I guess there a few things we could learn from the Greco-Roman cultures, but for the most part, I don't think that would be a pleasant society to live amongst. There is not much that I value in the Greco-Roman culture as being superior to our current standards; we kill a lot more people you know, and sure we are squeamish about it, but we love doing it to an almost maniacal degree.KingPiccolOwned said:
The Problem With Twilight
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
My this is one the best pieces of anti-twilight media out there.Also I'm totally with you on that Twilight is totally stupid.
Cut: different opinions and views
What I meant was that I belive women are able to seperate fiction and fantasy ideals from real life just as we men do. I have never met a woman that tries to adapt to, or even agree with the female ideals that these movies portraits.
It is quite opposite actually. Having serious characters on screen doing and saying silly things that no one would ever do in real life, empowers the audience. It makes them think "Hah! That is not what I would have done. That is not what I would have said". This way they can reenact the scenes in their head with their smarter selfs written in.
Cut: some more different opinions, views and interesting links
Ouch.Epoetker said:
What I meant was that I belive women are able to seperate fiction and fantasy ideals from real life just as we men do. I have never met a woman that tries to adapt to, or even agree with the female ideals that these movies portraits.
It is quite opposite actually. Having serious characters on screen doing and saying silly things that no one would ever do in real life, empowers the audience. It makes them think "Hah! That is not what I would have done. That is not what I would have said". This way they can reenact the scenes in their head with their smarter selfs written in.
Cut: some more different opinions, views and interesting links
When you are right, you are right. There is no excuse. It's not normally this bad though
I feel this is actually a chicken and the egg problem.
Truly, Twilight is complete garbage, but it wouldn't sell if there weren't a market for it. Women don't always admit it, but it's very common for them to be attracted to men who control and dominate them. Stephanie Myer only tapped an audience which was already there, waiting for something like this.
Truly, Twilight is complete garbage, but it wouldn't sell if there weren't a market for it. Women don't always admit it, but it's very common for them to be attracted to men who control and dominate them. Stephanie Myer only tapped an audience which was already there, waiting for something like this.
.KingPiccolOwned said:
lol i agree 100% All the twatlight fangirls should be sat down in front of a screen and be forced to watch all the episodes + OVA's of Hellsing...I garuntee you that after they see REAL vampires in action, they would realize that twilight is shit
edit: Lol, I just got really pissed when I realized that the bastard who made the vid "shooped" Integra at the end but w/e XD
I have to admit, at the right age, I'd totally have gone for the reverse. However, boys wanting such a thing as GIRLS fighting over them has been branded bad and "immature" and feircely pounded into our heads through shrill protest and pop-culture sitcoms where the guy is a perma-adolecent dumbfuck who got lucky enough to find a hot, but nagging wife who is intillectually superior to him in every way and is allowed to hit him occasionally.MovieBob said:
When there's sexy vampire women or sexualized vampires such as in these books or movies, they use their sex-appeal to lure and kill men. So again, the reverse would be unacceptable; a hunky teenage vampire luring whiney emo-girls to their death? How anti-woman! So girls get the supernatural creatures fighting for their attention and guys get killed for taking interest in a hot teen vamp.
double-standards... what can ya do?
MovieBob: Thanks for giving out the 411 on the Twilight series. Now I can discuss it round the campfire without having to sift through all the dross that is the bulk of the series.
This series does tend to highlight what is wrong with people. Is it all that?...maybe not. But it is still a terribly written series.
Praise The Name of Movie Bob. Seriously this series both book and movie are just irritating. The only reason this retarded movie is getting any buzz is because it parents actually let there kids watch this crap is because it rants on about abstinence. yeah its a nice message wanna hear the bad part half my who read the god awful series wanted a sex scene and instead they started reading vampire smutt books making them the opposite. This this is only popular out of nostalgia and plain human stupidity and to hear someone who has the same views is just comforting.
I didn't say it had anything to do with social values. You just said that there wasn't progress in one direction or the other in terms of sexual promiscuity, then cited the Romans as a sexually promiscuous society. This seemed to imply to me that Romans were "back", and most of what has come since has been "forward".Fearzone said:
It may have been "forward" in time, but generally speaking, I'd say that everything for about 1600 years after the fall of Rome can safely be considered "back" from Rome in every conceivable fashion other than chronologically.
You are free to contest this, and you're correct that attitudes cycle in the short term, but the long-term trend is that technological advancement and general living standards are correlated positively with loosening attitudes about sex and greater independence for women.
So I call bs on your suggestion that there is no "forwards" or "backwards" regarding sexual attitudes and women's rights.
I don't think I agree with you people. I do agree, that Bella is annoyingly passive and dependent during the whole series and that this might send the wrong kind of message ("It's okay to just sit around and let the man protect you.") Even the female vampires are protected by their men. What for?!?
However, I really think this whole "Virginity is the most important aspect of you" is a bit far fetched. In the book it was because Edward didn't want Bella to loose her soul and go to hell after she dies. Where do you get the idea that humanity correlates to virginity?
The "Sex only after marriage" message was more obvious, but Edward is old fashioned and some people might find that romantic. But honestly, I think churches, parents and teachers do much more harm in indoctrinating young girls with that message than Twilight ever could. If this was never an issue for you, it won't be after reading Twilight.
Also, really young girls (11-14) might find the idea of a boy actually wanting to have sex with them a bit scary. They like save relationships. ((This is also one of the reasons why girls like Yaoi)) So it makes sense considering the target audience for once. If you did any research you'll find that, lusting after hot but save boys is an important step in sexual development of girls. How can that be anti-female? When girls get older they grow out of it and search for real relationships. Whats the harm? Reading all this one could get the idea that in fact you don't like the idea of a female sex drive and hate Twilight for marketing this to girls. Who is the backwards thinker in all of this?
You guys keep forgetting that this is porn for girls. They don't put much more thought in it than "Hey Edward is really hot". Yes, young girls are manipulable. But the message is "Vampires are hot, buy our products" and not "Virginity is important". This movie and the books are for young girls. You are not the target audience. So stop complaining and conspiring. You watch your kind of porn and let them watch their kind of porn. You put way to much effort into it.
All in all, I agree that Twilight might send the message "It is okay to depend on your man", but it really doesn't say "Sex is evil for women".
- Crazy_Birds girlfriend
However, I really think this whole "Virginity is the most important aspect of you" is a bit far fetched. In the book it was because Edward didn't want Bella to loose her soul and go to hell after she dies. Where do you get the idea that humanity correlates to virginity?
The "Sex only after marriage" message was more obvious, but Edward is old fashioned and some people might find that romantic. But honestly, I think churches, parents and teachers do much more harm in indoctrinating young girls with that message than Twilight ever could. If this was never an issue for you, it won't be after reading Twilight.
Also, really young girls (11-14) might find the idea of a boy actually wanting to have sex with them a bit scary. They like save relationships. ((This is also one of the reasons why girls like Yaoi)) So it makes sense considering the target audience for once. If you did any research you'll find that, lusting after hot but save boys is an important step in sexual development of girls. How can that be anti-female? When girls get older they grow out of it and search for real relationships. Whats the harm? Reading all this one could get the idea that in fact you don't like the idea of a female sex drive and hate Twilight for marketing this to girls. Who is the backwards thinker in all of this?
You guys keep forgetting that this is porn for girls. They don't put much more thought in it than "Hey Edward is really hot". Yes, young girls are manipulable. But the message is "Vampires are hot, buy our products" and not "Virginity is important". This movie and the books are for young girls. You are not the target audience. So stop complaining and conspiring. You watch your kind of porn and let them watch their kind of porn. You put way to much effort into it.
All in all, I agree that Twilight might send the message "It is okay to depend on your man", but it really doesn't say "Sex is evil for women".
- Crazy_Birds girlfriend
When I saw the preview for (what was it..Eclipse?) playing at Blockbuster one night, I very nearly threw up. Here I am, watching a girl so obsessed about her supernatural boyfriend, that she will willingly throw herself off of cliffs and drive into trees just for a chance to see him again. Seeing that preview scared the ever-loving crap out of me; I had no idea that anything like that went on during the booksVivaciousDeimos said:
Ahh, apparently you've never played Horrify the Twilight Noob.My1stLuvJak said:
In the words of my favorite blogger [http://cleolinda.livejournal.com/630150.html] Srsly, the recaps are pure lulz: [http://cleoland.pbworks.com/Twilight#HorrifytheTwilightNoob]
"Okay, so. Previously on As the Vampire Sparkles, emoteen Bella Swan moves to a tiny little depressing rainy town and won't shut up about it. There she meets a mysterious boy who turns out to be a 100+ year-old vampire who literally sparkles "like diamonds" in direct sunlight and reads minds (but not hers), and after three hundred pages of Bella wondering why he's so mean to her and why he's so weird and why he's not being mean to her anymore and what his deal is and if he likes her and if he actually loves her and how much he loves her and how he could possibly love as someone as Mary Sue plain and boring and clumsy as she is and if his vampire family will like her, a plot finally shows up, but it doesn't last very long. And then they go to prom. In the second book, Edward the sparkling vampire leaves Bella for her own good, and she spends most of the book trying to kill herself with motorcycles and cliff-diving. Sort of. And then her best friend falls in love with her and turns out to be a werewolf, but Bella runs away to save Edward from committing suicide by public sparkling in Italy. In the third book, Jacob the best friend/boyfriend wannabe/werewolf turns into a total asshole trying to force himself on Bella, and a vampire with a grudge from the first book is trying to kill her, but more importantly, Bella and Edward argue about whether they should have sex, get married, and/or vampirize Bella, and in what order.
Hand to God, I did not make one word of that up. Twilight means never having to say you're kidding."
And Breaking Dawn is even crazier.
It's always nice to see someone criticize Twilight where it deserves to be criticized. 80% of the hate amounts to "They ruined vampires!!", which just wants to make me smash my head against the desk.
Still, despite what signals it may or may not be sending, I think Twilight is gonna turn out to be a good thing in the long run. If this is what it takes to make the average girl understand what it's like to be obsessed with a piece of fantasy fiction, I'm okay with that.
Still, despite what signals it may or may not be sending, I think Twilight is gonna turn out to be a good thing in the long run. If this is what it takes to make the average girl understand what it's like to be obsessed with a piece of fantasy fiction, I'm okay with that.
I...I guess I just don't understand exactly what's wrong with the "virginity until marriage" message. That mantra doesn't necessarily lead to utter submission to a man. At the very least, it's better than the opposing message, which would encourage lust-filled teenage girls to just act on every impulse they have. Like I said, I'm just not seeing why this message in particular is such a grave problem.
Granted, the stalking bits and the parts where she actually is completely submitting herself to Edward (though I still don't think that arises from the virginity bit) give off a bad vibe, but this article seems more like MovieBob's personal views being declared as objectively correct.
Granted, the stalking bits and the parts where she actually is completely submitting herself to Edward (though I still don't think that arises from the virginity bit) give off a bad vibe, but this article seems more like MovieBob's personal views being declared as objectively correct.
