The Perfect Apolitical/Politics Free Video.

BrawlMan

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Well done on proving Houseman right by ignoring one of his latest posts lol
Good for yooooooouuuuuuu.

I've been paying attention most of his posts. And for the record @Houseman, I never called you bigot, but you seem to be really vocal when a woman kicks ass or over powers a man when it is not in a fantasy game or grounded in realism.
 

Houseman

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but you seem to be really vocal when a woman kicks ass or over powers a man when it is not in a fantasy game or grounded in realism.
I would explain why, but you've made it clear that you think you already understand the reason perfectly, and that you aren't interested in any other viewpoint.
 
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BrawlMan

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Not enough to be put in a lot of articles, but I heard it happened. If you do not believe me, I do not care.If I am wrong, fine, whatever. The Internet has a bunch people that forget the shit they complain about over nothing and making new hate figures because they got nothing better to do. Like I said before, it was nowhere near the scale of say TLOU2 or the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. Atomic Blonde is a good movie, but could have been better without that stupid, convoluted plot twist.

You're still doing it.
Anytime you begin a sentence with "Says the one", you're just doing a whataboutism in hopes that it'll distract from the criticism against you.

If you want to properly address criticism, try starting your sentence with "You're wrong, because..." or "That's not true, because..."
If the boot fits sugar cube. Like I said before, you're boring and have nothing to stand on. All you ever do is make pathetic excuses and extend the goal post.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Not enough to be put in a lot of articles, but I heard it happened. If you do not belive me, I do not care. The Internet has people that forget the shit complain about over nothing and making new hate figures because they got nothing better to do. Like I said before, it was nowhere near the scale of say TLOU2 or the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.
I don't believe you because stuff gets spun or made up a lot of the time and there seems to be a lot of claims of people in the past being mad at things with 0 evidence of it just by people wishing to push certain narratives.

I find it hard to believe that in Alien a series that had not been established at all and people wouldn't know who the role was originally written for that people would be upset over Ripley being a woman.........Well maybe some Mormons or "traditional values" people but not many of them.

Have you noticed something of a pattern?

Alien 1
TLOU 2
Star Wars Episodes 7,8,9

Maybe there's a pattern in what people are far more angry about? Something Houseman has brought up before I believe.
 

BrawlMan

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I don't believe you because stuff gets spun or made up a lot of the time and there seems to be a lot of claims of people in the past being mad at things with 0 evidence of it just by people wishing to push certain narratives.
What part of I don't care did you not hear? Your choice; not losing sleep over that one.

Have you noticed something of a pattern?

Alien 1
TLOU 2
Star Wars Episodes 7,8,9

Maybe there's a pattern in what people are far more angry about?
Other than a lot of people being far up their own asses. I don't know. I have not seen anyone mad over the original Alien. I did not hear much from the loud sexists on that one. Even if they did, sucks to be them. The only pattern I am seeing here is insecure people with too much time on their hands and the whole with me or against me attitude. I love Alien, hate TLOU2, SW7 I like, love SW8, and meh on SW9. Those are my feelings on those particular media.
 
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Silvanus

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That's kind of like accusing someone of being a member of the KKK as he hangs out with his black friend. Someone can't possibly be racist all the time, can they? It's okay for them to have one or two black friends, right?

Well, no. That doesn't make any sense. Likewise, your argument does not make sense. If people are such misogynists as you suggest, we would be able to mathematically approximate the outrage based on how many women/gay characters a game has, but we can't do that, which means that your formula is wrong.
Jesus H. Christ. It's almost as if violently extreme racism might not exhibit the same behavioural traits as opinions on video games, and that to draw an analogy between the two of them is sophistic drivel.

No, we shouldn't be able to "mathematically approximate the outrage", because that's risible nonsense. And, funnily enough, the entire fields of psychology/psychiatry/sociology/behavioural science have managed to exist and function without needing to prove 100% adherence in their subjects, and without needing exact mathematics.

Ugh, girls can't just dress however they want, it always have to be "in service" to some male. What a misogynistic view. They're not putting on that skirt for YOU!
Do you believe that those groupings of pixels made the choice of what to wear? Or do you believe they were designed by developers, with an eye to how they come across to viewers/ players?

EDIT: Out of interest, how do you feel about the example I brought up earlier, the protagonist in Mobius Final Fantasy? A male protag who was originally given a skimpy, revealing outfit, until a vocal backlash from the audience drove the studio to give him more "modest" clothes. Does he not get to dress "however he wants"?

Look at that, she's flying around, tossing a guy through the air with one arm. None of that follows the physical rules of our world. Things are different out there. She probably only lost that fight because the person she had to protect that girl (if I'm wrong, this was a long time ago)

So no, probably not. In the world of Final Fantasy, how strong you are isn't decided by your muscles.
So... she lost?

It's not that it's "unrealistic". It's that it breaks the established rules of their universe.
Again, nobody complains about how Xiaoyu can beat up Kuma, a LITERAL BEAR, in Tekken. Why? Because that's okay according to the rules of THEIR universe.

It's about rules, and breaking them, presumably for political reasons.
Tekken is a fighting game. Women have to be able to sometimes win fights in order for the game to function at all.

A professionally trained mercenary defeating two visibly-exhausted amateur treasure hunters doesn't break the "rules" of the Uncharted universe, either. Hell, women that strong exist in our world as well, so it doesn't even break the rules of our universe.

But no, these decisions must have been made for "political reasons".

aaand that's where you accuse (or imply) bigotry.
If you think that repeatedly complaining about the fact that she's a woman and he's a man is "bigotry", that's on you. Your words, not mine. I happen to not believe that.
 
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Houseman

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Jesus H. Christ. It's almost as if violently extreme racism might not exhibit the same behavioural traits as opinions on video games
You're the one implying that those opinions are rooted in bigotry, so yes, the two are comparable in that it doesn't make sense to make concessions.

So I maintain that we should still be able to mathematically approximate the outrage.

Regardless, you seem to think that this "not 100%" is a small negligible number, when you have the ENTIRE FIGHTING GAME FRANCHISE putting men and women, minorities, etc on equal levels with ZERO complaints about it.

You can't just dismiss this entire genre as "well standard amount of error with any sort of statistics, nothing is ever 100%"

The evidence should convince you that your theory is wrong. It's not that gamers are anti-progressive, it's only when certain inconsistent elements are suddenly injected into franchises, do gamers become outraged about it. My theory fits all the evidence. Your theory only fits half of the evidence. Switch theories. Come over to my side.

Do you believe that those groupings of pixels made the choice of what to wear? Or do you believe they were designed by developers, with an eye to how they come across to viewers/ players?
I was joking. I was making fun of the stereotypical "victim blaming" mentality of "it's okay to stare, she wants me to, that's why she's dressed like that".

I believe that the women and men who designed these characters were either told by some executive, who doesn't play videogames, what to do, or they made those characters themselves. With the latter, I do not presume to know their motivations. With the former, their motivations were assuredly either based in profit, ideology, or both.


So... she lost?
Yes, because the antagonist resorted to dirty, underhanded tricks, as is typical. So she won in a moral sense, kind of like Rocky.

But winning or losing isn't the point. It's what Tifa is capable of in the world of Final Fantasy. It's not based on physical rules of muscle mass or bone density or testosterone or estrogen, it's based on magic. If you want to say that she lost that fight because she's a girl, you'd be wrong.

Tekken is a fighting game. Women have to be able to sometimes win fights in order for the game to function at all.
Yes, exactly. There are rules, and the logic must be adhered to in order to maintain the audience's suspension of disbelief, and thus, enjoyment.

A professionally trained mercenary defeating two visibly-exhausted amateur treasure hunters doesn't break the "rules" of the Uncharted universe, either.
Yes they do, because Drake has, and goes on to, beat up hundreds of other professional trained mercenaries. In EVERY GAME he fights and beats professionally trained mercenaries. So what makes Nadine any different from the hundreds of other corpses that Drake left in his wake? The game has no explanation for this, so that's how it breaks the rules of the Uncharted universe.

So yes, that's why her inclusion must have been made for political reasons.

If we had some kind of origin story for Nadine, some kind of training montage where we see her being trained from childhood and groomed to be the leader of Shoreline, eventually fighting off 10 men, that would have been believable. I doubt anybody would have complained.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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What part of I don't care did you not hear? Your choice; not losing sleep over that one.


Other than a lot of people being far up their own asses. I don't know. I have not seen anyone mad over the original Alien. I did not hear much from the loud sexists on that one. Even if they did, sucks to be them. The only pattern I am seeing here is insecure people with too much time on their hands and the whole with me or against me attitude. I love Alien, hate TLOU2, SW7 I like, love SW8, and meh on SW9. Those are my feelings on those particular media.
So you're now helping support my argument........... interesting position to take I somehow doubt it's what you planned to do though lol.

Also you know that whole actually listening to what people are saying and not just throwing out a broad label with emotional weight to try and paint them as something they're not? yeh when are you planning to try and start listening or is it the comprehending part you're struggling with?
 

BrawlMan

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To get thing back in to swing, I have a conclusion.There will be politics in a lot of things, real or imaginary. You have people that will always interpert ideas that were never the intention for better or worst. If those politics or lack of them work or not is always up to those reading, watching, or listenting. Same thing if it is done good or not. It's fine to like or dislike, agree/disagree with themes, messages, politics (or calling them out when using only surface level stuff and not doing much with them), but don't be a douche about it. My problem is that you got people saying "Don't put politics in our games"...in games that have politics. Not just those that lack them. There were plenty of angry white boys that suddenly had a problem with Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus when it called out the racists ideals and politics of Nazi Germany and America.

So you're now helping support my argument........... interesting position to take I somehow doubt it's what you planned to do though lol.
So we agree one small thing. Woo hoo! Extra hoo! I am not getting upset about it, so I don't what you're babbling on about. We agreed on something, It's called moving on and not fretting over it.

so you know that whole actually listening to what people are saying and not just throwing out a broad label with emotional weight to try and paint them as something they're not? yeh when are you planning to try and start listening or is it the comprehending part you're struggling with?
I've been listening just fine, so you can stop with useless grasping for the moral high ground.

P.S - The whole Nadine thing should be argued on another topic thread. I've already seen one thread get derailed, because of dumb shit like that. Not having it happen here. So either talk about it somewhere else, or take a hike. Last and final warning.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Hot damn this thread’s on fire. Just over a day and already at the bottom of page 7. It took the TLoU2 review thread two whole days to get that far for reference.
 

BrawlMan

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Hot damn this thread’s on fire. Just over a half a day and already at the bottom of page 7. It took the TLoU2 review thread two whole days to get that far for reference.
Just goes to show you some people are that hot and bothered about politics in the games they play (and like), but don't want to be discussed or seen. Or on their pathetic terms as if they have the word on what should or should not be allowed in games or not.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Do you believe that those groupings of pixels made the choice of what to wear? Or do you believe they were designed by developers, with an eye to how they come across to viewers/ players?

EDIT: Out of interest, how do you feel about the example I brought up earlier, the protagonist in Mobius Final Fantasy? A male protag who was originally given a skimpy, revealing outfit, until a vocal backlash from the audience drove the studio to give him more "modest" clothes. Does he not get to dress "however he wants"?
So this is about speaking on behalf of the character? Wouldn't that normally fall to their creator to do?

Like people upset about women in games wearing something real life women will also willingly wear?

Still weird to me it tends to be a lot of men, the kind of men who claim media influences real life who get upset at women in certain outfits. By that logic wouldn't it mean they want to influence women away from wearing them in real life by targeting media where they won't be called out for slut shaming?

As for Mobius (and most other games people get mad over) just make the outfit an option, unless you've drastically changed the character model I see no issue in making the stuff an option.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Yes they do, because Drake has, and goes on to, beat up hundreds of other professional trained mercenaries. In EVERY GAME he fights and beats professionally trained mercenaries. So what makes Nadine any different from the hundreds of other corpses that Drake left in his wake? The game has no explanation for this, so that's how it breaks the rules of the Uncharted universe.

So yes, that's why her inclusion must have been made for political reasons.

If we had some kind of origin story for Nadine, some kind of training montage where we see her being trained from childhood and groomed to be the leader of Shoreline, eventually fighting off 10 men, that would have been believable. I doubt anybody would have complained.
Not to mention she isn't shown as that strong in Lost Legacy.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Just goes to show you some people are that hot and bothered about politics in the games they play (and like), but don't want to be discussed or seen. Or on their pathetic terms as if they have the word on what should or should not be allowed in games or not.
Have you addressed any actual points at all?

Hell here's one.

If you want politics discussed why are you having to resort to ad hominem in this thread when people discuss politics in a way you dislike? Seems like you only want politics to be discussed in a way you approve.

Hell as you want more overt politics in games I can only assume you'd want ZOG's Nightmare released on Steam right?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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To get thing back in to swing, I have a conclusion.There will be politics in a lot of things, real or imaginary. You have people that will always interpert ideas that were never the intention for better or worst. If those politics or lack of them work or not is always up to those reading, watching, or listenting. Same thing if it is done good or not. It's fine to like or dislike, agree/disagree with themes, messages, politics (or calling them out when using only surface level stuff and not doing much with them), but don't be a douche about it. My problem is that you got people saying "Don't put politics in our games"...in games that have politics. Not just those that lack them. There were plenty of angry white boys that suddenly had a problem with Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus when it called out the racists ideals and politics of Nazi Germany and America.
Did you actually listen to much of what was said in this thread?

People have been objecting to the more partisan approach to gaming (and other media) which is often surface level and just taking shots often at strawmen.

It goes both ways too.

E.G.


People were annoyed at Wolfenstein II : The New Colossus because they decided to take the line "So much for the tolerant left" a mocking line that had been going round social media in response to incidents like the Bikelock bandit and other such incidents and chose to have an actual Nazi saying it.

That would be like having Thanos repeating Bidens speech about winning and coming together after wiping out half the universe............it was a dumb political shot going "Anyone who objects to the violence going on is now a Nazi" in essence. Now I don't know if you know this but people tend not to like being called Nazis.

People (at least none that I saw) had any objection to the game calling out the actual Nazis racist ideals and politics I think the only stuff I saw was some people mad that the game showed life under the Nazis continuing and things like the Cafe owner serving the Nazis rather than refusing to serve them and getting shot.




So we agree one small thing. Woo hoo! Extra hoo! I am not getting upset about it, so I don't what you're babbling on about. We agreed on something, It's called moving on and not fretting over it.
Just checking because given how you've been going on I thought I should make sure in case you wanted to change your position.


I've been listening just fine, so you can stop with useless grasping for the moral high ground.
I really don't think you have been.


P.S - The whole Nadine thing should be argued on another topic thread. I've already seen one thread get derailed, because of dumb shit like that. Not having it happen here. So either talk about it somewhere else, or take a hike. Last and final warning.
THEN WHY DID YOU BRING IT UP HERE?

Oh right whataboutism ammo to throw at Houseman lol.