Mixing one quart of sewage with three quarts of ambrosia will get you four quarts of sewage.
Dragon Age 2 shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.
Dragon Age 2 shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.
The Skyrim/Dragon Age Baby
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
- Start date
Dude, you make MANY fine points, and I agree with every single damn one. I loved the characters in DA2 but hated the environs, and I LOVE the environs and scope of Skyrim, but for the life of me can't remember ANY of the inhabitants names. A dream pairing of Bioware's writers and The Elder Scrolls history and scope would be truly a thing to see. It might even happen one day, who knows?
I think every game ever should have Isabela in it. As a general rule.
I would argue that Dragon Age 2 has BioWare's best core cast of characters to date, so I would very much like to see Bethesda put the same amount of care and effort into molding theirs. Or alternatively have BioWare experiment with more expansive projects, although that's bound to attract even more of the knee-jerk fanboy rage which DA2 seemed to elicit.
I would argue that Dragon Age 2 has BioWare's best core cast of characters to date, so I would very much like to see Bethesda put the same amount of care and effort into molding theirs. Or alternatively have BioWare experiment with more expansive projects, although that's bound to attract even more of the knee-jerk fanboy rage which DA2 seemed to elicit.
Actually, I'd play Skyrim if I could care about the people. Beautiful cities don't really do much for me. It's a super pretty game, but if I can't care about the people I'm saving or become invested in the story, then I'm not going to really play.
Which is why I was willing to put up with Kirkwall for DA2. Because I adored my friends and would do anything to explore their characters. But Skyrim has so much to do. You can never not find something to do in Skyrim. Neverrrrr.
I'd play the shit out of this hypothetical game. It would never leave my console/computer.
Which is why I was willing to put up with Kirkwall for DA2. Because I adored my friends and would do anything to explore their characters. But Skyrim has so much to do. You can never not find something to do in Skyrim. Neverrrrr.
I'd play the shit out of this hypothetical game. It would never leave my console/computer.
I think it'd be funny if our bulking friend Shale made an appearance in Skyrim, just randomly killing chickens on farms ha ha, I'm sure the Companions of Jorrvaskar would be called in to take care of her. 
Also if this were to happen finally the Jarl of Whiterun's son wouldn't constantly remind me every 2 fucking seconds that I shouldn't be in there. Shut up and go to bed I'm robbing your ass!
Also if this were to happen finally the Jarl of Whiterun's son wouldn't constantly remind me every 2 fucking seconds that I shouldn't be in there. Shut up and go to bed I'm robbing your ass!
I might address specific points of the article later, but for now, I'll just leave an Albert Einstein inspired thought.Susan Arendt said:
You say that you loved the setting and lore of Skyrim, but disliked the wooden characters. Inversely, you loved the characters of Dragon Age, but disliked the environment as being shallow and uninteresting. Thus, to combine the brilliant characters of Dragon Age with the enthralling setting of Skyrim, it would create a perfect game, correct?
Well, possibly. But what would happen if the end result was Skyrim's characters implanted in Dragon Age's setting?
...look, man, unless you made some sort of typo in there, I'm pretty sure that's flawed logic. Otherwise, it's your thinking that if anything has a flaw, that flaw overwrites every positive thing in its favor, no matter how minor the flaw might be.ResonanceSD said:
Aaaaaand now I think I might see why you don't have a great grip on chemistry.ResonanceSD said:
Ah, Planescape: Torment. I still retell the 'Three Wishes' story from time to time.SpaceMedarotterX said:
...wait, what?SpaceMedarotterX said:
Look, man, I'm gonna be honest: the only difference you're portraying there is that Planescape was primitive, gray, and impossible to read without a microscope, while Dragon Age had to be photoshopped into looking bad. I realize that the former couldn't be further from the truth, but do you see my point?SpaceMedarotterX said:There's a difference between DA2 and Planescape Torment can be summed up in an image
WHAT IS THE NATURE OF A MAN?
Could you reiterate a few reasons you've got? If you just copy/paste from previous posts of yours with similar content, I've no problem with that.SpaceMedarotterX said:
Except that the main difference between the two is that Anders actually has something that can be called a curse. Being ageless and virtually indestructible is not offset by looking like you're wearing body glitter. Being possessed by the avatar of Vengeance and living with the knowledge that it was your own hatred that corrupted a spirit of pure Justice? That's a curse.Candidus said:
For some reason, I thought that Fenris wouldn't have gotten nearly the same flak if he'd been built differently. Scraggly-bearded Norse hulk with magical brands? Badass, and actually befitting of a name from Norse mythology. And when someone like that reveals crippling levels of angst, it looks like it means something, and that something had to really screw him up to make him like that. With the current Fenris, you get the feeling that he was just born in the wrong era, ie, one that didn't have LiveJournal.Candidus said:
Erm...did you mean to place the emphasis on 'can' rather than 'I'?Candidus said:
But either way, Merril's entire storyline was part of a series that Tropers would know as "Bad Powers, Good People [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadPowersGoodPeople]." In other words, are certain varieties of powers inherently good or evil? Are necromancers evil simply because they're necromancers, or is it because of how they apply that power? Merril seems to think otherwise, and one of the running debates of the Dragon Age series was over whether or not Blood Magic was inherently an evil thing.
The flip side, of course, is "Good Powers, Bad People [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodPowersBadPeople]," which we don't get to see much of, unfortunately. If you're familiar with the World of Darkness lore, you get Vivesectors, who've essentially taken what's fundamentally a 'healing' form of magic and use it to create unspeakable monstrosities from living creatures, people included.
But, again, back to Merril: she's clearly a good person, and it's not like she's actively channeling demons for her power, but by the quest's end, it became clear that it's human (or elf, dwarf, etc) error that makes certain kinds of magic 'evil.' Blood magic is no more inherently evil than nuclear power, and 'demons' are only viewed as evil because the 'good' ones simply don't have any desire to enter the mortal coil.
...look, man, to be honest, it sounds like you weren't paying much attention. Like, at all. Claiming that you don't remember his name isn't grounds to assert that he's forgettable.Candidus said:
See? You're not even hiding the fact that you're trying to come up with bad things to say about each character. If you only give "a reluctant pass" to someone who you have literally nothing bad to say about, then you're trying too hard to maintain your bias.Candidus said:
On Anders.Char-Nobyl said:
Yes, I know that Anders Cullen really did have a curse whereas Edward Cullen really didn't, but that's irrelevant to the point. Who cares what the specifics of Edward's condition are? The point is that his whole character boils down to "I love you, but I'll hurt you, I can't control etc etc", and Anders is written precisely the same way.
By an enormous Twilight fangirl.
Which you could say is an enormous coincidence.
If you were an enormous dunce.
On Merril.
"but by the quest's end,"
Here, let me fix that for you.
"but by the quest's beginning,"
There you go. Next.
On Dwarf and Isabella.
I paid about as much attention to DA2 as the junior-writer fanfiction that comprised most of it warranted.
I gave Isabella a reluctant pass because while I had nothing bad to say about her, I had nothing particularly good to say either. "She's substantial" I said. It's the sort of abstract and imprecise praise you give to someone who is in no way praiseworthy. Then you hope to hell that nobody asks you to get specific.
I just realized something reading through all these rants. Now, here we have people basically agreeing with Susan about how DA2's characters were excellently made and rememberable. And then others that disagree completely because they thought they were completely forgetable and unlikeable.
Now I throw myself into the people who actually liked DA2, Mostly because there were characters in there who were personable. People who had lives and backstories, and reasons for the quests they give. But, thats not what I'm getting at here.
What I realized is that everyone in the world is different right? But so are the characters in the game. Everyone is going either like/dislike certin characters depending on the person they are themselves. I see people here posting that mostly everyone hated Anders, but yet I see and know people who liked him. Me personally, I hated his constant whining. for freedom from the Templars! But yet, I bet you 20$ that anyone who has experienced anything about the slave trade that's happening in the world today, they'd like Anders a whole lot more.
For example, I'll bring up my favorite set of characters, Varric and Isabella. I loved these two. They were funny, bantering, and always had something good to say. I realized not too long ago I have two best friends that are EXACTLY like these two. One is a guy who'd always stick up for me and have my back, While the other, (sadly an ex-gf of mine) is ironically a sailor, and loves nothing more then freedom and making her own choices. But yet, put these two in the same room together and instant hilarity!
The point I'm trying to make is, wheather or not you like these characters, is all dependant on you, your experiences, how you were brought up, and most importantly,
YOUR OWN CHARACTER.
Now I throw myself into the people who actually liked DA2, Mostly because there were characters in there who were personable. People who had lives and backstories, and reasons for the quests they give. But, thats not what I'm getting at here.
What I realized is that everyone in the world is different right? But so are the characters in the game. Everyone is going either like/dislike certin characters depending on the person they are themselves. I see people here posting that mostly everyone hated Anders, but yet I see and know people who liked him. Me personally, I hated his constant whining. for freedom from the Templars! But yet, I bet you 20$ that anyone who has experienced anything about the slave trade that's happening in the world today, they'd like Anders a whole lot more.
For example, I'll bring up my favorite set of characters, Varric and Isabella. I loved these two. They were funny, bantering, and always had something good to say. I realized not too long ago I have two best friends that are EXACTLY like these two. One is a guy who'd always stick up for me and have my back, While the other, (sadly an ex-gf of mine) is ironically a sailor, and loves nothing more then freedom and making her own choices. But yet, put these two in the same room together and instant hilarity!
The point I'm trying to make is, wheather or not you like these characters, is all dependant on you, your experiences, how you were brought up, and most importantly,
YOUR OWN CHARACTER.
I'd disagree with this article as I do remember some characters in my experiences with the TES (The Elder Scrolls) games. No I don't remember their names, but their character stands out in their actions and involvement in quests: Remember the woman that got robbed in Morrowind, but wants you to give her glove to her robber to show her love? Remember The crazy Wood elf in Oblivion that thought people were watching him, hires you to spy on other people, and would go insane by killing people with a battle axe if you encourage his paranoia? How about the Orc librarian in Skyrim's Winterhold academy that constantly reminds you to not mess with his books, yet shows respect when you become an Arch-mage?
I know a lot of characters repeat themselves in a TES game, but there is some definition to the quest givers that--while not revealed as bluntly as a character in a Bioware game--do distinguish the Orc librarian from an Orc battle-mage found in a dungeon across the map. Its like saying Samus Aran (from Metroid) has no character when you don't consider her background as a bounty hunter, how she got her suit, or her skill in combat.
I know a lot of characters repeat themselves in a TES game, but there is some definition to the quest givers that--while not revealed as bluntly as a character in a Bioware game--do distinguish the Orc librarian from an Orc battle-mage found in a dungeon across the map. Its like saying Samus Aran (from Metroid) has no character when you don't consider her background as a bounty hunter, how she got her suit, or her skill in combat.
Dragon Age 2 is a questionable choice.
If she had suggested Origins then I could actually read this without cringing.
Varric is the only likeable character in DA2. :| I couldn't even look at Aveline most of the time because of her ridiculous chin.
I remember loads of the side characters from Morrowind and Oblivion but I would be hard pressed to make my brain come up with one of those many runaway mages that eventually turn to blood magic...and yet still expect you to defend them. :|
If she had suggested Origins then I could actually read this without cringing.
Varric is the only likeable character in DA2. :| I couldn't even look at Aveline most of the time because of her ridiculous chin.
I remember loads of the side characters from Morrowind and Oblivion but I would be hard pressed to make my brain come up with one of those many runaway mages that eventually turn to blood magic...and yet still expect you to defend them. :|
I love Shale. LOVE. Any opportunity for more Shale is fine by me.Nannernade said:I think it'd be funny if our bulking friend Shale made an appearance in Skyrim, just randomly killing chickens on farms ha ha, I'm sure the Companions of Jorrvaskar would be called in to take care of her.
For people saying that they really hated DA 2 characters, I'm curious - what class did you play? (This is about characters only, not about the gameplay.) I wonder if there's any correlation between people's enjoyment of the game (or at least with regards to the characters and story) and the class they chose.
But that's my point: there have been plenty of protagonists who are like that. Shit, pretty much all superhero comics go through that story arc at some point or another. Super-powered beings are practically obligated by some sort of trans-dimensional contract to worry about harming their normal significant other with their powers.Candidus said:
You can say what Twilight "boils down to" for any number of things, but that doesn't make them inherently bad.
Mhm. Unfortunately, smug witticisms that avoid addressing criticism won't get you very far in...well, anything, internet discussions included.Candidus said:
Got any better responses?
So...you were being condescending towards it from the start? How could you make that sort of judgment before you even played the game?Candidus said:
Yes...and I'm starting to think that you're not entirely clear what 'substantial' means. Possessing a good deal of substance is a compliment, mate.Candidus said:
*facepalm*Candidus said:
I think what you're looking for is something like, "Oh, she has a great...personality. And nice hair." But then again, those are compliments you give when you can't praise a person's looks. From the sound of it, you were trying to come up with something like 'mediocre.'
Why? Because you can't come up with anything specific and negative to say? That's the message I'm getting. All you've offered so far is self-satisfied snark and vague allusions to complaints that you never actually explain. Is there anything substantive that you can show me?Candidus said:
Aw, hell. Does that mean that we're going to have a '300'-esque pit filled with the skeletons of failed Skyrim/DA2 offspring? I can only imagine the horrifying creations that would result.Susan Arendt said:Shhhh...we're dealing with selective breeding, here.Char-Nobyl said:
"Egad! This one has nothing but Frostbite Spiders and Broodmothers for enemies! Into the pit with ye, nightmare simulator!"