The Quota
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I don't play DOTA 2, so I didn;t recognize the characters, but after some staring I did get the joke without reading the comments.
A friend of mine told me about the last-hit and denying aspects of DOTA 2. I thought they were stupid. I guess I can see how it would add an extra layer of skill and tactics to the game, it's just not a layer I like. I think there ought to be better things you can do to make the early game interesting than including a mechanic where it's beneficial to kill your own troops.
The DOTA 2 fans can have their fun with the game, but I won't be playing it, even if I wanted to deal with the legendarily abuse of new and inexperienced players. I like some immersion in my games. I can't properly get into a game that keeps reminding you it's a game. It's why I like Supreme Commander way more than Starcraft 2. I'm sure Starcraft 2 has a vastly superior game balance, but SupCom actually looks and feels a bit like two clashing armies.
I'll let the E-sports fans have their fun with their games, and I'll stick to mine.
A friend of mine told me about the last-hit and denying aspects of DOTA 2. I thought they were stupid. I guess I can see how it would add an extra layer of skill and tactics to the game, it's just not a layer I like. I think there ought to be better things you can do to make the early game interesting than including a mechanic where it's beneficial to kill your own troops.
The DOTA 2 fans can have their fun with the game, but I won't be playing it, even if I wanted to deal with the legendarily abuse of new and inexperienced players. I like some immersion in my games. I can't properly get into a game that keeps reminding you it's a game. It's why I like Supreme Commander way more than Starcraft 2. I'm sure Starcraft 2 has a vastly superior game balance, but SupCom actually looks and feels a bit like two clashing armies.
I'll let the E-sports fans have their fun with their games, and I'll stick to mine.
One of the MOBA's, such as League of Legends, or DOTA. Some creeps give gold when killed. The joke's premise is that if that gold giving creep is killed by another creep, that creep gets the gold and is able to spend it on gear (normally something only the player does). The joke was a tiny bit obscure, and almost entirely unfunny.Johnny Novgorod said:
Actually that might be a mechanic that could be utilised in a strategic way. I only can speak for LoL as certain player actions or item choices buff minions. Tieing the stats of minions on how succsessful they are on their own lane is a intersting idea. Maybe it will end just in a "spilt_push_fest".
I think I can understand the perspective that this "last kill mechanic" makes for bad gameplay, or at least is one factor in it. I know a lot of you think this is up to taste, but in this case I'd have to disagree.
See, the thing about these DOTA clones is that they still use Warcraft's strategy game controls. These controls aren't suited for OCD micromanagement where you decide every single action of your units. That's why auto-attack *exists*, because something trivial like deciding which troop to attack first is something the AI should be able to handle on its own. Imagine a game like Rome: Total War where you have to tell each unit which unit precisely to attack.
Now you might argue that DOTA-clones aren't strictly strategy games, and that you control only a single unit, so micromanagement is fine. Now, besides of the fact that these DOTA-clones were written from scratch, and could easily have implemented better suited movement control, let me ask you this: Have you ever watched an LP of a "good" LoL player? Did something seem odd to you? Like, I dunno, them clicking the map 5 times per second to adjust their movement and make them less predictable? Did that seem like "fun gameplay" to you?
Because to me it seemed like some ADHD kid on a sugar rush who is unable to keep their concentration unless they can constantly do something with their hands. And that might very well be what it's designed for. To set people off on some kind of high that will make them "immerse" in the game and allow them to have "fun". Except to any sane person watching this from the outside, it seems less like "immersion" and more like "dude have you been taking your meds?"
So yeah. DOTA clones have great potential. There's lots of high-level decisions to be made, and strategy to be had. Except, with the so called "meta" where everyone basically plays out the same pre-made strategy, and with stupid mechanics like it being an advantage to change course every 0.5 seconds, or it being an advantage to micromanage which creeps you target once every 3 seconds, it feels more like an FPS.
The "last attack gets the gold" mechanic is not such a letdown because it in itself is such a bad thing, but because it's one of the few bad decisions that ruin what could otherwise be a very enjoyable game that actually challenges your strategic mind, rather than your reflexes/blood sugar level.
See, the thing about these DOTA clones is that they still use Warcraft's strategy game controls. These controls aren't suited for OCD micromanagement where you decide every single action of your units. That's why auto-attack *exists*, because something trivial like deciding which troop to attack first is something the AI should be able to handle on its own. Imagine a game like Rome: Total War where you have to tell each unit which unit precisely to attack.
Now you might argue that DOTA-clones aren't strictly strategy games, and that you control only a single unit, so micromanagement is fine. Now, besides of the fact that these DOTA-clones were written from scratch, and could easily have implemented better suited movement control, let me ask you this: Have you ever watched an LP of a "good" LoL player? Did something seem odd to you? Like, I dunno, them clicking the map 5 times per second to adjust their movement and make them less predictable? Did that seem like "fun gameplay" to you?
Because to me it seemed like some ADHD kid on a sugar rush who is unable to keep their concentration unless they can constantly do something with their hands. And that might very well be what it's designed for. To set people off on some kind of high that will make them "immerse" in the game and allow them to have "fun". Except to any sane person watching this from the outside, it seems less like "immersion" and more like "dude have you been taking your meds?"
So yeah. DOTA clones have great potential. There's lots of high-level decisions to be made, and strategy to be had. Except, with the so called "meta" where everyone basically plays out the same pre-made strategy, and with stupid mechanics like it being an advantage to change course every 0.5 seconds, or it being an advantage to micromanage which creeps you target once every 3 seconds, it feels more like an FPS.
The "last attack gets the gold" mechanic is not such a letdown because it in itself is such a bad thing, but because it's one of the few bad decisions that ruin what could otherwise be a very enjoyable game that actually challenges your strategic mind, rather than your reflexes/blood sugar level.
I prefer it to challenge both. Dota is about quick moment to moment decision making just as much as it's about long term planning and strategy. To master the game you need both and especially the ability to function in a team. You need the right strategy and the ability to utilize it to win, this makes the way more interesting.Tarfeather said:
Regarding the click crazyness and semingly erratic movement, thats a sign of how intense the game is and realy enjoy watching it. It shows that players are fighting for every little advantage they can get. Lasthit that creep or denie that one who wich one will give me the greater advantage? Try to bait the enemy into taking a miss step or hold my ground and be safe for now? I can see that going to players mind every second cause thats what I think when I play and I find it highly entertaining to watch.
As for controls, rts style movement fits the game well because it allows for the most precise positioning and is better suited for multitasking. I tryed smite and find it realy lacking in that regard because of the third person perspective and direct movement. Can't quickly check the course of a fight in the jungle while im farming if i don't have full controll over the camera.
To give you an example where all of this comes together. In a video i once watched a drow (the elf archer) player scores a kill in a 2v1 situation, uses the gold he gains to buy an item that allows controlling enemy units, and then kills himself with an enemy unit to prevent the second enemy from getting any gold or experience himself.
Noone I have ever shown the video (all long time dota players) guessed what drow was gonna do, best example of lighting fast thinking in a game I have ever seen. Also the best possible "fuck you!" to the enemy team there is in such a situation.
Everything i love about the game in one moment. Asses the situation(your dead), chose the most beneficial strategy within a split second(make sure these assholes get nothing) and execute it perfectly.
Edit: Video is here for anyone who wants to see(seriously if you play dota watch this).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Vtn7WecvJ-8#t=256s
I think above quotes did not provide satisfactory answer, so I will explain.UltimatheChosen said:
While it looks like that Last hitting(and denying as an extent) is mere test of twitch skills, or just a mechanic there to make a game harder for the sake of being hard. This is not the case.
Last hitting mechanic is there to make the laning phase exciting by giving players a chance of reward, which comes with risk. Let's look, shall we?
1. if you are away certain distance from a minion and you right click it.
2. you get gold.
Which translates in to:
1. You risk yourself by putting yourself in a certain position in a certain time.
2. Rewarded.
Being in a certain position in a certain time makes enemy or yourself predictable, so exciting developments in the lanes are always possibility. And you know what? I am few of those people who genuinely like a laning phase. It is like... 2 people playing DDR facing each other and tying to step on each other's foot whenever they have a chance.
Seriously awesome plays there.DaViller said:
That was a great video.
I slightly dislike last hitting, I'm a LoL player. But I do enjoy DOTA. Just, it's a lot harder in my opinion.
Void noob, uninstall Dota.
You have no business here if you can't do such trivial task as last hitting.
And yes, only those who was born retarded can't last hit, they always whine about it.
Maybe I should elaborate:
DotA has a very high skill entry level threshold for new players. Any newbie (unless person in question is genius) is guaranteed to get yelled on for not knowing the basics, etc.
And because DotA is really complex game - it takes a lot of time just to get the trivial knowledge, timing of last hits, how to pull and such.
Almost all players (I'm speaking now about first DotA) hate newbies, because newbies tend to die a lot, feeding the other team with extra gold and experience, and turning what would otherwise be a close game into a rout, ruining people's fun as much as a troll doing it deliberately.
But Valve being Valve (they need to sell more hats and not make HL3) tried to fix this problem.
Training, bot matches, coach system. This all is really great, only problem is that only very small percentage is using it, if any. This (plus popularity of steam, game being free) resulted in huge stream of unskilled players that tend to ruin every game because of said lack of knowledge. These games result in waste of time. That's why new players always get reported, verbally abused, etc.
That's why lot of people tend to dislike DotA for bad first impression(which is ultimately their own fault but still).
It's not DotA that is bad and needs fixing. It's you.
(otherwise just don't play it, minus one potential feeder is good in sea full of bad players)
You have no business here if you can't do such trivial task as last hitting.
And yes, only those who was born retarded can't last hit, they always whine about it.
Maybe I should elaborate:
DotA has a very high skill entry level threshold for new players. Any newbie (unless person in question is genius) is guaranteed to get yelled on for not knowing the basics, etc.
And because DotA is really complex game - it takes a lot of time just to get the trivial knowledge, timing of last hits, how to pull and such.
Almost all players (I'm speaking now about first DotA) hate newbies, because newbies tend to die a lot, feeding the other team with extra gold and experience, and turning what would otherwise be a close game into a rout, ruining people's fun as much as a troll doing it deliberately.
But Valve being Valve (they need to sell more hats and not make HL3) tried to fix this problem.
Training, bot matches, coach system. This all is really great, only problem is that only very small percentage is using it, if any. This (plus popularity of steam, game being free) resulted in huge stream of unskilled players that tend to ruin every game because of said lack of knowledge. These games result in waste of time. That's why new players always get reported, verbally abused, etc.
That's why lot of people tend to dislike DotA for bad first impression(which is ultimately their own fault but still).
It's not DotA that is bad and needs fixing. It's you.
(otherwise just don't play it, minus one potential feeder is good in sea full of bad players)
For a moment there I thought I'd loaded up "Nerf NOW!"... 
Also, nice touches in the art, aside from the obvious Aghanim's Scepter and the Rapier, I can also see a Medallion of Courage and an Armlet, as well as two pairs of Boots of Travel. And the title itself is a DOTA(2) inside joke.
Also, nice touches in the art, aside from the obvious Aghanim's Scepter and the Rapier, I can also see a Medallion of Courage and an Armlet, as well as two pairs of Boots of Travel. And the title itself is a DOTA(2) inside joke.
I'm pretty sure that in LoL it's completely down to the auto-targeting whether blue minions or purple minions gain the advantage. I could be wrong, and I can't be arsed to check, but I seem to remember someone saying that top and bot lanes tend to come out in favour of the blue minions, but mid lane tends to favour purple.NightHawk21 said:
I'd guess that it takes several hours for the minions to win a game though. I'm speaking about just minions of course, champions naturally change things. Kinda the whole point of a MOBA to be honest.
