The Oregon shooting

[Thaluikhain]

And of course there would be an increase in other methods. There are people who want to kill themselves and, frankly, they're going to find a method to do it if they want it badly enough. Hell, the Japanese have an issue with people throwing themselves in front of trains as well as a generally pretty high suicide rate.

Guns are just quicker.

Oops, that should have been "without", not "with". People (predominantly men) didn't use other methods instead, as it's much easier and simpler and likely to work to kill yourself with a firearm than by most other methods.

If people want it badly enough, sure, they'll find a way. Evidently a substantial amount wanted it badly enough to use a firearm, but not enough to use another method.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Oops, that should have been "without", not "with". People (predominantly men) didn't use other methods instead, as it's much easier and simpler and likely to work to kill yourself with a firearm than by most other methods.

If people want it badly enough, sure, they'll find a way. Evidently a substantial amount wanted it badly enough to use a firearm, but not enough to use another method.

Bit of a difference there. >_>

But, yeah, looking at the numbers I do see a pretty big decrease. However, hanging appears to be (significantly) on the rise, at least proportionally, while the per capita rate (in some regions) has about halved (it's gone up in others) over the course of those two decades from 88 to 07, which includes all methods, not just guns. Apparently it's about an 8% drop in total deaths, all told.

This is an interesting read:

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/192/8/suicide-australia-meta-analysis-rates-and-methods-suicide-between-1988-and-2007

Not exactly up to date, but it still covers a good decade pre and post enactment of the law.

Edit: Further, I don't think you could just dismiss the decline as being owed exclusively to the relative ease of firearm use/access. Plenty of factors at work here. A lot's changed over the last few decades; globally, medically, and in terms of the field of psychology.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Going on a stabbing spree ends in a lot less bodies than a shooting spree.

Who said anything about stabbing?

*****, Please! Get out of here with your measly fireworks. Let me show you a true attack: 168 Dead, Hundreds wounded. [http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/18/oklahoma-city-bombing-s-unanswered-questions-in-new-book/jcr:content/image.img.2000.jpg/1334839463502.cached.jpg]

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"There's no way of preventing this!", says the country where this only happens.

 

[otakon17]

Yeah heard about this recently as well, shame. That Mintz guy though, he's a damn stellar person for what he did, good on him his donations are going so swimmingly. I've always had a question, why not instead of restricting the guns, restrict the ammunition? Guns are freaking useless without it, tell folks they can have all the massive guns they want but they can't be allowed to buy the ammo for'em and limit all others to extremely limited quantities over the course of years. Ban the sales of any kits that allow someone to make their own ammunition from spent casings and the supplies of such. That sort of thing.

There, you can have all the guns you want, but not the ammo to use them.

 

[Leg End]

Going on a stabbing spree ends in a lot less bodies than a shooting spree.

Who said anything about stabbing?

*****, Please! Get out of here with your measly fireworks. Let me show you a true attack: 168 Dead, Hundreds wounded. [http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/18/oklahoma-city-bombing-s-unanswered-questions-in-new-book/jcr:content/image.img.2000.jpg/1334839463502.cached.jpg]

Far better in example but was aiming generally at school attacks. Still works.

I've always had a question, why not instead of restricting the guns, restrict the ammunition? Guns are freaking useless without it, tell folks they can have all the massive guns they want but they can't be allowed to buy the ammo for'em and limit all others to extremely limited quantities over the course of years. Ban the sales of any kits that allow someone to make their own ammunition from spent casings and the supplies of such. That sort of thing.

There, you can have all the guns you want, but not the ammo to use them.

Because that is also a violation of the second amendment. It's kind of like saying "damn, they have their pesky freedom. I know, we'll get rid of this to make it moot!". Makes you look like a very old and bad cartoon villain that way.
Though, you can bet your ass that ammo prices will be through the roof after this with all of the panic buyers and scalpers.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

What gun laws are in existence today, both at the local and federal level?

What laws are in place that restrict the purchase of ammunition and ammunition supplies? Why do or why don't these laws exist?

I often see the argument from gun advocates that the problem with gun violence isn't a lack of gun regulation, but rather insufficient mental health coverage. What research can one point to that makes this correlation and causation? (For that matter, I've also heard from gun regulation advocates that the mentally ill are less likely to be the perpetrators of gun violence and are in fact more often the victims of gun violence. What research suggests this?)

And, of course, there's the 2nd Amendment. I understand what it means as interpreted by modern gun rights advocates, but I've begun to see the suggestion that such an interpretation is a flawed one based on historical context. What contexts should be considered that lead to a supposedly less flawed understanding of the 2nd Amendment?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah heard about this recently as well, shame. That Mintz guy though, he's a damn stellar person for what he did, good on him his donations are going so swimmingly. I've always had a question, why not instead of restricting the guns, restrict the ammunition? Guns are freaking useless without it, tell folks they can have all the massive guns they want but they can't be allowed to buy the ammo for'em and limit all others to extremely limited quantities over the course of years. Ban the sales of any kits that allow someone to make their own ammunition from spent casings and the supplies of such. That sort of thing.

There, you can have all the guns you want, but not the ammo to use them.

Much easier to make your own ammo than your own guns.

And, if someone is waving a gun in your face, are you going to know if it's loaded or not?

 

[Leg End]

What gun laws are in existence today, both at the local and federal level?

So many I can't name them all especially since when you get to state level it's a large variable. At the federal level, you can say the most well known one is the National Firearms Act, which was a major turning point in gun rights, and not for the better.

What laws are in place that restrict the purchase of ammunition and ammunition supplies? Why do or why don't these laws exist?

Not as many as you'd imagine, and in, I'd say, most places, you can order ammunition and reloading supplies online and have it shipped straight to your door. The places where you can't are a small handful, mostly being Los Angeles and New York. As for why they do or don't, primarily involves laws put in out of panic after major events.

I often see the argument from gun advocates that the problem with gun violence isn't a lack of gun regulation, but rather insufficient mental health coverage. What research can one point to that makes this correlation and causation? (For that matter, I've also heard from gun regulation advocates that the mentally ill are less likely to be the perpetrators of gun violence and are in fact more often the victims of gun violence. What research suggests this?)

Can't speak too much on this because I can't get the numbers at the current time. From a personal standpoint, it isn't people using firearms for these events, but people doing it in the first place. Why do we have people resorting to executing people en masse for any reason?

And, of course, there's the 2nd Amendment. I understand what it means as interpreted by modern gun rights advocates, but I've begun to see the suggestion that such an interpretation is a flawed one based on historical context. What contexts should be considered that lead to a supposedly less flawed understanding of the 2nd Amendment?

I don't even know what to say. From a personal standpoint again, I don't get how it's a flawed one.
How many ways can you read a sentence, really?

Much easier to make your own ammo than your own guns.

And, if someone is waving a gun in your face, are you going to know if it's loaded or not?

Hell, you can make a shotgun out of about ten bucks of pipes from Home Depot, no tools required. Not even getting into the territory of zip guns.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Much easier to make your own ammo than your own guns.

And, if someone is waving a gun in your face, are you going to know if it's loaded or not?

Hell, you can make a shotgun out of about ten bucks of pipes from Home Depot, no tools required. Not even getting into the territory of zip guns.

True, I should have specified it being easier to make decent ammo than decent guns. You are unlikely to have a mass shooting with a Philippine Guerrilla Gun (despite it being pretty cool), but homemade ammo is likely to work fine.

 

[Leg End]

You are unlikely to have a mass shooting with a Philippine Guerrilla Gun (despite it being pretty cool)

inb4 someone actually does use one and fucks us all.

 

[Josh123914]

You are unlikely to have a mass shooting with a Philippine Guerrilla Gun (despite it being pretty cool)

inb4 someone actually does use one and fucks us all.

I just casually googled what that is.

Jeez....

I'd actually be impressed. It looks like a pellet gun with a hunting rifle taped to the end of it.

 

[Callate]

The thing is, there isn't some clear and impassible line between legal and illegal firearms; most of the weapons that are used in shootings weren't illegally imported from other countries, or manufactured off the books. Some guns used in crimes were stolen; some came from legally licensed dealers who none the less engaged in illegal trade; many others were obtained through "straw purchases", where a legal purchase was made and then the weapon was illegally transferred to someone else.

It is difficult not to reason that there would be fewer guns available to shooters if there weren't so many guns available in general, and so poorly regulated and tracked, in the first place.

 

[Leg End]

You are unlikely to have a mass shooting with a Philippine Guerrilla Gun (despite it being pretty cool)

inb4 someone actually does use one and fucks us all.

I just casually googled what that is.

Jeez....

I'd actually be impressed. It looks like a pellet gun with a hunting rifle taped to the end of it.

We must go cheaper.

 

[Thaluikhain]

you don't need full auto assault rifles

Automatic weapons are very heavily restricted, and are almost never used in crimes. As in, 2 or 3 civilians commit crimes with them a century...barring semi-automatics illegal modified into full automatic ones.

Glad to know about that one then

On the other hand though, automatic weapons aren't really that much better at killing people under many circumstances. An assault rifle has the option for automatic fire (nowdays often in a burst), but also the option for semi-automatic fire which is commonly used. The commonwealth version of the FAL only had semi-automatic fire capability (barring sticking a matchstick into the mechanism in the right place to get full auto fire), and that is still in use today. Even the nations that replaced it did so fairly recently, British troops used it in the Falklands and Australian troops used it in Vietnam.

For that matter, endless murders in the US.

When in reality Toxic masculinity is not being happy with yourself and trying to fit into some other system of masculinity rather than accepting your masculinity on a multitude of terms and traits available.

Well yes, sticking people into arbitrary ideas of masculinity is part of the problem people talking about toxic masculinity are talking about.

Yeh that is the problem

Not sure if you mean that the problem is people being stuck into arbitrary ideas of masculinity or that people are saying that's the problem.

I mean the shooter sees the media being fine villanising them even before the crime and being fine with calling them monsters or suggesting they're some how responsible already for many of the worlds ills. Hence they decide they're already the villain so they don't care about being seen as one by doing such terrible acts.

I don't see this at all. However, if you mean that they feel that society is against them, rather than it actually being so, in the same way that certain types feel not criminalising homosexuality is persecuting straight people, then I'd agree. Especially the ones that right long manifestos about how special they are and how cruel a world that doesn't recognise their awesomeness is.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

Literally no one cares. I think it's disingenuous to say we do. Collectively we have decided that free and easy access to guns is more important than a couple of deaths a year. We can all follow where this story is going to go because we've seen it a million times before like any zombie plot ever.

Shooting
Outrage
"Too early to talk about legislation"
Mental health?
Either ignored or deflected, if deflected usually by Feminists "toxic Masculinity"
Bunch of sad crap about the victims
We find out the dude was super crazy in some way.
Everyone but family, ceases to care because something shiny happened on twitter.

Boom, done we no longer have to ever talk about USA mass shootings. Can we talk about games again?

 

[Josh123914]

You are unlikely to have a mass shooting with a Philippine Guerrilla Gun (despite it being pretty cool)

inb4 someone actually does use one and fucks us all.

I just casually googled what that is.

Jeez....

I'd actually be impressed. It looks like a pellet gun with a hunting rifle taped to the end of it.

We must go cheaper.

I'd buy it.

Looks like an attempt at making a magic wand gone nuclear.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Literally no one cares. I think it's disingenuous to say we do. Collectively we have decided that free and easy access to guns is more important than a couple of deaths a year. We can all follow where this story is going to go because we've seen it a million times before like any zombie plot ever.

Shooting
Outrage
"Too early to talk about legislation"
Mental health?
Either ignored or deflected, if deflected usually by Feminists "toxic Masculinity"
Bunch of sad crap about the victims
We find out the dude was super crazy in some way.
Everyone but family, ceases to care because something shiny happened on twitter.

Boom, done we no longer have to ever talk about USA mass shootings. Can we talk about games again?

I'd tend to agree, with the exceptions that talking about masculinity isn't a deflection when talking about predominantly male crimes (nor "toxic" a bad description when mass shootings are involved) or that "super crazy" always applies beyond "killed a bunch of people".

Looks like an attempt at making a magic wand gone nuclear.

I'm impressed he could hit anything with that. The Guerrilla gun can at least be aimed.

 

[omega 616]

What do you expect to happen, really? You can pick up bananas, a DVD, a t shirt and a gun in the same store.
You have a health care system designed to cripple just about anybody financially.
You prescribe drugs like you need them to breathe.
You put INSANE pressure from people high school and up! Passing tests, preparing for college, affording college, getting through college, paying off college debts for the rest of your life!

You have a serious recipe for disaster, so you get school shooting after school shooting and you all say "it's so sad, condolences to the family" and then forget about it, then it happens again, rinse and repeat ...

Anybody who doesn't want gun laws AND other laws enforced to prevent this crap, I hold equally responsible for letting this happen.

It's not just about full banning of guns, a lot of other social structures have to change to stop these. Apparently the majority of Americans want these school shooting to carry on, otherwise it would have changed after Sandy hook or even better Columbine!

 

[Leg End]

snip

You go from it being a societal issue to a legal issue, then back to society.

The majority of Americans just want to be left alone, hell, shooters often included.