The Order: 1886 Runs at 30 FPS for a "Filmic Look"

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Compatriot Block

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This announcement was going to go poorly whether or not it was true.

It doesn't matter if it could actually run at 60 fps. People will decide that they are lying and nothing will convince them otherwise, because they'd rather be cynical and right than optimistic and wrong.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Gundam GP01 said:
Yes, the PS4 is weaker than my mid range rig. But if those scrawny stats forced them to use the lower framerate, and we get a game with a neat artistic vision because of it? Then awesome.
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I fail to see any artistic or stylistic substance in framerate....

I mean going for a stylised style is working within your limits

30FPS? thats just having limits

Elijin said:
This video game is meant to be a retro/noir thing with an old style and dark storyline isnt? In other words, even if it is a case of not being able to get to 60, they saw a way to embrace that thematically, and went for it. Good for them, screw all of you.
!
I wouldnt care if 30fps was too hard for them technically...but calling it "artistic" is just reaching...and dishonest
 

Reaper195

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But movies look shit at 24FPS. Having scene the Hobbit and season 2 of Video Game High School at 48FPS, I much prefer a sharper image and something that looks...well, more real. The sluggish movments in film can fuck right off.
 

Rellik San

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Elijin said:
This video game is meant to be a retro/noir thing with an old style and dark storyline isnt? In other words, even if it is a case of not being able to get to 60, they saw a way to embrace that thematically, and went for it. Good for them, screw all of you.
By that logic, shouldn't Lord of the Rings really be shown as nothing more than a series of wood block prints?
 

Flammablezeus

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The difference with film is that each frame is slightly blurred because of the motion of the actors and anything else being filmed. This leads to it looking smooth. However, video games give a sharp image as it's rendered, since the footage isn't being filmed, which is why anything below 50 or 60 fps looks so choppy.
 

J Tyran

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Well thats what happens when you make a game for a "supercharged PC", shame really because the art style and world for this game look interesting. Yet its going to be less than it could be because of the hardware limitations, so far this gen of consoles is disappointing as they are just slight improvements over the last.

Still games do look a bit better than the last gen and console only players get to experience games the way PC gamers did a few years back.
 

Rellik San

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beef_razor said:
I still don't get this 60 vs 30 fps thing. I have games that run both and the difference is so small to me it doesn't even matter. Maybe I'm missing something here.
A lot of it is more to do with "feel" than it is "look".

A game at 60fps is smoother to play, it's smoother to aim with, it's easier to time dodges, it just "feels" more responsive and the animation feels far more crisp.

At 30 fps, as others have said you end up with a slightly choppy feel, 30-60fps can mean the difference between getting that head shot and just missing it, which is why frame rate is seen as such a big deal, noticeable or not, the difference is simply a smoother more responsive experience.

Of course unless you have a side by side comparison it can be tough to noticeably spot the aforementioned difference.

This website is a great way of illustrating the difference it can make: http://www.30vs60fps.com/
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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TheKasp said:
Bullshitisment?
the red ring of death provides you with an excuse to get a shiney new console! who doesn't like new things!?

those pixelated textures are a retro callback!

the microtransaction make the game go faster for you!

we downgraded the graphics so you can fill in the detail with your imagination!

the ending tells you absolutly nothing so you can make up your own ending!

....works for me
 

Elijin

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NuclearKangaroo said:
you had to go ahead and ruin my analogy didnt you?

fine, 2 legged chair einstein
Worth noting your analogy still works, just not in your favour.

See, some people clearly think the only way to make a decent working chair, is with 4 legs. They feel thats the only way to go. But you can build decent working chairs with any number of legs, and still get a great chair. There isnt a single way to do things.
 

Remaiki

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I'm always loath to engage in such discussions as these, but this is, quite simply, absolute next-level bullshit. If they truly wanted to go all the way with the aesthetic, to truly make the art they apparently wanted to make, then they should have simply locked it at 24 FPS and got the look they were going for. The difference between 24 FPS and 30 FPS is a lot less than the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS, as I'm sure we can all agree.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Elijin said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
you had to go ahead and ruin my analogy didnt you?

fine, 2 legged chair einstein
Worth noting your analogy still works, just not in your favour.

See, some people clearly think the only way to make a decent working chair, is with 4 legs. They feel thats the only way to go. But you can build decent working chairs with any number of legs, and still get a great chair. There isnt a single way to do things.
you completely missed the point of my analogy

my analogy was that, by trying to make an object better at something it isnt, you may end up making the object worse for the purpose it was created

maybe i shouldve used cars for my analogy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8

believe me, i dont doubt these devs can accomplish the "hard" task of making a video game that runs at 30 FPS, but if you actually made the game run at 30 FPS for artistic reasons, to make it look like a film (something that obviously wasnt the case, this is a very poor excuse) they make their creation a worse video game

Remaiki said:
I'm always loath to engage in such discussions as these, but this is, quite simply, absolute next-level bullshit. If they truly wanted to go all the way with the aesthetic, to truly make the art they apparently wanted to make, then they should have simply locked it at 24 FPS and got the look they were going for. The difference between 24 FPS and 30 FPS is a lot less than the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS, as I'm sure we can all agree.
actually no, yes is less frames per second, but a game at 30 FPS is very playable, a game at 24 FPS, almost isnt
 

LazyAza

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Have people even SEEN how good this game looks visually? I'm amazed they're able to even get it running smoothly at 30.

It's literally the first game I've seen where I've thought huh that looks like a cgi cutscene. The visuals are jaw dropping.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well dear Dana Jan you apparently have absolutely no clue how these two technologies work.
A 24fps analog camera recording still captures the entire 42ms time frame of movement which is why even if blurry things look very fluid. A 30 fps graphic rendering however captures a time frame of absolute zero so the entire segment of 33ms is showing a completely dead static picture, which is also why your game looks incredibly choppy.

Does it matter for everyone? Well sadly no, people who can tell the difference will see this as night and day, but those who can't or don't want to will never know there is something off.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Just like everyone else in the thread I suspect this to be a poor attempt to apologise for not being able to run it at 60, but honestly, I don't think I've ever noticed the difference between a game at 30 and one at 60. I haven't had a good opportunity to notice either, but that's not really the point. I'm just happy if it stays the same and is above 20.
 

endnuen

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LazyAza said:
Have people even SEEN how good this game looks visually? I'm amazed they're able to even get it running smoothly at 30.

It's literally the first game I've seen where I've thought huh that looks like a cgi cutscene. The visuals are jaw dropping.
Apparently not. I'll take the improved visuals/physics and consistent 30 FPS over 60 FPS.
The PC master race are just impossible to please. At all. Ever.
 

Twinrehz

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Okay, time to drag people through a quick brain storm, based a little on guesswork and assumption, but it shouldn't be that far off the mark. (Feel free to check facts, though, I love corrections).

Back in the days of olde, when movie was a fresh new fancy medium, and for a substantial amount of time after that, movies were shot using long rolls of tape, on things called reels. As you might imagine, this could get pretty expensive, and I would assume they used some sort of audience to test how few frames they could have, without the movie becoming too choppy. 24FPS seems like a decent number, if the flicker fusion threshold is 17FPS (thanks gamespot). This would reduce the cost, since it would reduce the amount of film rolls needed.

Fast forward to modern day, the 24FPS has since then become a trend, so this is what movie makers assume the people are used to, and why mess up something that people are used to. I don't know what resolution or FPS raw film is shot in nowadays, but we most certainly have the technology to process large amounts of raw film without having to limit the FPS to 24, unless the movies are shot in 50k (which I highly doubt).
I reckon the films are shot in 24FPS as well though, to lessen the transition between raw film and finished product. It seems the whole "save money on production"-idea is still in the minds of movie makers, but that they keep applying this to the shooting of a film, in a time where the digital medium allows the shooting of 500 extra hours at the expense of a few GBs, is ridiculous. There shouldn't BE a need to resort to the old idea of 24FPS any more, because that was done to save money, and they don't use movie reels any more.

If it is done to please the elitist or retro crowd, then we have basically failed. We've practically stopped technological advancement because it doesn't suit a minority that thinks everything must stay the same, because of a crowd that thinks that's how it was done, that's how it should be done. Old-fashioned thinking for old-fashioned world.

To get back on topic, I personally love high framerates, the smooth movement of high resolution images, where every detail is crisp and clear. I can see the problem with technical limitation, but like people in the thread keep saying, hiding it as a gimmick when it very well could be a technical limitation is ridiculous, especially in a first person shooter, where movement and precision is key. It has been tested multiple times, higher framerate allows higher precision, because while the eye can't "see" beyond 30FPS (which is bullshit, I can easily see the difference between 30 and 60FPS), your hand "sees" a much higher fps, allowing for a much higher precision, especially first person shooters. Hand-to-eye coordination, so to speak. (I read an article on this a few months ago, I don't remember the wording they used).
 

RedDeadFred

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How could they not expect people to call bullshit on this? Hell, even if it's true and they really believe it will look better at 30FPS they still should have lied and said it was due to technical limitations. At least you won't look incredibly foolish and incompetent that way.
 

carnex

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OK, they might have made that outlook from the beginning, just like with 1920X800 resolution for certain effect but reality is that benefits were also important driving power.

Fact is power of a console is a final tally that everything has to add to. Reducing resolution and cutting down on framerate is a tradeoff to put more power into quality of graphics or whatever other thing they decide to use that power. It's a single player game and they decided that 30FPS is plenty good for that. It's not twitch shooter or driving simulation where smoothness of animation is of a crucial benefit for gameplay. I'm all about gameplay and atmosphere and framerate rarely adds to it.

Now, if we think from marketing perspective most media we look at games and advertisement do not carry 60fps images. There for better graphics and more details win over additional smoothness outside few genres which do benefit from higher frame rates. Smoother animation does add to experience, but if game doesn't include fast sweeping movements on regular basis effects are not really perceivable when not looking for it in heat of battle. And Order 1886 looks like it's designed not to include fast and large sweeping movements.

In conclusion, Fallout New Vegas was 30fps. Was it bad? Not by any merits in my book. I would like 60fps. I would like 120fps (and that will be needed for VR to avoid at least some of nauseating effect) but with power as finite resource and demand for power exponentially increasing with increase of resolution and FPS compromises will be made. Order could have been at 1920X1080 at 60FPS but game wouldn't look anything close to how it looks now.
 

endnuen

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TheKasp said:
How is it that other, better looking games can deliver on 1080p and unlimited fps?
Bold statement, but just that. A statement. Please tell me which games this is?