The Other PS3 Hacker Is (Probably) Headed to Jail

[rickynumber24]

Wonderful how Sony doesn't even need to win the court case, they just need to throw so much money at it that a man can't afford to defend himself.

Love how money can buy the law.

This man fixed a broken product, the PS3, which Sony deliberately broke.

It's like if your car manufacturer turned off the stereo in your car because they were worried some people might use it to play pirated music and then sent you to prison for fixing it!

Thats a stupid example. Stereo's can be easily bought at a radioshack or best buy, and replace the old one LEGALLY. Why does everyone resort to using cars as an example for software piracy.

So he bought a replacement and they sued him, the analogy still works. It doesn't matter how he did it, he restored functionality to a broken product.

A closer to home analogy, Microsoft block internet access from every windows PC because of the fact that pirates use the internet. You bought a windows PC with the expectation that you'd be able to access the internet. You circumvent that you get sued.

No in fact, in real life the example does NOT WORK! Nowadays you dont get in trouble for fixing your own engine. You dont get in trouble for changing your own tires, and you wouldnt get in trouble for replacing the radio and speakers with some nice subwoofers. None of that works. Unless there are roadblocks at every street corner where a company man from the manufacturer checks your car to make sure its still all authentic, its an unrealistic scenario.

You are getting close to understanding what we are talking about but not quite there. I pose a question to you then...

What if they could? What if they had software in every car that could tell exactly what piece of hardware is being used at any one time and then that information is being sent to GM/Ford/Toyota and whenever someone changes it (or hacks it) the police come and take your car away or something? Is that what you want corporations to be able to do to us? Cause that's what we are letting Sony do to us.

Ok, I get the point. Im not thoroughly convinced though that property rights of a car and property rights of a console are in anyway the same, because software rights are involved.

Cars run software too, you know. Besides, how is physically modifying your car different from modding the software on your system. The only reason things like this can happen is that we don't have any clearly defined rights of digital property, only IP laws that were never intended to function on their own (property laws take precedence over IP when dealing with physical property), so whoever has the money and power can basically do whatever they feel like.

With this in mind, how about I amend the hypothetical: The car company sends out a software update that stops you from playing any music in your car, despite the hardware still being intact, because some people play illegally downloaded music in their cars. You hack your car and cause the device to work again, so the corporation sends the police to come and lock you up because you can't afford to fight them in court. Everyone is okay with it because piracy is obviously the only thing anyone would ever want the music player in their car for, and anyone who says otherwise is just a pirate putting on a show. That's what's happening here.

Im tired of this argument. It just goes around in a circle every time I talk to someone about it. Physically owning the car means its yours. You gotta do paper work with the DMV and crap but thats it, unlike the software on a PS3 where you dont own the coding. Why is that so hard to grasp? (look, i gotta leave. I couldnt make this any better).

With apologies for what is essentially a split double-post...

I don't think you appreciate how much software goes into your car. As somebody sarcastically commented earlier, the technology to turn your car off if you modify it already exists, and it's called OnStar. A car is just as beholden to its software as a PS3 is beholden to its software. (And, computer security researchers have determined that you can use OnStar to remotely-control a car and completely bypass its usual control system. http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/14/cars-can-be-hacked.html I hear the security for the wireless version isn't much better... I can't find a news story now, but my distributed embedded systems professor told a story about an event where someone managed to shut down an entire city block's worth of onstar cars by accident.)

 

[Twilight_guy]

You go dude. I don't like his principles but I support his spirit! fight for what you believe in!

I don't have anything else to say that wont just start a flame war though.

 

[rsvp42]

The guy didn't hack the network, he hacked his system to restore OtherOS. That's what fail0verflow is known for.

Something that I'm not clear on: what good is putting Linux on a PS3? I can see why it would be an interesting challenge for a single hacker to take on, but aside from the aforementioned software piracy, what's the practical application? What legal uses of a hacked PS3 would there be that isn't already possible on a computer?

 

[ph0b0s123]

If Sony had kept the other OS functionality and allowed running of home-brew stuff, these people would not have an excuse for the hacking and would get no sympathy when chased down by Sony. Unfortunately because of some of Sony's decisions these people get the sympathy they do....

 

[rsvp42]

Sony started the war and got a massive kick in the balls. Now they're provocing the same people again in the same way. If they don't stop...well, you know, as good as me, what will be likely to happen next. It does not matter whether you find it good or not.

This sounds like it's been an ongoing legal battle tied to the original GeoHotz stuff (which simply got more press). This is not some new provocation after the PSN hacks.

 

[rsvp42]

Doing the stuff you can do on a computer, you know, without that huge hunk of metal on a tv?
Jeez, use some imagination man. It's not that hard.

Really? I mean, if that's it, okay, but hardly seems worth all this trouble. Doesn't sound like you can actually do anything new that isn't already possible with existing computers.

 

[Ice Car]

What? What was this about? Oh, that, I completely forgot about it. I can't believe Sony is still going on about that.

 

[DonTsetsi]

Really? I mean, if that's it, okay, but hardly seems worth all this trouble. Doesn't sound like you can actually do anything new that isn't already possible with existing computers.

Of course not but you also don't need to downplay the things you can do just because they're not "new".
Maybe it's not worth the trouble but putting someone into jail over it? Just no.

The idea is you could use a PS3 instead of buying a PC. Because it is cheaper than a comparable PC.
What I don't get is why doesn't the Apple precedent work here? What's so different in jailbreaking a console(from a user point of view, not a technical one, of course)?

 

[FalloutJack]

Is it just me or do some corporate entities never seem to learn their place?

Hackers certainly don't. Remember, the act is still illegal, even if done with good intentions.

 

[Low Key]

The guy didn't hack the network, he hacked his system to restore OtherOS. That's what fail0verflow is known for.

Something that I'm not clear on: what good is putting Linux on a PS3? I can see why it would be an interesting challenge for a single hacker to take on, but aside from the aforementioned software piracy, what's the practical application? What legal uses of a hacked PS3 would there be that isn't already possible on a computer?

I know it sounds really weird and nerdy, but some people have an urge to install Linux on any electronics they can get their hands on. My Linux instructor is like that as well as many of the students in the class. They'll install it whether the device was built for it or not.

Aside from that though, as you might be able to deduce, those people are natural coders and they enjoy making their own homebrew games. fail0verflow was responsible for hacking the Wii too to add a homebrew channel and now it has over one million subscribers, so it's not like it's a small group.

They actually held a conference after they cracked the PS3. It's about 45 minutes, so I don't expect you to watch the whole thing, but if you take a glance, you'll see their intentions are noble. They certainly aren't trying to hide anything. If Sony didn't give them a reason to crack it, there would be none of the piracy concerns of today.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

Yeah, this is probably going to make Sony a target for hackers again. This guy hacked the system not the network, Sony should be focusing elsewhere.

 

[mike1921]

Is it just me or do some corporate entities never seem to learn their place?

Hackers certainly don't. Remember, the act is still illegal, even if done with good intentions.

Then it's a problem with the government AND corporations being complete shit. No one's PS3s are being "jailbroken" without their consent . Also, if you ask me the government needs to learn it's place, being for the people as opposed to for sucking corporate dick.

Yeah, this is probably going to make Sony a target for hackers again. This guy hacked the system not the network, Sony should be focusing elsewhere.

And personally I'm hoping they get so fucked by real hackers they aren't even able to stay in the industry after the PS4 at most

 

[Alar]

As I'm certain it's already been commented, he spelled 'beliefs' wrong.

Hopefully the experience isn't too rough on him. Cracking a piece of hardware you've purchased and being sent to jail over it seems ridiculous. Oh, but I forgot. We don't -own- our consoles now a days! We're just paying for the right to use them and keep them in our homes.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Even if it was their intent to play pirated games on their hacked consoles, you can't convict them on something they haven't done. It's like if the cops knocked on your door tomorrow and arrested you for potential theft because you're poor and likely to steal.

I support these system hackers.

 

[Maxman3002]

Is it just me or do some corporate entities never seem to learn their place?

Hackers certainly don't. Remember, the act is still illegal, even if done with good intentions.

When was it decided that its illegal to hack a console you own?

Wasnt it decided legal to jailbrake an Iphone, why does the same law not apply here?

Resoring an origional feature to the console is essentially jailbraking it, in fact, for some people its 'fixing' the console (those that used the system for that reason)

Why is there a selection of people that feel a system they buy doesnt belong to them? Everything else you own does..

Where would we be without the modding community for games, without PC's allowing people to make their own software and change their systems, without car manufacturers having to let people modify their cars, without microsoft letting people find new (and better) uses for the kinect?

 

[Atheist.]

I used to like Sony. At this point, I'm about ready to never buy their products again. Same thing I did with Coca-Cola, after being yelled at by one of their reps. Fucking douchebag.

 

[FalloutJack]

Is it just me or do some corporate entities never seem to learn their place?

Hackers certainly don't. Remember, the act is still illegal, even if done with good intentions.

When was it decided that its illegal to hack a console you own?

Wasnt it decided legal to jailbrake an Iphone, why does the same law not apply here?

Resoring an origional feature to the console is essentially jailbraking it, in fact, for some people its 'fixing' the console (those that used the system for that reason)

Why is there a selection of people that feel a system they buy doesnt belong to them? Everything else you own does..

Where would we be without the modding community for games, without PC's allowing people to make their own software and change their systems, without car manufacturers having to let people modify their cars, without microsoft letting people find new (and better) uses for the kinect?

I was speaking of hackers in general. Events of late have left me somewhat unsympathetic.

 

[Ad-Man-Gamer]

It's not just about the piracy. That is just Sony's way to get public backing for this stuff. The truth is that Sony actually lose money per a console soled. What? is probably what you may be asking your self right now. Let me explain. Yes Sony lose money on each console soled, but they get that money back through game sails. The reason Sony removed "Other OS" was because people where just buying the console just to run Other OS. Because these people where not buying games, Sony was losing money.

The piracy excuse is convenient for Sony because saying that they removed the feature because of piracy would of bean more acceptable than "People are buying the ps3 for the other OS only and we where losing money. so we had to remove it." This would of had a bigger backlash because their removing a feature that for some people was the only reason for buying the product in the first place.

As for the people that say that the terms and conditions give them the right to do so. Ok. lets say that you own a Sony Blueray player that can play DVD's as well. Now Sony own the Blueray format so it would be more profitable for you to buy a Blueray. So lets say that Sony decides to remove the dvd feature in an update. You could decline the update, but due to the nature of the Blueray format you will not be able to play newer movies on Blueray. BULLSHIT! Would be your initial reaction. But. Oh. It says in the terms and conditions that they can make any changes as they see fit. So... Tough. You accepted it so Sony is in the right.

 

[mike1921]

It's not just about the piracy. That is just Sony's way to get public backing for this stuff. The truth is that Sony actually lose money per a console soled. What? is probably what you may be asking your self right now. Let me explain. Yes Sony lose money on each console soled, but they get that money back through game sails. The reason Sony removed "Other OS" was because people where just buying the console just to run Other OS. Because these people where not buying games, Sony was losing money.

I'm pretty sure most people at the escapist are well aware that Sony loses money on PS3 sales.

Oh. It says in the terms and conditions that they can make any changes as they see fit. So... Tough. You accepted it so Sony is in the right.

I'm fine with them removing functionality, but them taking actions to people who decide to take it back by altering their machines is a scumbag move that along with getting hacked so easily makes me hope that they never even come out with a PS4.

 

[JUGGERNAUTBITCH]

lol can't you guys see its a lie? he just wana make sum money off donations. that guys is brilliant.