The Pokemon design Guide, Nintendo you're doing it wrong.
- Thread starter Brotherofwill
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Brilliant comment. I read it and agree with your insights. The musical parrot is indeed really strange, didn't even know that one.AdamRBi said:
Just a few points here, because I haven't made myself clear enough:
As for the colours of the new starters: I like them. They are well chosen. Yellow/ Green is probably my favourite colour combination and using analogues colours can also be used to good effect. I liked the colours chosen for the new starters, but didn't really like how they were applied on the skins. The green and yellow look a little too striking and dissimilar for me (I'd have prefered a different saturation, more of a toned down version) and the orange black pattern on the pig also doesn't sit too well, despite the colours being okay. The white/ ligh blue blue of the water starter also are well chosen and show promise for it developing into water/ice or something new altogether, but again I think it odd that the head and body are so clearly separated by them.
As for the unified design of regions of Pokemon: Ofcourse they shouldn't all look alike. Nature's diversity is striking and it's good to have lots of visual ideas in a game like pokemon. What annoys me however is when body types and other anatomy is strangely dissimilar. If you look at the new starters (again, I know, for lack of a better example) the leg shapes and arm shapes are so vastly different, they almost look like a different cartoonist drew them. They don't seem to have the same logics of anatomy applied to them, one having stumpy legs, the other having a thin attached arm. In the original series there was a lot of diversity, but they did surprisingly well tying ideas together with similar eye shapes, leg shapes and an overal symbiosis of design. I loved that. It made you feel like you stumbled in this new world where these new creatures lived with their own logic applied to them. I don't get that feeling from the new starters.
Thanks for the comment.
Punctuation issues and such aside, this was a pretty good counter-argument. I want a rebuttal from OP.Rabid Meese said:
It's kind of early to judge on this stuff, however. We've only seen a few, and you're already making decisions on the whole generation? We don't even have any idea what the starter's evolved forms will be like. Sure, two of 'em look pretty bad, but they might turn into some awesome stuff. Lots of pokemon look terrible on their first stage.
Oh, and the argument that Fire+Pig is a bad mix is made invalid by the fact that a fully evolved flaming boar would be awesome
I don't blame you. It's always the same. They whine about..you know what...nevermindoppp7 said:
Internet Kraken said:Right, because the original 151 all looked completley logical and practical.snowplow said:
Oh wait, no they didn't.
Here's the thing; Pokemon has always had poorly designed Pokemon. There have always been ones that clearly had little thought put into them. There were always ones that looked pretty weird. There were always ones that were not practical. There were always ones that did not look realistic in any way. The idea that all of the new Pokemon designs suck is absurd, since most of the prbolems with them have always been present throughout the series.
Personally, I only think the Pokemon design had degraded for the starters, legendaries, and new evolutions. This is because I feel like to much detail is put into these Pokemon in an attempt to make them look good, but it just ends up making them to complex. Starts are always popular, so they focus a lot of attention onto them. The legendaries are supposed to be impressive, so they al2ways glue on extra bits thinking that works. The new evolutions to old Pokemon can;t really go anywhere aside from adding extra bits to them. However the other Pokemon, the ones that don't receive as much attention, look fine to me. If someone really thinks that Bidoof is worse than Ratatata, they need to rethink what they are saying.
The difference is that all the new Pokemon just look like Lucario and such (see new Legandaries as well as many 4th Gens), and all the evolutions added in DP for the original 151 were just the original pokemon made ugly while having odd, and many, appendages attached.
As far as I'm aware the original 151 were all designed by the same bloke, who has nothing to do with the designing anymore - whoever does now should be fired.
Wait, what?Kurtle said:
Yeah, I don't see how all of those look similar. I just don't get what your complaint is. If all the new Pokemon looked like Lucario I would have to hate them since I hate Lucario for what I'm going to call "Pokemon popularity" syndrome, in which a Pokemon is designed to look good but in the end all the detailed added to it makes it just look bad. Only a handful of the new generation Pokemon suffer from this though. Plenty of other Pokemon have simplistic designs that work very well. Of all the complaints I've heard, this one just doesn't seem to make sense.
While I only half-agree with the thesis of OP and everyone else, I'd like to muddy the waters further by bringing up a problem I had that started with the pokemon in the 4th generation. It seems like a number of evolutions weren't redesigned to be "bigger and better," just "bigger," or more accurately, fatter. I put forth just a few examples that stand out to me.
Lickilicky, the evolution of 1st gen Lickitung. You'll notice that it's incredibly fat with a head a fraction the size of its torso. Attached to this huge body are arms that couldn't come close to touching, given their size relative to the torso, and underneath are a couple stumpy legs that, ridiculous musculature and bone strength notwithstanding, couldn't hope to hold up the rest of the body and tongue. Also, if you compare the D&P sprites of Lickitung and Lickilicky, it seems to suggest that the evolution's tongue is smaller.
Honchkrow, the evolution of 2nd gen Murkrow. Once again, tiny head, body the size of Minnesota. And, once again, the limbs present a problem; the sprites suggest that the wings are severely undersized for a bird that large. I'm no physics expert, but unless Honchkrow uses dark-type powers to help it fly, those wings wouldn't even get it off the ground, much less in stable flight. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that it seems like at least 75% of its body are in FRONT of its feet. Flying is right out, but it looks like simply standing upright would be nigh-impossible.
Purugly, the evolution of 4th gen Glameow. Both look silly, but Purugly, I think, is just outright stupid. One of the traits most commonly associated with felines, possibly THE trait, is how agile it is. Purugly, in game, is a relatively quick pokemon, in spite of the fact that it looks like a big lump. The legs are short and fat, good for power, not speed. The head looks a little off, but at least it's not way out of whack with the rest of the body. I suppose I don't have too much to say about it, I just can't get over the fact that the only appreciable difference, visually, between Purugly and the first stage form, Glameow, is that it is REALLY GODDAM FAT.
As for the 5th gen starters, I'll admit they all look weird, to the point of looking clownishly silly. However, the same could be said for almost all the starters, yet more or less all of them end up looking fairly intimidating. As such, I think it's best to withhold judgement until B&W comes out. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I can't pass judgement on the 5th gen legendaries.
Reshiram, the white legendary, is a giant chicken with wings that end in fingers - take a close look at the claws - with a distinctly jackal-like head, and a tail that just boggles the mind. Oh, and the weird crotch-feathers.... do I need to say anymore? At the very least, the head is more or less in proportion, as are the wings/arms.
On the other hand, we have Zekrom, the black legendary. I think its tail is also thoroughly ridiculous, but the rest of it looks impressive, if a little over the top.
You know, I think I know what my problem with the newer legendaries is: They all look intimidating, but that's just because of how they look. If we remember back to the very first generation, we had the three legendary birds, each of which looked relatively simple, but you could tell they were not to be trifled with. Then of course, there was Mewtwo. A design as simple as they come, yet the biggest badass in RBY. He didn't need billowing mists, silly tails, none of that. And yet, catching Mewtwo was, and still is, one of the biggest challenges in the entire Pokemon series.
Lickilicky, the evolution of 1st gen Lickitung. You'll notice that it's incredibly fat with a head a fraction the size of its torso. Attached to this huge body are arms that couldn't come close to touching, given their size relative to the torso, and underneath are a couple stumpy legs that, ridiculous musculature and bone strength notwithstanding, couldn't hope to hold up the rest of the body and tongue. Also, if you compare the D&P sprites of Lickitung and Lickilicky, it seems to suggest that the evolution's tongue is smaller.
Honchkrow, the evolution of 2nd gen Murkrow. Once again, tiny head, body the size of Minnesota. And, once again, the limbs present a problem; the sprites suggest that the wings are severely undersized for a bird that large. I'm no physics expert, but unless Honchkrow uses dark-type powers to help it fly, those wings wouldn't even get it off the ground, much less in stable flight. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that it seems like at least 75% of its body are in FRONT of its feet. Flying is right out, but it looks like simply standing upright would be nigh-impossible.
Purugly, the evolution of 4th gen Glameow. Both look silly, but Purugly, I think, is just outright stupid. One of the traits most commonly associated with felines, possibly THE trait, is how agile it is. Purugly, in game, is a relatively quick pokemon, in spite of the fact that it looks like a big lump. The legs are short and fat, good for power, not speed. The head looks a little off, but at least it's not way out of whack with the rest of the body. I suppose I don't have too much to say about it, I just can't get over the fact that the only appreciable difference, visually, between Purugly and the first stage form, Glameow, is that it is REALLY GODDAM FAT.
As for the 5th gen starters, I'll admit they all look weird, to the point of looking clownishly silly. However, the same could be said for almost all the starters, yet more or less all of them end up looking fairly intimidating. As such, I think it's best to withhold judgement until B&W comes out. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I can't pass judgement on the 5th gen legendaries.
Reshiram, the white legendary, is a giant chicken with wings that end in fingers - take a close look at the claws - with a distinctly jackal-like head, and a tail that just boggles the mind. Oh, and the weird crotch-feathers.... do I need to say anymore? At the very least, the head is more or less in proportion, as are the wings/arms.
On the other hand, we have Zekrom, the black legendary. I think its tail is also thoroughly ridiculous, but the rest of it looks impressive, if a little over the top.
You know, I think I know what my problem with the newer legendaries is: They all look intimidating, but that's just because of how they look. If we remember back to the very first generation, we had the three legendary birds, each of which looked relatively simple, but you could tell they were not to be trifled with. Then of course, there was Mewtwo. A design as simple as they come, yet the biggest badass in RBY. He didn't need billowing mists, silly tails, none of that. And yet, catching Mewtwo was, and still is, one of the biggest challenges in the entire Pokemon series.
Amnestic said:
They're enough of a mole to make the connection. If they were any more of a mole, they'd look like this:Brotherofwill said:Seriously? You meet Digletts in caves, which are an allusion to mole holes, and they live underground (like moles) and they have earth-based attacks and things like Scratch, suggesting they have mole claws.
Yeah, right how can you not see the way they are alike? Look:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FL9EaqicjX8/TAG-9jhOj6I/AAAAAAAAAMs/Wtig9zLOhkE/Diglett.jpg
Maybe with some whiskers...
Yeah, I can definitely get behind this. The thing is, those things are the most notable creatures in each new generation, so people tend to extrapolate that to mean that all the designs as a whole are suffering. Which they aren't, really, except for, as you said, the starters, the new evolutions, and the legendaries (Dear GOD, the legendaries. I would go into a rant, but basically it boils down to everything that was wrong with War's design in Darksiders is wrong with these new legendaries). Also, I strongly agree that what we (or at least I) want is more worlds to explore, more things to do, rather than more Pokemon to find in increasingly obscure and unintuitive ways.Internet Kraken said:
Everyone wishes to hold on to their childhood. But things change regardless. HeartGold and SoulSilver were changed for the better, in my opinion. The additions solidified an already amazing game. The new starters and other Pokémon may be a tad strange, but they word. Hell, stuff doesn't always match with what it should.Artemus_Cain said:
OP, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I feel like you're being overly critical of something which does not deserve so much analysis. So far, the legendaries (at least Zekram) and Zoroark look fairly cool. I'm hoping the starters will grow to be what they represent and do so without looking completely outrageous. I'm not and have never been disappointed in anything but the story. That is where major change needs to take place.
Nice comment. Never really thought about overly fat pokemon, but yeah they certainly have a lot just for the sake of looking fat.Mafoobula said:
Exactly my thoughts on Zekrom. He looks well designed but the tail is just ridiculous. Why do they always have to add all these strange accesories to the legendaries?
What gripes me most about them however is the idea that they are supposed to be gods and mythical monsters. I don't know, it's a little hard to swallow and doesn't sit right with me to be a 14 boy with 3-4 mythical gods in his pocket in the game. I can't get over that.
I know what you mean. It's always better to be intimidating through character than through looks. Very important point for designing villians in Hollywood movies. It's like the killer in "No Country For Old Men". He looked strange but what really set him apart was his character, these types you'll just never forget. The new legendaries often suffer in personality because there's so many of them, although they might be well characterised in the new shows and movies or such but I wouldn't know.
Did you just draw that? Awesome! Haha.AdamRBi said:
Internet Kraken said:Wait, what?
Yeah, I don't see how all of those look similar. I just don't get what your complaint is. If all the new Pokemon looked like Lucario I would have to hate them since I hate Lucario for what I'm going to call "Pokemon popularity" syndrome, in which a Pokemon is designed to look good but in the end all the detailed added to it makes it just look bad. Only a handful of the new generation Pokemon suffer from this though. Plenty of other Pokemon have simplistic designs that work very well. Of all the complaints I've heard, this one just doesn't seem to make sense.
Why do interneters have to be so pedantic?
Okay, I exaggerated the Lucarioesqueness of the pokemon, that doesn't mean that there's not a higher percentage of badly designed pokemon in the newer games. The appendaged evolutions, most of the legendaries, Lucario arms, and Gen III seemed to just add pokemon that were VERY similar to before, but a bit different (Moths, Snakes etc).
Of course, there are decent new ones, like Camerupt and that sand Hippo etc etc etc etc, but there's still a high percentage of crap designs - it's especially annoying that they ruined some of the originals with shite looking evolutions.
Also:
They all look pretty "logical" and practical to me - they're all still simple, and all "original" in design.Internet Kraken said:Right, because the original 151 all looked completley logical and practical.
Oh wait, no they didn't.
And what's with your "blackface" avatar?
Good Points, they seem to be focusing more on how the Pokemon look then how they'd act and interact with nature. Course if all science worked like it did here then Skarmory would have to be super powerful to lift itself. That and Wailord would only be playable in water. Though his size makes sense.Mafoobula said:
Like I said though, good points all around.
P.S. You got the Legendaries backwards. Zekrom, the Dark one, is the Legendary for Pokemon White and Reshiram is in Black Version. It makes sense when you see the box art. http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Black_and_White_legendaries_revealed&action=purge
If a pokemon like Mr. Mime or Jynx was introduced in 4th or 5th gen, you'd complain about them just as much.
And what does Mr. Mime relate to in real life, anyway? A pedophile?
And what does Mr. Mime relate to in real life, anyway? A pedophile?