The slut issue

[the_dude_abides]

Its funny how only women are sluts isn't it? Men are 'players' or studs. Its like how a large section of young men in my culture find NOTHING wrong with sleeping with loads of women yet want to marry a virgin.

Hypocrites REALLY annoy me.

 

[Sparrow]

I find people who need to call others `sluts` are usually insecure.

It's an insult.
You can hum and ha about it, but that's what it is.
Not only that, it's a fucking stupid insult.
It suggests that women, (whether they want sex or not) are supposed to make sex `difficult` to obtain.

How about the next time you feel you need to label someone as such, you just keep your mouth shut. I am certain your head will not explode.

Why is everyone assuming "sluts" refers to women? I get that for the most part only women are called it (yeah yeah, sexism is a *****, we get it) but it's not helping that everyone in this thread is just assuming that the OP meant a woman. At no point the OP say "why can't we call women sluts?" Isn't it presumptuous to assume he meant women, opposed to women and men?

Nope, you never successfully connected that since I never said anything about always assuming the more negative connotation. You never showed where I actually suggested it.

I explained it all in the earlier post. Connected the dots and all. Whether or not you choose to ignore it as not being enough is up to you.

No dots at all that showed me actually saying that. So I guess the final verdict is just dishonest.

...isn't this thread just you two arguing now? Can't you take this shit flinging to PMs instead of blocking this thread up?

 

[Phasmal]

I find people who need to call others `sluts` are usually insecure.

It's an insult.
You can hum and ha about it, but that's what it is.
Not only that, it's a fucking stupid insult.
It suggests that women, (whether they want sex or not) are supposed to make sex `difficult` to obtain.

How about the next time you feel you need to label someone as such, you just keep your mouth shut. I am certain your head will not explode.

Why is everyone assuming "sluts" refers to women? I get that for the most part only women are called it (yeah yeah, sexism is a *****, we get it) but it's not helping that everyone in this thread is just assuming that the OP meant a woman. At no point the OP say "why can't we call women sluts?" Isn't it presumptuous to assume he meant women, opposed to women and men?

Men simply don't really get called it, and when they do, there is not the same stigma attatched.
Either way it's still a fucking stupid insult.

 

[MagunBFP]

Its funny how only women are sluts isn't it? Men are 'players' or studs. Its like how a large section of young men in my culture find NOTHING wrong with sleeping with loads of women yet want to marry a virgin.

Hypocrites REALLY annoy me.

You actually know guys who specifically want to marry a virgin? I never understood that, if I'm going to been with a single woman to divorce do us part I would prefer knowing that, among other things, we're on the same page sexually.

As far as I'm aware though men celebrate other men's sexual achievements publically, whether personally the think well of it or not, but women don't have the same opinion. They perfer that the man they sleep with hasn't touched another woman, that they are the one and only and there have been no other sexual partners before them...

 

[Sparrow]

I find people who need to call others `sluts` are usually insecure.

It's an insult.
You can hum and ha about it, but that's what it is.
Not only that, it's a fucking stupid insult.
It suggests that women, (whether they want sex or not) are supposed to make sex `difficult` to obtain.

How about the next time you feel you need to label someone as such, you just keep your mouth shut. I am certain your head will not explode.

Why is everyone assuming "sluts" refers to women? I get that for the most part only women are called it (yeah yeah, sexism is a *****, we get it) but it's not helping that everyone in this thread is just assuming that the OP meant a woman. At no point the OP say "why can't we call women sluts?" Isn't it presumptuous to assume he meant women, opposed to women and men?

Men simply don't really get called it, and when they do, there is not the same stigma attatched.
Either way it's still a fucking stupid insult.

Maybe things are different where you come from, but slut shaming is frowned upon in England. I know that's not exactly what you said, but I think it relates quite neatly. It's not that people have started calling men sluts, it's that people have stopped giving a shit if a woman gets laid more than a guy does. I think a lot of the people in this thread either don't visit the outside world much or live in the 20th century. Equality has existed for a long time now, it's just a minority that keep fucking it up for the majority of normal, non-sexist folks. If anything, this thread is proof of that.

 

[Phasmal]

Maybe things are different where you come from, but slut shaming is frowned upon in England. I know that's not exactly what you said, but I think it relates quite neatly. It's not that people have started calling men sluts, it's that people have stopped giving a shit if a woman gets laid more than a guy does. I think a lot of the people in this thread either don't visit the outside world much or live in the 20th century. Equality has existed for a long time now, it's just a minority that keep fucking it up for the majority of normal, non-sexist folks. If anything, this thread is proof of that.

Uh, well... I'm English.
And slut shaming sure happens here.
People still care about that sort of thing.
Maybe it's cause I hang out with quite a lot of blokey dudes but yeah, dudes brag about sex, ladies are not supposed to.

 

[Treblaine]

We managed for centuries without a specific term for men who have sex often, we don't need a special one for women. And slut IS used against women, it's only ironically and ineffectively used against men.

Actually there's plenty of terms for men that mean generally "someone who sleeps around": stud, player, playboy, ladies man, lady killer, etc. and all of them are used with a positive connotation (and I actually can't think of a negative one other that doesn't tack a male adjective in front of "slut" or "whore").

That was my point from the wider discussion, the lack of negative equivalent.

 

[scw55]

Because society has the presumption that when you use the word slut it means you're referring to a woman.
It is a sexist term as a result.

Saying "Man-Slut" is also sexist because it reinforces the association with slut to being a term for women.

Likewise for 'whore' or 'hooker'. It's society that makes them sexist terms. So it's society that makes them bad words.

-

I use slut for both men and women. I dislike words that change depending on gender.
I use Actor for both male and female actors for examples.

It's interesting how sexist language is. But it's only sexist because people use it in a sexist manner.

 

[Sparrow]

Maybe things are different where you come from, but slut shaming is frowned upon in England. I know that's not exactly what you said, but I think it relates quite neatly. It's not that people have started calling men sluts, it's that people have stopped giving a shit if a woman gets laid more than a guy does. I think a lot of the people in this thread either don't visit the outside world much or live in the 20th century. Equality has existed for a long time now, it's just a minority that keep fucking it up for the majority of normal, non-sexist folks. If anything, this thread is proof of that.

Uh, well... I'm English.
And slut shaming sure happens here.
People still care about that sort of thing.
Maybe it's cause I hang out with quite a lot of blokey dudes but yeah, dudes brag about sex, ladies are not supposed to.

Hang out with different people.

 

[Treblaine]

Lying is always an absolute? Give me 100 people and then ask them is President Clinton had "sexual relations" with that woman, Miss Lowinski, and I very much doubt you will get 100% agreement on if he did or didn't... or maybe ask those 100 people just how far you would have to be before you were cheating on your partner and many different people would have different opinions... you could almost say the line is arbitrarily drawn.

If all women use slut to keep other women as prisoners to society then I pity them, that is an endless cycle of victimisation you are all perpetuating... maybe one day some good men will come along and set you free from these cruel expections you've been damned to try to live up to. All taunting aside, if you do something because you think it makes you more attractive or socially acceptible then you need help. The right thing is the right thing and no ones opinion of you matters more then your own, but I can say that I live the charmed life of the White, 30-ish, middle-class, decently educated, Male... in otherwords I'm the devil who has kept everyone else in chains and submission.

For the record I agree judging a vandal for destroying someone else's property is not bad, but its no different from judging a heroin addict who is only affecting themself, nor is it any different from judging a polygamous couple for having an open relationship...

The subtext is confusing... some women want other women, some men are very submissive and other women are either consumed with self-loathing or want to be seen as victims so they can rise above their male oppressors

Lying is claiming what is contrary to what you KNOW to be true. Being unsure about what actually happened and saying what is not true is not lying.

You should pity these women, women who as a group break out of this convention of "Slut labels negative power" never go back to it.

They aren't perpetuating this, most media is written, created and produced by men. Women are far too dependent on the approval of men who use the slut ideology.

"I agree judging a vandal for destroying someone else's property is not bad, but its no different from judging a heroin addict who is only affecting themself"

I don't judge drug addicts, I help them with the afflictions they wish they were rid of and hold no animosity to them or think they are deserving of any shame. I can understand they may have some self-created regret as their chemical habit needs higher and higher doses for smaller effects.

There is no confusion in the subtext... you are merely OBFUSCATING the non-issue.

Please don't turn this into a "ohh, poor mee" as if this is some persecution against men just because the slut-term isn't perpetuated by women.

 

[Angie7F]

Hold on a sec...Am I the only one here that would be offended if i was called a liar and cheater as much as I would be if called a slut?


Even if we were using such word when referring to a person that was not present at that time, I still would whoever that stated that another person was as liar/ cheater/ slut was very shallow because most lying/ cheating/ sleeping around is a subjective notion.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Because the intent behind it is not to state the obvious but to be insulting. I don't believe I have to spell it out: intent matters. You can intellectualise all the insults hurled around, and come to the conclusion that they aren't insulting. At the same time, that's missing a lot of the context.

It can both. Like calling someone a liar or cheater. Those are obviously negative characteristics like "slut". I won't let society subjugate me into not stating the obvious. If it hurts their feelings maybe they need to look into a mirror. Because if a word describing your behavior hurts your feelings you have only yourself to blame.

This is not to say calling someone a slut is always justified as some people have rather "conservative" standards on that subject. But it's the same with everything. People get called liars or cheaters unfairly quite often as well.

the reason that slut is considered a harsh thing to call someone is because the implication is that they are a bad person for enjoying sex. Which simply isn't the case. Hurting people deliberately (emotionally or physically) so you can get laid, does make you a bad person (unless your involved in BDSM and it's all consensual). Enjoying sex is not a bad thing. Having a lot of sex is not a bad thing as long as your sensible and stay safe. That is why you don't call someone a slut. It is not "Stating the obvious".

 

[fuzz]

Being a stud is hard.
Being a slut is easy.

There's nothing wrong with women sleeping around. However they're often too stupid to take a pill everyday, so they get pregnant and keep the kid. Now the man's got to foot the bill for 18 years for a kid he never wanted. Who knows, he might not even be the father because she slept around so much. In situations like this the word slut works pretty well.

Just calling a woman a slut because she enjoys promiscuous safe sex is unnecessary.

 

[MagunBFP]

Lying is always an absolute? Give me 100 people and then ask them is President Clinton had "sexual relations" with that woman, Miss Lowinski, and I very much doubt you will get 100% agreement on if he did or didn't... or maybe ask those 100 people just how far you would have to be before you were cheating on your partner and many different people would have different opinions... you could almost say the line is arbitrarily drawn.

If all women use slut to keep other women as prisoners to society then I pity them, that is an endless cycle of victimisation you are all perpetuating... maybe one day some good men will come along and set you free from these cruel expections you've been damned to try to live up to. All taunting aside, if you do something because you think it makes you more attractive or socially acceptible then you need help. The right thing is the right thing and no ones opinion of you matters more then your own, but I can say that I live the charmed life of the White, 30-ish, middle-class, decently educated, Male... in otherwords I'm the devil who has kept everyone else in chains and submission.

For the record I agree judging a vandal for destroying someone else's property is not bad, but its no different from judging a heroin addict who is only affecting themself, nor is it any different from judging a polygamous couple for having an open relationship...

The subtext is confusing... some women want other women, some men are very submissive and other women are either consumed with self-loathing or want to be seen as victims so they can rise above their male oppressors

Lying is claiming what is contrary to what you KNOW to be true. Being unsure about what actually happened and saying what is not true is not lying.

You should pity these women, women who as a group break out of this convention of "Slut labels negative power" never go back to it.

They aren't perpetuating this, most media is written, created and produced by men. Women are far too dependent on the approval of men who use the slut ideology.

"I agree judging a vandal for destroying someone else's property is not bad, but its no different from judging a heroin addict who is only affecting themself"

I don't judge drug addicts, I help them with the afflictions they wish they were rid of and hold no animosity to them or think they are deserving of any shame. I can understand they may have some self-created regret as their chemical habit needs higher and higher doses for smaller effects.

There is no confusion in the subtext... you are merely OBFUSCATING the non-issue.

Please don't turn this into a "ohh, poor mee" as if this is some persecution against men just because the slut-term isn't perpetuated by women.

First of all, my point about lying was that it is a matter of record the ex-President Clinton was fellated by by Miss Lewinsky. That being said whether that is sex is to alot of people a matter of interpretation. It all depends on if you believe oral sex is actual sex. If you do then he lied, if you do then he didn't. That is why the truth is not always absolute.

"women who as a group break out of this convention of "Slut labels negative power" never go back to it."

I was under the impression that you were saying all women were controlled by men and forced to obey their views of women having sex is bad... unless its with them... in which case the sex is good but the woman is bad... but if women can break out of this convention and not be forced back into it then who exactly is binding them to the archaic value system? The men who are controlling them, but not controlling them enough to stop them from breaking free? The other women who just want to keep all other women in their place? Or is there another group who is keeping them brow beaten and submissive?

As for your point on drug addicts, I see no reason to with hold help or assistance from anyone, but I'm not going to say, and I hope you're not going to defend, the obvious intentional self-destructive path they set for themselves.

As to me clouding the subtext, you may see it as obfuscation, I see it as adding dimensions to your own arguement. Its not as black and white as you've stated it. Men aren't the enemy, I have enough on my plate controlling everything in my own life, I have neither the interest nor the inclination to start dicating what standards women need to live up or down to.

 

[Legion]

Being a stud is hard.
Being a slut is easy.

There's nothing wrong with women sleeping around. However they're often too stupid to take a pill everyday, so they get pregnant and keep the kid. Now the man's got to foot the bill for 18 years for a kid he never wanted. Who knows, he might not even be the father because she slept around so much. In situations like this the word slut works pretty well.

Just calling a woman a slut because she enjoys promiscuous safe sex is unnecessary.

I know right, god forbid the guy accept responsibility and make sure she takes the pill, or wear a condom. Or demand a paternity test should she claim it is his.

But no, it's all the woman's fault.

I won't respond to your first two lines, because I rather like having a clean record.

 

[fuzz]

Being a stud is hard.
Being a slut is easy.

There's nothing wrong with women sleeping around. However they're often too stupid to take a pill everyday, so they get pregnant and keep the kid. Now the man's got to foot the bill for 18 years for a kid he never wanted. Who knows, he might not even be the father because she slept around so much. In situations like this the word slut works pretty well.

Just calling a woman a slut because she enjoys promiscuous safe sex is unnecessary.

I know right, god forbid the guy accept responsibility and make sure she takes the pill, or wear a condom. Or demand a paternity test should she claim it is his.

But no, it's all the woman's fault.

I won't respond to your first two lines, because I rather like having a clean record.

A man can't demand a paternity test, the woman needs to consent. Meaning paternity fraud is very hard to combat.

Women can lie about being on the pill believe it or not. Women also have loads of other options for contraception while men just have condoms. Women can have abortions freeing them from motherhood, men have no such option. Men can be forced to be fathers by women and the government makes sure they pay for their mistake. That's all there is to it. Claiming equal responsibility when women hold all the cards is ridiculous.

 

[Legion]

Being a stud is hard.
Being a slut is easy.

There's nothing wrong with women sleeping around. However they're often too stupid to take a pill everyday, so they get pregnant and keep the kid. Now the man's got to foot the bill for 18 years for a kid he never wanted. Who knows, he might not even be the father because she slept around so much. In situations like this the word slut works pretty well.

Just calling a woman a slut because she enjoys promiscuous safe sex is unnecessary.

I know right, god forbid the guy accept responsibility and make sure she takes the pill, or wear a condom. Or demand a paternity test should she claim it is his.

But no, it's all the woman's fault.

I won't respond to your first two lines, because I rather like having a clean record.

A man can't demand a paternity test, the woman needs to consent. Meaning paternity fraud is very hard to combat.

Women can lie about being on the pill believe it or not. Women also have loads of other options for contraception while men just have condoms. Women can have abortions freeing them from motherhood, men have no such option. Men can be forced to be fathers by women and the government makes sure they pay for their mistake. That's all there is to it. Claiming equal responsibility when women hold all the cards is ridiculous.

You are wrong about the first one, or rather, your context is.

If a woman wants to claim a man to be the father to her child then the man is entitled to ask for a paternity test. Should the woman refuse then she has no basis for her claim, therefore she'd have no right to demand the man support her.

So yes, she can refuse, but the man will then have the right to say "There is no proof that the baby is mine, therefore I have no obligation to look after it".

If you do not believe this to be true, nor that the law would support the man in this scenario then you are deluded.

As for the second point, I do not see how having more options makes the responsibility on the woman's behalf. It doesn't matter if the man only has condoms or not, the choice is still his whether or not he has sex with a woman or not, and if he is willing to trust her to use contraception should a condom not be available.

He can always say no if he doesn't have a condom and doesn't trust the girl. If he does trust her and gets screwed over, well then that's his fault for making a poor judgement and offloading the responsibility onto her.

Again, if you think that this means the guy shouldn't have to have responsibility in regards to whether he has sex or not, you are deluded.

 

[Womplord]

I think that anyone who has sex with lots of random people is worthy of negative judgement. It's destabilizing for society.

 

[fuzz]

Being a stud is hard.
Being a slut is easy.

There's nothing wrong with women sleeping around. However they're often too stupid to take a pill everyday, so they get pregnant and keep the kid. Now the man's got to foot the bill for 18 years for a kid he never wanted. Who knows, he might not even be the father because she slept around so much. In situations like this the word slut works pretty well.

Just calling a woman a slut because she enjoys promiscuous safe sex is unnecessary.

I know right, god forbid the guy accept responsibility and make sure she takes the pill, or wear a condom. Or demand a paternity test should she claim it is his.

But no, it's all the woman's fault.

I won't respond to your first two lines, because I rather like having a clean record.

A man can't demand a paternity test, the woman needs to consent. Meaning paternity fraud is very hard to combat.

Women can lie about being on the pill believe it or not. Women also have loads of other options for contraception while men just have condoms. Women can have abortions freeing them from motherhood, men have no such option. Men can be forced to be fathers by women and the government makes sure they pay for their mistake. That's all there is to it. Claiming equal responsibility when women hold all the cards is ridiculous.

You are wrong about the first one, or rather, your context is.

If a woman wants to claim a man to be the father to her child then the man is entitled to ask for a paternity test. Should the woman refuse then she has no basis for her claim, therefore she'd have no right to demand the man support her.

So yes, she can refuse, but the man will then have the right to say "There is no proof that the baby is mine, therefore I have no obligation to look after it".

If you do not believe this to be true, nor that the law would support the man in this scenario then you are deluded.

As for the second point, I do not see how having more options makes the responsibility on the woman's behalf. It doesn't matter if the man only has condoms or not, the choice is still his whether or not he has sex with a woman or not, and if he is willing to trust her to use contraception should a condom not be available.

He can always say no if he doesn't have a condom and doesn't trust the girl. If he does trust her and gets screwed over, well then that's his fault for making a poor judgement and offloading the responsibility onto her.

Again, if you think that this means the guy shouldn't have to have responsibility in regards to whether he has sex or not, you are deluded.

When a woman can choose to have an abortion and be celebrated as 'pro choice' and a man has to live with her decision, she bears greater responsibility. The choice to have sex is a 50/50 split. Saying it's a man's fault if a woman lies about being on the pill is disgusting. That's the same mentality that blames women for getting raped. But I get it, women can do no wrong.

 

[Lionsfan]

I still think my suggestion of calling them Schwinns is the best.

I'll defend this idea with my life.

Schwinns are stupid. Bianchi Bicycles 4 lyfe!!!!!11!!!