of all, to get them solved immediately, or at least as soon as possible. And, in all honesty, I understand that. And I know that it's an issue of a bunch of hours to get everything done properly when such complaints pop up. And I understand that some things read like a slap to the face ... But that's what our, and our colleagues' jobs are like, and will always be like.

Dramatic calls for a boycott, or leaving the Escapist, may not be the most appropriate or most desirable way to express ones' complaints, but it's one that needs to be seen as a statement. People wouldn't leave, if their complaints didn't have at least some grounding - unless they wanted to leave anyways and just looked for a reason.

Sooo ... what did I want to say with the core of this post again? .. Ah right ... Noone wants to call you guys drunk clueless jackasses. But it's the way it reads, as the negative points are what immediately jumps to ones eye, and need to be solved asap. And that's all the community wants to tell you guys ... Wrong wording at some points, sure ... But it's neither anything new to the Internet or the Escapist. Heck it isn't even new to the human kind overall. That's how people express their issues with anything they don't like ... Stomping their feet. Either with rather ... soft and respectful wording ... Or with a can of shit spurted out.
Both are valid and both are just as true. The latter does sound worse, disrespectful and whatnot. But it's the same thing, and something one has to deal with in this environment ... As offensive and disgusting it is, it's unavoidable, sadly ...

I'm just going to have to disagree with you on that final point, that it's unavoidable. Believe me, I understand people's reactions, and genuinely want to hear what people find fault with. But if you can't treat me with respect, I'm not going to listen to you - just as you wouldn't want to listen to me if I was being disrespectful towards you. (And I don't mean you, specifically, because obviously you're being perfectly civil and lovely. It's the greater "you".)

Look Susan you guys are offering a service and while you may not need to count on every member as you don't essentially plan on sales except for the pub club members you still need them to load up your ads. Most of the backslash isn't even disrespectful I understand the Escapist is a brand to you that you hold dear and this may also impact the blow of the harsh words a lot are given. Harsh but still constructive criticism, I may be wrong but I haven't seen one post labeling anyone a jackass or belittle anyone. If anything I've seen where people referred (myself included) to the design/code as amateurish. It's a harsh realization but it's true.

I wish I could have talked the way you do to my customers when I was in retail. You don't get that type of freedom you sit there and listen to all the things that come out of his/her mouth cause they are pissed off without saying anything back except "yes sir" "yes ma'am". I might want to find them in a back alley someday but that still doesn't change the fact something is wrong to the point they are irate.

Most are willing to cope with the new design, they just asked for a simple background to kill the white something that literally would take a minute of a designers time and yet here we are day 3 with blinding madness.

Call it whatever way you want but when there is 857 comments and only 10 or so agree with the change without any kind of negative there is something obviously wrong with the way it is now. I know we are just sheep to you guys but still the sheep need grass to survive. Leave them starving too long and they will look for new grass.

See, this is part of what really upsets me. You "know" you're just sheep to us? Why would I be taking the time to talk to any of you about this if that's how I felt? If we didn't care about the community's general happiness, we wouldn't be asking for feedback.

And it's far more than 10 comments, I assure you - you also have no idea the kind of emails and PMs we've gotten. Yes, many people are being perfectly reasonable and civil, and we genuinely appreciate that. But don't assume that simply because you don't see something happening that it isn't. I'm not talking about saying "I really don't like this" or "This hurts my eyes." I'm talking about people being genuinely, truly disrespectful, nasty, and rude.

Obviously, if certain comments keep cropping up, then that's clearly an area we need to consider. The color scheme is something that seems to be a recurring theme, so naturally that's an aspect of the redesign that we're going to think about addressing.

 

[Shadesong]

Call it whatever way you want but when there is 857 comments and only 10 or so agree with the change without any kind of negative there is something obviously wrong with the way it is now. I know we are just sheep to you guys but still the sheep need grass to survive. Leave them starving too long and they will look for new grass.

Grass that isn't flinging flashbangs at the sheep whilst cackling maniacally at the destruction inflicted upon their retinas.

Anyway, the bold above pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter, though my visits to The Escapist have dwindled lately; but the general vibe coming from this thread seems to be that the users aren't too fond of the new design and I'm perfectly inclined to agree. I don't feel I need to further elaborate, it's all been said already.

 

[Furioso]

This place would not be the same without your voice!

According to members of the pub club, the pub club guys who got to view this early gave almost universally negative feedback, which was apparently completely ignored, is anyone going to address those accusations?

Also can't you guys at least give us a quick fix for the blinding white background, it should not be physically painful to view this website

 

[Gincairn]

personally I'm not a fan of the new look, for the simple reason that it took more 5 clicks to get to the latest episode of The Big Picture as opposed to just 1.

Why remove all the content links to make people hunt for it?

 

[drivel]

SO. UGLY.

 

[viranimus]

Is it possible under this new formatting to utilize .asp modules for the main profile page so that users can either close or minimize modules they find useless?

the way I am seeing it there is still too much redundancy on the profile page. For example the new "Your recent posts" table seems highly redundant when it only shows you your last 2 posts, Granted it does provide additional information like quiz scores and last friend/badge, but that is fairly useless information. Given that "Recent Comments section gives you a listing of the last 5 posts as opposed to the last 2, It would make sense to either close or minimize that module because the information it provides is lacking in relevance and as such is additional clutter.

Another one is the Escapist of Twitter and Facebook stories you might like feeds. I know I am not the only one but I have no interest in facebook/twitter. (I have no twitter and my facebook has a whopping 5 people on it) So I have little or no interest in cluttering up my escapist profile page with a feed of information I am not going to look at.

I mean I do see what your driving at. You in essence trying to create a sidebar that follows you on every page you visit on the site, but that information seems very redundant when you remember you have a profile page that gives the same info, in a more compressed format, and with more data.

(EDIT: So out of curiosity, is that why this is being done? To encourage people to explore the site more, instead of doing what most users generally do, parking on their profile page and either selecting the video/article they wish to view or hitting F5 to refresh to see if they got a new message or look to see if there are new posts in the latest/most post feeds?)

The advantage to being able to either close/minimize each module of data can dramatically help improve navigation as those modules will not have to load with each and every page. My suggestion is to allow the profile page to be where you pick and choose your individual layout preferences and let people have more control over the data they are seeing. Given that that sort of a layout option is something thats been pretty commonplace since 2002 I cant see that as being something too complex or out of reach of the developers.

 

[Hashbrick]

-snip-

Certainly, Susan. Nonetheless is the site as it was redesigned ... not much aid to that goal of making it more streamlined. Yes, the old site was cluttered in some parts and I agree that it turned out better - in those parts. But the mainpage is still a clusterfuck of randomness.
(And it was before just as well, the main difference people see now, though, is that it has much less visible structures than before. But for instance the complaints about the randomness with the sizes and positions of the features on the mainpage are considerably misplaced, as the old mainpage had the same issues, just not as obvious as now.)

That said, I'm a Web Developer, not a Designer ... I can only tell as much, it's merely a radical turn that has some major flaws in some departments, but also some major improvements in others, and as such gives the viewer this classy "It's change, and I see bad points!!!!" feeling.
That doesn't mean, though, that, when people complain about the current design, it's an issue of them actually hating it overall. It's more that they feel the need to address those problems first of all, to get them solved immediately, or at least as soon as possible. And, in all honesty, I understand that. And I know that it's an issue of a bunch of hours to get everything done properly when such complaints pop up. And I understand that some things read like a slap to the face ... But that's what our, and our colleagues' jobs are like, and will always be like.

Dramatic calls for a boycott, or leaving the Escapist, may not be the most appropriate or most desirable way to express ones' complaints, but it's one that needs to be seen as a statement. People wouldn't leave, if their complaints didn't have at least some grounding - unless they wanted to leave anyways and just looked for a reason.

Sooo ... what did I want to say with the core of this post again? .. Ah right ... Noone wants to call you guys drunk clueless jackasses. But it's the way it reads, as the negative points are what immediately jumps to ones eye, and need to be solved asap. And that's all the community wants to tell you guys ... Wrong wording at some points, sure ... But it's neither anything new to the Internet or the Escapist. Heck it isn't even new to the human kind overall. That's how people express their issues with anything they don't like ... Stomping their feet. Either with rather ... soft and respectful wording ... Or with a can of shit spurted out.
Both are valid and both are just as true. The latter does sound worse, disrespectful and whatnot. But it's the same thing, and something one has to deal with in this environment ... As offensive and disgusting it is, it's unavoidable, sadly ...

I'm just going to have to disagree with you on that final point, that it's unavoidable. Believe me, I understand people's reactions, and genuinely want to hear what people find fault with. But if you can't treat me with respect, I'm not going to listen to you - just as you wouldn't want to listen to me if I was being disrespectful towards you. (And I don't mean you, specifically, because obviously you're being perfectly civil and lovely. It's the greater "you".)

Look Susan you guys are offering a service and while you may not need to count on every member as you don't essentially plan on sales except for the pub club members you still need them to load up your ads. Most of the backslash isn't even disrespectful I understand the Escapist is a brand to you that you hold dear and this may also impact the blow of the harsh words a lot are given. Harsh but still constructive criticism, I may be wrong but I haven't seen one post labeling anyone a jackass or belittle anyone. If anything I've seen where people referred (myself included) to the design/code as amateurish. It's a harsh realization but it's true.

I wish I could have talked the way you do to my customers when I was in retail. You don't get that type of freedom you sit there and listen to all the things that come out of his/her mouth cause they are pissed off without saying anything back except "yes sir" "yes ma'am". I might want to find them in a back alley someday but that still doesn't change the fact something is wrong to the point they are irate.

Most are willing to cope with the new design, they just asked for a simple background to kill the white something that literally would take a minute of a designers time and yet here we are day 3 with blinding madness.

Call it whatever way you want but when there is 857 comments and only 10 or so agree with the change without any kind of negative there is something obviously wrong with the way it is now. I know we are just sheep to you guys but still the sheep need grass to survive. Leave them starving too long and they will look for new grass.

See, this is part of what really upsets me. You "know" you're just sheep to us? Why would I be taking the time to talk to any of you about this if that's how I felt? If we didn't care about the community's general happiness, we wouldn't be asking for feedback.

And it's far more than 10 comments, I assure you - you also have no idea the kind of emails and PMs we've gotten. Yes, many people are being perfectly reasonable and civil, and we genuinely appreciate that. But don't assume that simply because you don't see something happening that it isn't. I'm not talking about saying "I really don't like this" or "This hurts my eyes." I'm talking about people being genuinely, truly disrespectful, nasty, and rude.

Obviously, if certain comments keep cropping up, then that's clearly an area we need to consider. The color scheme is something that seems to be a recurring theme, so naturally that's an aspect of the redesign that we're going to think about addressing.

Fair enough Susan. You're right I don't know the PMs you guys are getting, but I do know the internet and I can only imagine what childish things were said. The reason why people have so much backlash is they see nothing is still done after their feedback. I won't go on anymore at least you are here over-seeing the feedback and that's appreciative in itself just not the way you came out with it.

 

[Deathninja19]

I don't understand the complaints about the white. Books are black on white, and everyone has been fine with them for the past six hundred years.

Books aren't backlit on an LCD screen, I mean even at a low brightness it's making my eyes water and I'm in a well lit room.

 

[Monshroud]

Hi Escapist Staff,
So I tried giving this a few days to get used to, and being one of the PubClub members I had early access to the new site. Here's my feedback for what it is worth, I know I am going to echo a lot of what has already been said, but maybe my two cents will add some additional weight.

Overall I like the layout of the new site. I am still not used to it in terms of being able to find all the content, but it is nice.

That's sadly all the good I have to say. Here's a list of what I think needs some tweaking.

1> The textured background on the sides needs to either revert to the blue gradient or be darkened somehow. On a 1920x1080 display, the combination of the texture on the sides fading into the white of the pages creates this bloom effect that I find tires my eyes very quickly. Maybe try going all white on the sides?

2> I am not enjoying the new font choices. I am finding them difficult to read. I am referring right now about the fonts for the "Most Popular" and the stories below. Even on the top menu bar, I can't pin it down, but the esthetic doesn't match how I view The Escapist brand.

3> I don't have any friends on The Escapist, so on the main page for my profile I just see a broken image "X" symbol next to "Friend Made". There should be a default blank placeholder, or maybe a frown face.

4> Going to the video page, the most recent videos are not always the ones displayed. For instance a day ago it was showing the MovieBob review from mid-november. Why wouldn't the most recent episodes always be displayed. If you had that under a sub-section that said "Most Viewed" or something like that it would make sense.

5> Maybe there is a large influx of people right now due to the new layout, but overall website response has been quite slow. Maybe this is a backend issue, either way over the past two days, when trying to view various forums, I kept getting No Response errors. I know the problem was not on my end since I would refresh the page and open another window and go to another site and the other site would immediately come up.

Those are the big issues for me right now. I really hope you take this information to heart, and look forward to see what you do next.

- Monshroud.

 

[Gemannihilator]

I don't mind the new layout, I'm just glad the site's loading quickly again.

 

[Timmons]

the blue banner at the top should be thicker, the page shouldn't be white and the fonts don't all match up :S

 

[jaaedwards]

To add my voice. The biggest loss is the sidebar showing the regular shows and what the current episode is. I check the Escapist most days. I know what's current and what isn't, and I like to see at a glance if I'm up to date.

If I miss a few days, and the new Escape to the Movies has come and gone through the immediate news feed, there's no immediate way to know that there's a new episode.

I don't want to scroll through lots of stuff, I just want to see the 3-4 video shows I watch regularly.

 

[Jack Rascal]

-sorry to cut-

Escapist is one of my favourite sites, but the change is not all that nice.

Your old design looked like you (if that makes sense). If I ever saw a glimpse of something similar, it reminded me of you. Your new design does not have personality; it has lost all its colour and warmth. The top bar reminds me of Facebook and all the white really does hurt my eyes.

What comes to the layout, I am sure I will adjust in time. It took me a while to learn my way around here in the beginning as well, as on any new site. But please bring back your colour, that soothing blue. My eyes are tired after a day at the office, please don't make me close the browser and have a life.

If Pub Club offered a chance to revert back to the old design, I would send you the membership fee by post; each dollar carefully wrapped around a rose.

 

[Shadu]

It's really, bleh...to me.

It's almost driving me away. I just don't like the look of it. Too bright, as people have mentioned, and it feels incredibly busy and clustered. I loved the old layout. I'm not a fan of this one.

 

[karkar]

It seems slower and has trouble loading some pages. Dunno if that's just happening for me or everyone else, too

 

[Susan Arendt]

Also, folks, this should go without saying, but we're far more likely to listen to your feedback if you're not being a total cock while delivering it. (This obviously doesn't apply to to the post I'm quoting, which is perfectly fine.) We're not trying to fuck anyone over, or trick anybody, or just generally ruin your experience because we think it's hilarious to watch you all freak out. We launched the redesign in response to a great deal of feedback that we got, over several years, that our old site was confusing, cluttered, and just plain hard to use. If the new design we've chosen needs a bit of tweaking yet, that's ok - we didn't really expect it to be perfect right out of the gate. That's why we're asking for feedback, so that we can focus on the areas that really, truly don't work for you guys and try to find some kind of compromise.

Speaking to us like we're all clueless jackasses who just got drunk one night and decided to fuck up the site just for kicks doesn't help anyone. We all work very, very hard on The Escapist, not just because it's our jobs, but because we believe in it. We want it to be great. We want it to be something that you genuinely look forward to visiting every single day. And we're pretty sure you want it to be that, too.

So how about giving us the benefit of the doubt that we genuinely want to move forward in a positive way, and stop talking to us like we're beneath your contempt?

It is difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt when you made this design in the first place, then pushed it through in contempt of all the PC member complaints, and still acknowledge none of the criticism. Besides, there are real reasons why you would want to ruin the experience for regular members: to attract more new members or to get more ad revenue, for example.

How are we not acknowledging any of the criticism? Because we haven't immediately changed things overnight? That's not a very realistic view. We can't respond to every single comment - just this thread has 26 pages, and it's just one source of feedback. Relax, be patient. We really are paying attention.

And if you genuinely think we would TRY to send regulars running for the hills...I honestly don't even know how to respond to that. It's such an absurd idea that I can't even fathom the logic behind it. Sure, we want more ad revenue, but a drastic drop in traffic isn't exactly the first thing ad firms look for when deciding how to spend their money. Yes, we want to attract new readers, but not at the expense of readers who already enjoy our content. The fact that you think we'd do something so shitty is really depressing. "Sure, the people who've kept the lights on for years will hate it and leave in droves but to hell with them!" Sorry, that's just not how we are.

 

[Don Reba]

I don't understand the complaints about the white. Books are black on white, and everyone has been fine with them for the past six hundred years.

Books aren't backlit on an LCD screen, I mean even at a low brightness it's making my eyes water and I'm in a well lit room.

This still doesn't makes sense to me. Almost all websites are white: Google, Facebook, Reddit, Slashdot, Stackoverflow, BBC, Guardian, National Post, etc. If you are editing a Word document, you're starting at white, if you are working with Excel, it is almost all white, Kindle for PC is black on white by default. Being white is the screen's most common state. If it hurts your eyes in a well-lit room, then something is seriously wrong.

 

[Charli]

Slow, too bright and the font looks awful on my screen... though reading this I think I might be one of the few who see it, but yeah the default news font looks like arse.

 

[LeeHarveyO]

I don't care for it, they have fixed the loading speed issues but at the same time I find it harder to browse through older news and even the current news.